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Author Topic: ECL xp?  (Read 2383 times)

INSTINCT92

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ECL xp?
« on: August 22, 2011, 04:07:01 PM »
Just wanted to clear this up I suppose. With the ECL of a Drow you loose 2 levels max. And yes you get he bonus int and cha.. but also level up 'alot' more slowly from what i've experienced, doing a hell of a lot over a few days and getting no where near level 3...

Is losing the levels not enough? Or is this the intended penatly, it seems a bit heavy since it takes a long while to level usually. Just wanted to see on here...

 :hide:

HellsPanda

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 04:09:28 PM »
ECL races gain alot of power, and you count as 2 levels higher than what you are. So you need to be patient. And find the other drow and group up/RP. Your never going to get anywhere solo as an ECL race

Badelaire

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 04:15:09 PM »
I have a Zenythri cleric of Hoar. He's an ECL 5 PC but only counts as a level 2 cleric. Now that's tough going <.<

Taty

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 04:21:49 PM »
ECL races gain a lot of power, and you count as 2 levels higher than what you are. So you need to be patient. And find the other drow and group up/RP. Your never going to get anywhere solo as an ECL race

From what I can tell there is Fax at lvl 20, Liv at lvl 8 a monk at lvl 4 and a bunch of level 2's that are active. There is a reason drow don't last. In the old days it was easier to level (by easier I mean doable), now it's really hard. Dropping ecl to one might be worth considering.

 Many of the advantages drow get are sabotaged. Darkness without ultravision, stat bonuses that only count for spells but not crafting or skill points, and of course the magic resistance (the only one worth talking about though not very relevant until higher level) .

 This is offset by numerous penalties. Hated by everyone, a small population to work with, limited places one can be raised, not to mention all natural habitat is too difficult to hang out in, even getting to the drain is difficult, your only place of refuge. When rp xp was more meaningful this was easier to offset. At 2nd lvl you need to be fighting Shadowfiends, tough beetles or wererats to get minimal xp. If you are lucky you might once in awhile find some non racist humans to hang out with, but really any self respecting drow would rather work with other drow or some subservient race (good luck with that). I'm not saying changes have to be made but in light of all the recent xp changes that have been made could the ecl at least be considered for review ?

~Taty~
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:42:58 PM by Taty »

HellsPanda

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 04:26:34 PM »
I disagree, the ECL is easily overcome, iit will just take longer to get started.

ECL races more than anyone else, are dependant upon teamwork, Drow dont only have to play with drow, try to enslave some Caliban? or other chars?

Exordium

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 04:30:31 PM »
Drow's spell resistance is so powerful that being ECL 2 is in my books not enough for them. They also have no special weaknesses aside of their personality and needing years to get used to sunlight.

So you're off pretty good, honestly. ;)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 04:33:51 PM by DM Exordium »

Chaszmyr

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 04:59:26 PM »
Drow dont only have to play with drow, try to enslave some Caliban? or other chars?

Close to what I did. <.< I definitely hit the experience penalty faster than anyone else (in terms of how far through the level I progressed), but the benefits ARE very nice. The int/cha bonuses are strong, the SR is godlike, and you don't require ultravision in order to benefit from darkness at all - still has plenty of confusion/escape utility even if you can't see in it either.

If ECL experience works how I think it does, and you count as two levels higher for the purpose of experience, then really, the pain is mostly frontloaded - going from 2-3 will take you about twice as much as anyone else, but once you are a bit higher up, an extra 2,000 experience per level isn't quite as painful when you're already in need of thousands upon thousands.

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There is a reason drow don't last.

There is a reason that not everyone is level 20. If someone is dedicated enough to make it to 20, then a drow trying to make theoretical level 22 isn't that much more of a far cry to me. My guess would that drow simply have a higher mortality rate based on what they are and how they act, or people apply for it and get disillusioned with the roleplay and give it up... Not that their amazing bonuses are somehow falsely advertised.
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HellsPanda

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2011, 05:03:22 PM »
Well the primary thing you need for Darkness to work wonders, is Blind Fighting.
SR will be good if you fight similiar leveled casters, then it creates around roughly a 50% to ignore the spell before saves

Exordium

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2011, 05:12:16 PM »
Well the primary thing you need for Darkness to work wonders, is Blind Fighting.
SR will be good if you fight similiar leveled casters, then it creates around roughly a 50% to ignore the spell before saves

Practically 30% chance to ignore with PCs and some monsters.

Avatar6666

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2011, 06:33:25 PM »
Well the primary thing you need for Darkness to work wonders, is Blind Fighting.
SR will be good if you fight similiar leveled casters, then it creates around roughly a 50% to ignore the spell before saves

Practically 30% chance to ignore with PCs and some monsters.

Speaking of that, does Monk's SR stackw ith that??


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ethinos

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2011, 06:37:39 PM »
SR doesn't stack.
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Telkar

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2011, 06:49:32 PM »
Fey'ri is ECL 3, even though in PnP they should be able to alter self and other things. Should be ECL 2 like drow, +1/10 DR, 10 fire resistance and +2 int seems pretty much as powerful as what drow have.

