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Author Topic: MPC Types  (Read 13396 times)

The Prophet of Misinformation

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2011, 01:59:22 PM »
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Would a developer be willing to try a hand at this? I know that the cons are quite obvious: I know aMPCs are time consuming to construct, and if we use the vampires as a base, then we're going to have some bug issues at first, but the pros are also quite obvious: liches and vassaliches are pretty wicked.

There are several mechanical issues which serve to obstruct the incorporation of either template. The capacity of the former to quite literally dominate all undead within a circumference of several miles is only the beginning of such troubles. As for the latter, you never know though they are a touch redundant.
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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2011, 03:34:37 PM »
The primary problem with vassaliches is that they have to be bound to an NPC lich. We don't exactly have tons of those, so everyone would just end up having the same master.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2011, 03:38:57 PM »
I think what he means is that ghosts do things like making the walls bleed, creating scary scenes of the past, things like that which a non-DM couldnt do. I am curious as to why playing a ghost would be so exciting. They can't react directly to new stimuli. They only haunt their place of Death. They can't actually effect anything. While I do agree they can be a powerful DM tool, I'm not sure this should be opened to PCs.

Quote
Ghosts would be, in any case, extremely limited AMPCs and their destruction and salient powers are not something that NWN engine makes easy to do, which is why I doubt it's a suitable for a PC.

A ghost can create a Gothic horror atmosphere like few other supernatural creatures.  There are a ton of things you could do when role playing a ghost, you are only limited by your imagination.  Not everything has to be driven by the conventional AC/AB/Saving Throws.  A purely RP creature such as a ghost could be great.  Just walking down a dark alley in Vallaki or Barovia Village and seeing some strange thing flitting past you would be terrific.  The stories you can tell with ghosts are far more intriguing than the "I'm going to eat you!" of some other creatures.  But I can see this isn't going to happen so I'll let it go.  And I do appreciate the limitations of this game engine, you can only do so much with it.
Cheesing is giving your character powers or abilities the game engine doesn't. Far too often, "purely creative RP" is just a euphemism for cheesing. Monster PCs especially need to have powers and abilities that adhere to rules or things get ridiculous rather quickly.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2011, 03:51:56 PM »
 Revenant: could work as an AMPC

Do we have any?

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2011, 03:55:24 PM »
I think what he means is that ghosts do things like making the walls bleed, creating scary scenes of the past, things like that which a non-DM couldnt do. I am curious as to why playing a ghost would be so exciting. They can't react directly to new stimuli. They only haunt their place of Death. They can't actually effect anything. While I do agree they can be a powerful DM tool, I'm not sure this should be opened to PCs.

Quote
Ghosts would be, in any case, extremely limited AMPCs and their destruction and salient powers are not something that NWN engine makes easy to do, which is why I doubt it's a suitable for a PC.

A ghost can create a Gothic horror atmosphere like few other supernatural creatures.  There are a ton of things you could do when role playing a ghost, you are only limited by your imagination.  Not everything has to be driven by the conventional AC/AB/Saving Throws.  A purely RP creature such as a ghost could be great.  Just walking down a dark alley in Vallaki or Barovia Village and seeing some strange thing flitting past you would be terrific.  The stories you can tell with ghosts are far more intriguing than the "I'm going to eat you!" of some other creatures.  But I can see this isn't going to happen so I'll let it go.  And I do appreciate the limitations of this game engine, you can only do so much with it.
Cheesing is giving your character powers or abilities the game engine doesn't. Far too often, "purely creative RP" is just a euphemism for cheesing. Monster PCs especially need to have powers and abilities that adhere to rules or things get ridiculous rather quickly.

I think this would be easily resolved by establishing lore/rules for what a ghost could and could not do.  Any necessary scripting/extra effort that has to go into the MPC type seems a more compelling argument for why it may not be (or not be any time soon) than a cheese factor.  You just have to establish "ghost lore" and set it.  I think ghosts would be extremely ambient an addition to the server.  But then... I love ghost stories. 

