Author Topic: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub  (Read 19487 times)

Springer

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #100 on: June 29, 2011, 04:47:59 AM »
Just my opinion, but considering Vallaki. If you ll go into the city itself or southern forest or to the docks, lake Zarovich areas you wont meet many people there aswell. Outskirts is the main gathering point, besides that it is not that different. In the outskirts there is a temple with free healing and raising for money, knuckles for healing tonics mini quest, Lady rest inn which is the best inn for outlanders (which are majority of PC population I think), bounty board (and mink mini quest and bounty office are very close to it aswell, practically at the same location).
With Village the situation is different, yes it has outskirts aswell, an inn, but those are not close to each other. So we have a situation when near Vallaki people know that the outskirts are the meeting point and on top of that it has a place for religious RP, and a place for your average adventurer RP (inn) basicly in one place. In the Port and in the Village even if there would be more then few people they are scattered throughtout the areas and may not even meet each other because of that, there are no meeting point locations.

As for Mist camp, I am actually thinking the situation with it is far from bad. During the peak times there is a good chance to meet high levls to RP with (not only high levels even) and actually I think it is easier to meet people there then in the Port and especially in the Village (which is allmost always empty).
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:51:00 AM by Springer »
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Mrjunkie

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #101 on: June 29, 2011, 06:17:39 AM »
Havnt read to far back due to squabblings.

The idea of expanding the mist camp is great, can offer a complete new hub for the higher levels and a destination/trade point for low/middle level aswell as the existing trading firms.

With crafting facilities, crafting materials 'could' be exported to this central hub as most higher levels posses more money than they know what to do with, could form a gold sink.

Expanding the area would offer some solitude that is missed in the outskirts as it is often a cluster of various rp'ers, each with there own angle, it is often entertaining but more often than not drops into madness.
Smaller tents, social tents, secluded campfires/small camps could be used for the 'visitors' whilst the vistani themselves can reside in their wagons.

I dont really see the value of having herbs/reagents spawning in the encampment as its a sort of middle ground, hidden/lost in the mists.
Perhaps the vistani/long term travellers could offer rumours and snippets of information on the various domains we have, little insights to the politics, inhabitants, old folk tals of the lands. And much as Constantine small rumours of activities in certain domains.

As for the caravans, longest wait is often 5 min, for solo travelers its a pain as you must wait, but as most travel in groups it would not make much difference, if it was visited moreso in time perhaps another caravan would need to be implemented but so far i see no need for it.

Strigoi

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #102 on: June 29, 2011, 10:07:36 AM »
maybe offer enough recreational activities to do in those areas so that if a player is there alone, they are never bored?

i got to be honest though, i never linger in the outskirts. all my characters are barovian and usually either at the Broken bell/Blue Water inn/ or at the Citadel. and usually there are enough barovian players to interact with. my new character Zavier is mostly at the Blue water and the Citadel. one way ive learned to attract players to the Blue water is through IC business (his Publishing Company) and it works pretty well.

non of my characters have ever acted as "big Brother", and i know this is one of the main reasons High levels are trying to be spread out over the server. so i dont consider myself under that demographic. but i do think that Time is a major factor, as people log on with a limited amount of play time, and often have goals they want to accomplish in those play sessions.

i know i tried once with Elton and a cahracter of mine, to make Krofburg our hub. but there just wasnt enough player interaction to keep us interested, and we constantly had to run back to vallaki for things like resources, Banking, etc etc. things that were lacking in that village, that will always be found in Vallaki. i tried the same with my very first Character on this server, and tried to make the village my home, but i had the same problems as Krofburg. waaaaay to long to run back to vallaki to use the bank, when i could just dwell in vallaki.

anyway that is feedback/input from my experiences at trying to "hub" away from Vallaki.

Vaku

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #103 on: June 29, 2011, 11:38:23 AM »
Could people please easen up a bit on the I-know-better-attitude? It's disheartening to read, and I'm sure the torches and pitchforks would come out instantly if we as developers imposed the same attitude. I imagine not many of you have tried building large PWs, so it's not very fitting to lock yourself in the lecturing attitude. And unless we can actually discuss things (as in weighting both sides equally), we are just moving in circles. Don't just tell people how it's going to be like, but bring forward points that might affect how it'll be like.

By personal experience though, I feel the best we can do at this point - where there's lots of arguments for and against - is to acquire some experiences in game. If you want to help with that, try life as a mist-camp hang about for a time, share what you've learned (this will be especially relevant once the new version is up). If you are not up for participating in that, no one is going to hold that against you. We don't want to force anyone in to using the Mist Camp as a hub. We don't force anyone to use the Western Outskirts as a hub either.

Agreed.

(At the end of this long post will be how all this can be applied to the Mist Camp as a mid/high lvl hub.)