Nemien Callishan

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2011, 07:09:21 PM »
Just wanted to clear this up I suppose. With the ECL of a Drow you loose 2 levels max. And yes you get he bonus int and cha.. but also level up 'alot' more slowly from what i've experienced, doing a hell of a lot over a few days and getting no where near level 3...

Is losing the levels not enough? Or is this the intended penatly, it seems a bit heavy since it takes a long while to level usually. Just wanted to see on here...

 :hide:

You don't lose two levels. ECL +2 means that all the stuff you're getting means you count as being two levels higher. Which is why you're levelling slower. Because with an ECL of +2 you need 6000xp for level 2 and 10,000 for level 3, rather than 1000 for level 2 and 3000 for level 3 (and then 6000 for level 4). You're essentialy starting with a level 3 character already (with 2 levels of "racial booster stuff" and 1 level of your chosen class). Given that POTM starts you off at level 2 you're essentialy starting with a level 4 character with no xp who thereore has a debt to work off to get to level 5 (3 on the character sheet).

Hopefuly it's not a bug and it's working as intended. However if it is being buggy then I'm just glad I'm not playing any ECL races :).

Drow's spell resistance is so powerful that being ECL 2 is in my books not enough for them. They also have no special weaknesses aside of their personality and needing years to get used to sunlight.

They're also supposed to be very rare. The very rare creatures altogether between them made up about 2% of the old encounter charts. And drow are not the only form of creature in the very rare category. What puts me off is the various Forgotten Realms adventures which have hoardes of them attacking villages on the surface as if they're plentiful. They also don't generaly exist outside Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms. Whilst having one sucked into Ravenloft is all well and good theyh aren't exactly plentiful outside it. There do seem to be a disproportionate ammount of them on the server at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 07:16:50 PM by Nemien Callishan »

Nemien Callishan

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2011, 07:21:34 PM »
There is a reason that not everyone is level 20. If someone is dedicated enough to make it to 20, then a drow trying to make theoretical level 22 isn't that much more of a far cry to me. My guess would that drow simply have a higher mortality rate based on what they are and how they act, or people apply for it and get disillusioned with the roleplay and give it up... Not that their amazing bonuses are somehow falsely advertised.

I'm fairly sure +2ECL with a level 20 limmit means they're capped at level 18. The ECL actualy counts towards their total level. It just doesn't give them extra hit dice or saving throws or anything (unless they get racial hit dice).

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2011, 07:35:03 PM »
Drow is more or less a semi/half MPC.

They are odd looking, hated among most Faerunites even and often pray to strange gods. Their whole culture is a problem and their female dominance is something not many can understand. More or less, a captured drow is pretty much a dead drow. So even if their powers seem to be worth more then the mere ECL + 2 they pay, their RP situation is limited and harsh.

I have two drows yes, but im not really defending their ECL cause of that. I love playing a race that cannot openly stroll around like it's wonderful weather, lightly gossiping openly.

And yes, I also believe ECL restricts the char to not be lvl 20. The Drow example is a maximum level of 18 thanks to NWNs restrictions I believe.

Exordium

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 07:37:54 PM »
NWN has no restriction to this. ECL is a custom thing.

Budly

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 07:40:11 PM »
NWN has no restriction to this. ECL is a custom thing.

Ah, my bad then.

Do NWN in itself even have a ECL system? I believe not then if its custom thing here and I presume custom from scratch?  :)

Nemien Callishan

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 08:07:03 PM »
NWN has no restriction to this. ECL is a custom thing.

Ah, my bad then.

Do NWN in itself even have a ECL system? I believe not then if its custom thing here and I presume custom from scratch?  :)

NWN "should" have ECl but it doesn't. So it has to be manualy& artificialy done. NWN2 has ECL. ECL was core rules before NWN came out.

Chaszmyr

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 08:24:12 PM »
Its totally custom here. Base NWN exp is garbage.

Quote
And yes, I also believe ECL restricts the char to not be lvl 20. The Drow example is a maximum level of 18 thanks to NWNs restrictions I believe.

Vampires are ECL 6 (right?) and I've seen a level 16 Morticia Corpori, so I assume that it doesn't cap you at ( 20 - ECL ).
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ethinos

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 08:31:23 PM »
MPCs get a level cap of 20 minus half their ECL. Not sure about ECL for subraces, though.
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Chaszmyr

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 08:39:56 PM »
Aha, well then. Drow maxing at 19 isn't bad if that holds for subraces.
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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2011, 03:48:30 AM »
NWNx is supposed to fix this, if I recall, making the subrace stats apply as more than just perma-buffs


Chaszmyr

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2011, 04:36:00 AM »
Yup. Woe betide anyone who took an elven race with an int penalty and laughed that they kept the skill points on level. <.<
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Budly

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 05:11:32 AM »
Aha, well then. Drow maxing at 19 isn't bad if that holds for subraces.

Im pretty confident it is 18 and not 19.

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Re: ECL xp?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 05:34:12 AM »
If it follows the MPC scheme of 'Half the ECL subtracted' that has been put forward earlier in the thread, then no, it would be 19. 2 divided by 2 equals 1. Subtract 1 from 20 and you get 19.

Now, if that's wrong, and it's full ECL subtracted for any ECL race/MPC, well, then, yes. 18.
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