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2011, 04:05:14 PM »
Cheesing is giving your character powers or abilities the game engine doesn't. Far too often, "purely creative RP" is just a euphemism for cheesing. Monster PCs especially need to have powers and abilities that adhere to rules or things get ridiculous rather quickly.

That's true, but that's not really an argument against ghosts, as it applies to all monster types.  I think potential cheesing would be far less with a ghost, as all you can do is emote and do dice rolls.  You can't kill anyone, you can't level it, gold and items mean nothing to it.  All a ghost can do is shock people and that's about it.  So there is really no incentive to cheese.  But there seem to be multiple obstacles to implementing a PC ghost on here, and I'm fine with that.  Maybe I'll submit this particular ghost's story to a DM and they can use it in a DM plot sometime.


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Nemien Callishan

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2011, 04:34:23 PM »
It you don't hear back about an application please don't hesitate to send a pm to the team asking about its progress.

I did that. I'm still waiting on an application I made over a year ago and I had to make repeated requests to fianly get a "yes, we're looking at it" 3 or 4 months later when a straight "no" would've been preferable.

Well things sometimes get forgotten

That it seems to happen way too often is cause for concern for me and I've had players (rightly so) vent at me because of the sheer amount of times a PM/app seems to be ignored even after several further nudging PM's. I mean we are trying to promote an atmosphere of horror, dread and lingering death which MPC's attribute to. Outwardly it could be construed as favouritism among the playerbase when you see the same players consistantly get apps and others can't even get one reviewed or gain any feedback whatsoever. Feedback and more communication between DM's and players is one of the most fundamental things to keep the playerbase happy on any server.

You don't say. Some of us just feel ignored :(.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2011, 04:37:04 PM by Nemien Callishan »

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2011, 04:48:41 PM »
That's true, but that's not really an argument against ghosts, as it applies to all monster types.  I think potential cheesing would be far less with a ghost, as all you can do is emote and do dice rolls.  You can't kill anyone, you can't level it, gold and items mean nothing to it.  All a ghost can do is shock people and that's about it.  So there is really no incentive to cheese.  But there seem to be multiple obstacles to implementing a PC ghost on here, and I'm fine with that.  Maybe I'll submit this particular ghost's story to a DM and they can use it in a DM plot sometime.

But there is actually a D&D template for a ghost. All our MPCs are based on these templates. Here's the 3.5 version of a 'ghost'.

Quote
Ghost

Ghosts are the spectral remnants of intelligent beings who, for one reason or another, cannot rest easily in their graves.
 
A ghost greatly resembles its corporeal form in life, but in some cases the spiritual form is somewhat altered.
 
Creating A Ghost
 
"Ghost" is an acquired template that can be added to any aberration, animal, dragon, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or plant. The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) must have a Charisma score of at least 6.
 
A ghost uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
 
Size and Type
 
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate the creature’s base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. It gains the incorporeal subtype. Size is unchanged.
 
Hit Dice
 
All current and future Hit Dice become d12s.

Speed
 
Ghosts have a fly speed of 30 feet, unless the base creature has a higher fly speed, with perfect maneuverability.
 
Armor Class
 
Natural armor is the same as the base creature’s but applies only to ethereal encounters. When the ghost manifests (see below), its natural armor bonus is +0, but it gains a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma modifier or +1, whichever is higher.
 
Attack
 
A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal.
 
Full Attack
 
A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal.
 
Damage
 
Against ethereal creatures, a ghost uses the base creature’s damage values. Against nonethereal creatures, the ghost usually cannot deal physical damage at all but can use its special attacks, if any, when it manifests (see below).
 
Special Attacks
 
A ghost retains all the special attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect nonethereal creatures. The ghost also gains a manifestation ability plus one to three other special attacks as described below. The save DC against a special attack is equal to 10 + ½ ghost’s HD + ghost’s Cha modifier unless otherwise noted.
 