Taking some tips from Guild Wars (GW), a game literally made of hubs, there are a few things that every major hub has. (Given this game had thousands of users on at a time and not tens of users, there is still plenty we can learn, and if there's truth in it, it can be applied.)
#1 Is Exclusive Content. This can be anything, it just has to be very unique content from other areas of the game .

     Examples:

     Starting Zones (GW had one Starting Zone at the beginning and it got a huge population, and even after seven or so years with the population diminishing it still retains one of the larger populations. Starting Zones will after all feel like home to most players, and they say more often than not that there is no place better...than home. :3 After the stand alone expansions came out, GW had two more Starting Zones, however the third one is different, and probably not for the better, but that is for another time, however it is important to make note, even these starting Zones resulted in a large population in which long time players would return to mingle and assist newbies.)

     Atmosphere (This is an excellent one all of you here have succeeded at making work. It is what keeps some players in Dementielu while others stay in Barovia, and others in Har'Akir. I would imagine that if Blaustein had more content to it, to match its atmosphere, there would also be players who want to stay there more often. In GW, simply because of the look of an area, players would go to a destination and stay there, if to do nothing else but go AFK and use the area as an energy hungry screen saver.)

     Rewards (This can be monetary, a weapon/armor, consumables or even additional property to your items. As to evidence of the latter reward, there was an area players had to go to upgrade their armor to be "infused". This particular property would allow players to stand a chance against hostile NPC's called the White Mantle. The thing is, the area that this could be done, you would always be able to find people there, if for nothing else, just trying team up to fulfill that property to their armor. Similar to POTM, it is like getting your weapon silver-gilded, only a team effort. As for consumables, every big holiday, the GW staff would throw events, along with the automated quests in which players could go about and earn little consumables that were either, snowballs, cake, fireworks or what have you, however to get these items, you had to visit and participate in activities in the main hubs of the game. For weapons/armor, GW had particular areas one would go to buy the components and the armor, where each of the resulting armor sets had unique looks to them, and improved stats to them. Conveniently enough, these places would be where all the late game major hubs were in GW. For monetary, you would be able to get money rather casually, just playing the game, there were some places you had to earn unique currency, however what I mean most by monetary, is where you would be most inclined to spend your money. And the most worthwhile place to spend your money would be in the late game major hubs. As for what was bought however, that is for a later section.)

#2 Is Activities. This one is far too huge a topic, it needs to have its own number. This, in of itself can be anything, and can be widespread or concentrated for effect.

     Examples:

     Missions/Quests/Overarching Objectives (This particular topic is in large part handled by players and DM's in POTM, however in GW, it was for the most part automated or predestined, and for that reason, players would mingle in an area to complete an objective that was unique to that space alone. However, when factoring in someone like Lizuca, her quest for the casual gathering of five knuckles per pot, her task can be adapted for more worthwhile rewards with of course equal challenges.)

     MORTAL KOMBAT! (What I mean by this is pvp. Guild Wars had two different types of main hubs: The storyline hub and then the pvp hub. Depending on the type of Arena a hub offered, you would see a variation in population. The more agreeable the pvp offered the better rate players would find matches. It was all friendly, though persistent and active competition.)

     Big Purchases (The biggest and most community encouraging purchase a player could make in GW was to buy a Guild Hall and furnish it to its fullest. The activities that purchased opened up to guild members was well worth the price and time and I think, could maybe be adapted to POTM, but with the smaller community as is, I have my doubts.)

---There's more but I've been writing this for awhile and I'm running low on juice, but I am going to post this for you all to consider.

How this can be applied to the Mist Camp: Don't make the Mist Camp a starting zone :) It is a junction, however to make it a better junction, make it to where there are other destinations people will want to travel from/to. The atmosphere of the camp :D everyone is so great at contributing to this aspect. Build it bigger, more spacious, more mist!  More room to experience the awe and mystery and potential trepidation the mists should offer, and fulfill that island idea. Rewards, this has been brought up, and I think, when the Mist Camp is better formed in its revised state, the community can better contribute to this aspect. But whatever the case may be, it needs to be more worthwhile to be at the Mist Camp casually, than to be over at Lizuca with her knuckle potions. And for pvp, the Mist Camp is not the place for it, but arenas are a worthwhile social event. If a dev becomes inspired to make an automated, accessible and interesting platform for competition, it would bring in people to the area the arena is set. For big, interesting purchases, it again, doesn't fit the setting for the Mist Cap, but it is an idea for concentrating players to an area. The more attached on is to their purchase, the more they can customize and feel ownership, the more they'll congregate or show attention to their object.

Anyways, keep up the good posts :D
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 05:40:33 PM by Vaku »

Axra

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #104 on: June 29, 2011, 10:46:41 PM »
GW was such a great game, played for years, and yeah, all the major hubs had something unique to offer which kept players sticking around longer than a brief visit.  I would love to see the mist camp grow into an sprawling Vistani caravan community.  Like several camps joined together to make one large one.  And along with it a bunch of starange new exciting and scary things to discover

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #105 on: June 30, 2011, 04:14:24 AM »
Thank you, all.

The description of the Mist Camp as a junction is spot on. That is the form of hub we hoped it to be.

Regarding features, to have an outset of discussion, these are the current features of the Mist Camp:

- Healer, who can both raise, resurrect as well as cast a number of other curing spells.
- Merchant (with the best available maximum buying price).
- Seer, that'll hint at spawn rates in various areas. We may also expand her abilities to help you locate players.
- Free rest zone.

Once I have the mistway areas implemented, I'm hoping to add a unique form of gathering quest too. At current, we are also considering something akin to an inn, but it needs some delicacy to enhance rather than degrade the mysterious feel of the camp.

Rendrick

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #106 on: June 30, 2011, 10:16:50 AM »
It all sounds good, the seer would be something unique, the improved merchant would keep people returning since fang is a universal need and the healer services are needed for anyone.

As for the Inn, perhaps it's not put in the camp but in the mistway, make it delapidated and the backstory of the mist swallowing the owner & establishment plopping it in it's current location.

Or it could just be a plateau in the misty camp area that is above the mist with a cook, small individual campfires and benchs, couple placeables of kegs and cooking pots. Sort of a designated place they feed the caravan.

Suggestions away!


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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #107 on: June 30, 2011, 10:26:50 AM »
Well, the issue with placing anything in the mistway is that they are notorious for their changing landscape. I could place an inn there, but it would relocate, so I imagine it'll be hard attracting a crowd. It could be a nice gimmick thing though.

What we've considered is perhaps to have the Naiat (Vistani tribe) put up a drinking tent in the Mist Camp. While the Vistani themselves are probably above excess drinking, they never mind making some gold by offering their services. For the Naiat tribe, that is entertainment.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 10:29:43 AM by Zarathustra217 »

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #108 on: June 30, 2011, 10:54:28 AM »
Working off the whole vistani drinking tent, i came up with a rough "Picnic" site area. Sort of an outdoor "Tavern" that would suit the vistani's style caravan style. Sure there's no tent, but it's still pretty mobile. Here's the quick idea screenshot of it. (Because visual aid is better then none!)


"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

Heretic

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #109 on: June 30, 2011, 11:01:13 AM »
Working off the whole vistani drinking tent, i came up with a rough "Picnic" site area. Sort of an outdoor "Tavern" that would suit the vistani's style caravan style. Sure there's no tent, but it's still pretty mobile. Here's the quick idea screenshot of it. (Because visual aid is better then none!)




Apply for developer, we need more area designers, there's a lot to do and new ideas are always fresh.

Cheers.  :)

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #110 on: June 30, 2011, 11:04:23 AM »
Nice!

Listen to Heretic :)

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #111 on: June 30, 2011, 11:05:16 AM »
Oh iadul... I should not of shown that screenshot D:
Fine, but i'll be lazy and ungreatful!

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

hugolino

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #112 on: June 30, 2011, 02:02:37 PM »
What we've considered is perhaps to have the Naiat (Vistani tribe) put up a drinking tent in the Mist Camp. While the Vistani themselves are probably above excess drinking, they never mind making some gold by offering their services. For the Naiat tribe, that is entertainment.

I prefer the notion of an enclosed drinking tent rather than an open picnic area in a Mistway. But I was impressed with the screenshot of that idea nonetheless. It just doesn't seem to fit a Mistway camp to me.

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #113 on: June 30, 2011, 02:08:41 PM »
Well you wouldn't be able to make a drinking tent from the base "Tent" tile, simply due to it's size. Now you could use the asian tea tables for it, and add pillows but it'd take away the Gypsy theme of it slightly too.

Edit: I take that back... Ruins-> Tent interior tile. It's large enough to make what you're looking for.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 04:55:55 PM by Elfric »

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

WildPirate13

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #114 on: July 09, 2011, 10:26:35 AM »
I like the alteration of the mist camp. Is there going to be more?

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #115 on: July 09, 2011, 11:19:43 AM »
I've been looking at the map of Deme, and i can easily invision the new areas. Forest for hunting, the fortified town to the North East of port.... Mayhaps even room for caverns to mine resources. It will provided the place with what people need. Although considerablly smaller then Barovia in areas.

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."

WildPirate13

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #116 on: July 09, 2011, 12:23:03 PM »
*hops up and down like a little girl in glee*

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2011, 12:51:12 PM »
*hops up and down like a little girl in glee*

 <_< Never said i was gonna make it, then again...