Corrupting Gaze (Su)
 
A ghost can blast living beings with a glance, at a range of up to 30 feet. Creatures that meet the ghost’s gaze must succeed on a Fortitude save or take 2d10 points of damage and 1d4 points of Charisma damage.
 
Corrupting Touch (Su)
 
A ghost that hits a living target with its incorporeal touch attack deals 1d6 points of damage. Against ethereal opponents, it adds its Strength modifier to attack and damage rolls. Against nonethereal opponents, it adds its Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only.
 
Draining Touch (Su)
 
A ghost that hits a living target with its incorporeal touch attack drains 1d4 points from any one ability score it selects. On each such successful attack, the ghost heals 5 points of damage to itself. Against ethereal opponents, it adds its Strength modifier to attack rolls only. Against nonethereal opponents, it adds its Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only.
 
Frightful Moan (Su)
 
A ghost can emit a frightful moan as a standard action. All living creatures within a 30-foot spread must succeed on a Will save or become panicked for 2d4 rounds. This is a sonic necromantic mind-affecting fear effect. A creature that successfully saves against the moan cannot be affected by the same ghost’s moan for 24 hours.
 
Horrific Appearance (Su)
 
Any living creature within 60 feet that views a ghost must succeed on a Fortitude save or immediately take 1d4 points of Strength damage, 1d4 points of Dexterity damage, and 1d4 points of Constitution damage. A creature that successfully saves against this effect cannot be affected by the same ghost’s horrific appearance for 24 hours.
 
Malevolence (Su)
 
Once per round, an ethereal ghost can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (caster level 10th or the ghost’s Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, the ghost must be manifested and it must try move into the target’s space; moving into the target’s space to use the malevolence ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save (DC 15 + ghost’s Cha modifier). A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost’s malevolence for 24 hours, and the ghost cannot enter the target’s space. If the save fails, the ghost vanishes into the target’s body.
 
Manifestation (Su)
 
Every ghost has this ability. A ghost dwells on the Ethereal Plane and, as an ethereal creature, it cannot affect or be affected by anything in the material world. When a ghost manifests, it partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane. A manifested ghost can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. A manifested ghost can pass through solid objects at will, and its own attacks pass through armor. A manifested ghost always moves silently. A manifested ghost can strike with its touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon (see Ghostly Equipment, below). A manifested ghost remains partially on the Ethereal Plane, where is it not incorporeal. A manifested ghost can be attacked by opponents on either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. The ghost’s incorporeality helps protect it from foes on the Material Plane, but not from foes on the Ethereal Plane.
 
When a spellcasting ghost is not manifested and is on the Ethereal Plane, its spells cannot affect targets on the Material Plane, but they work normally against ethereal targets. When a spellcasting ghost manifests, its spells continue to affect ethereal targets and can affect targets on the Material Plane normally unless the spells rely on touch. A manifested ghost’s touch spells don’t work on nonethereal targets.
 
A ghost has two home planes, the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. It is not considered extraplanar when on either of these planes.
 
Telekinesis (Su)
 
A ghost can use telekinesis as a standard action (caster level 12th or equal to the ghost’s HD, whichever is higher). When a ghost uses this power, it must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again.
 
Special Qualities
 
A ghost has all the special qualities of the base creature as well as those described below.
 
Rejuvenation (Su)
 
In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The "destroyed" spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.
 
Turn Resistance (Ex)
 
A ghost has +4 turn resistance.

Abilities
 
Same as the base creature, except that the ghost has no Constitution score, and its Charisma score increases by +4.
 
Skills
 
Ghosts have a +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as the base creature.
 
Environment
 
Any, often as base creature.

Organization
 
Solitary, gang (2-4), or mob (7-12).

Challenge Rating
 
Same as the base creature +2.

Treasure
 
None.

Alignment
 
Any.

Level Adjustment
 
Same as the base creature +5.