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Kenkaku

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2011, 03:37:14 PM »
I like the alteration of the mist camp. Is there going to be more?

This. I love how spacious the Misty Camp is. Though, there are a few little things that can be somewhat annoying.


The transition into the Caravan is pressed a bit too close to the Caravan itself, imo. I rarely find that I can click on it to walk in, and I've had some problems even manually walking into it. Perhaps we could pull back just slightly?

Also, there's a Vistani Man that likes to stand on the stair things that lead into the Merchant Vardo, effectively blocking you from getting in until he feels like wandering off the same as that bloody dog at Tser Pool. Could we do something about these two?


Besides those two things, I really like how it's set up now. Feels much more relaxing and open with all the space to move around.
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Springer

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2011, 04:16:51 PM »
Honestly I hate all of these dogs and chickens wandering around in Tser pool. SOmetimes I just want to cleave every one of them.
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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #120 on: July 10, 2011, 12:37:32 PM »
Any possibility of adding more clan individuality to the varied visiting camps? Flavour text makes it interesting, maybe even with some unique NPC offering some minor play thing only if the right Clan is visiting?

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #121 on: July 10, 2011, 12:41:20 PM »
Any possibility of adding more clan individuality to the varied visiting camps? Flavour text makes it interesting, maybe even with some unique NPC offering some minor play thing only if the right Clan is visiting?

Maybe even what plenty of clans do, each clan having a color pallete to work from to ID them by cloths.

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Dhark

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #122 on: July 10, 2011, 10:03:19 PM »
I'd like to see a old man selling ale/cider/moonshine from a jug & a sausey vistani dancer we can throw coins at !...oh & Cher singing "Gypsies , tramps & thieves"

WildPirate13

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #123 on: July 27, 2011, 11:45:55 AM »
The RP hub I have noticed has not been as active as I would have hoped but maybe its due to the time zones I play in usually. I still notice the majority of rp is happening in the outskirts of Barovia and I do enjoy the mist camp. If the server population would consider moving to the new hub things are more accessible but some things could be improved in both hubs. I think the idea is to have a lowbie hub and a higher level hub. Low level could also move to this hub and to be honest outlanders should move to it as soon as possible, Barovia is not welcoming in many cases.

Things I think that would make things better for many involved and I know have been mentioned are...

 :arrow: Costly transit from the outskirts to the mist camp. This also would help lowbies have more access to the higher end items that are sold in the mist camp and encourage more party grouping. It would also help with the gold sink issue for some.

 :arrow: Blacksmiths... well they have it hard in that area. I do not know of a single vein of ore and coal close to each other.. in Barovia or the port.. I have a great distance to travel to get ore and thats annoying in many ways. My character has a high ocr in addition that causes issues with storage. There is also no silver present I believe. The Dwarven city is the place to be to be a smith...  and that has a heavy draw for many crafters that want to rp and smith.

 :arrow: Healing.. I think someone mentioned before how the Healer cannot raise the dead in the mist camp..

 :arrow: Herbalist in the port or the mist camp. The closest area is Barovia village, which is not that bad but its just a suggestion.

I like the changes to the mist camp giving more room to rp etc. :)


The outskirts as a hub...

I was thinking of the morning lord temple and was reading another post.. about NPC's. The temple could have an extension.. perhaps allowing a more common area and the chapel area?

This would still ensure the temple gave shelter at night and would separate the worshippers from the mercenaries, merchants and hooligans for the most part.  I would like the entrance to the morning lord crypt to lead to the extension not the chapel area. This would seperate liz from the random monsters that come from the lower crypts and help retain chapel rp by reducing interruptions by random running pcs from the crypt.

Just some thoughts.

The mist camp has some very nice features.

Elfric

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Re: Suggestions and comments on the Mist Camp serving as a high level hub
« Reply #124 on: July 27, 2011, 11:59:04 AM »

 :arrow: Herbalist in the port or the mist camp.

Turns out, i found the herbalist in Port-a-Lucine. It's the ktichen in the main Hala hospice, next to the slum trans that leads to the docks. Which leads to the grand bazaar.

People have brought up group renting for housing, and the like. Most support the idea being in Port-a-Lucine, i say those lands need to be extended more. Offering much as Barovia does, but at a higher level. Exactly as the bounties for Port are it's high leve attraction, so should the land surrounding the city. Forest, farmlands, and lakes. All with a nice road to travel, and wild game.  Even a few port NPC estates, like the Jalabert's for RP events.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2011, 12:02:38 PM by Elfric »

"You left the campfire back in the field. The entire grass field is on fire. Smokey the Bear is on the edge of the field, on his knees, sobbing into his hands."