Ghostly Equipment
 
When a ghost forms, all its equipment and carried items usually become ethereal along with it. In addition, the ghost retains 2d4 items that it particularly valued in life (provided they are not in another creature’s possession). The equipment works normally on the Ethereal Plane but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures when the ghost manifests, but any such attack has a 50% chance to fail unless the weapon is a ghost touch weapon (just as magic weapons can fail to harm the ghost).
 
The original material items remain behind, just as the ghost’s physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the ethereal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place.
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Merrien

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2011, 04:57:57 PM »
Nice :D Thanks for the info.

ethinos

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2011, 05:29:18 PM »
Just noticed in that ghost template info that a plant can be a ghost. WTF? :shock:
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Dobian

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2011, 05:45:01 PM »
Just noticed in that ghost template info that a plant can be a ghost. WTF? :shock:

I guess it would be a stretch if I applied to be a ghost poinsettia.   :lol:


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herkles

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2011, 05:45:40 PM »
a dm should so use a killer ghost plant as an event!


dutchy

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2011, 08:22:29 AM »
shhh tarrokka reads these things aswell
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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #63 on: September 03, 2011, 12:45:48 AM »
What are the AMPC's? These are allowed without application?

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #64 on: September 03, 2011, 12:46:23 AM »
No. Application based MPCs. 'Atmospheric' MPCs with a one month lifespan.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2011, 01:40:00 PM »
I was thinking of applying to a AMPC to get the feeling of it. Though I really haven't been around that long. I've seen it doesn't require being on the server for at least 3 consecutive months. With that said, a werewolf would be nice to RP.

Question about that: Will you only be able to roam around at just night or are you also able to interact in human form as well? Lastly, if it's RPed good enough will the AMPC be able to become a more permanent character to at least be extended? I know they start at level 10 immediately, so it probably isn't possible. Just wondering what the options really are.

Exordium

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2011, 02:04:30 PM »
Question about that: Will you only be able to roam around at just night or are you also able to interact in human form as well? Lastly, if it's RPed good enough will the AMPC be able to become a more permanent character to at least be extended? I know they start at level 10 immediately, so it probably isn't possible. Just wondering what the options really are.

Generally, AMPCs start at level 10 - ECL/2, albeit with good enough story and sound reasoning, some exceptions have been be made.

You are free to use the AMPC as you would a normal PC, aside of being a monster, of course. ;)

AMPCs wont be made into permanent PCs, though. Their story arcs are supposed to have a specific beginning and a specific ending, spanning within a relatively short time, which is why they are allowed to start at that higher level.

Deathpenalty

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2011, 02:17:53 PM »
Question about that: Will you only be able to roam around at just night or are you also able to interact in human form as well? Lastly, if it's RPed good enough will the AMPC be able to become a more permanent character to at least be extended? I know they start at level 10 immediately, so it probably isn't possible. Just wondering what the options really are.

Generally, AMPCs start at level 10 - ECL/2, albeit with good enough story and sound reasoning, some exceptions have been be made.

You are free to use the AMPC as you would a normal PC, aside of being a monster, of course. ;)

AMPCs wont be made into permanent PCs, though. Their story arcs are supposed to have a specific beginning and a specific ending, spanning within a relatively short time, which is why they are allowed to start at that higher level.

Specific beginning and specific ending, hmm. It's going to be one hell of a challenge to write down a solid back story with reasoning. Good to know it'll never be made into a permanent PC, that way I don't have to completely outdo myself. Har har.

I was really never good creating background stories. Maybe just a little - it just takes some inspiration. I'll give it a go though because I'm certain there is need for some more AMPC's out there.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2011, 02:31:08 PM »
To clarify a bit my poor choice of wording: By 'specific' ending I don't mean a predefined ending, but one which afterwards can be clearly marked as the ending. If not sooner, then the expiration date is just that, though it's much better if something else gets the AMPC in the end.

The AMPCs should have a sound and solid background, but same detail as with MPCs is not required.

Deathpenalty

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2011, 02:37:38 PM »
The AMPCs should have a sound and solid background, but same detail as with MPCs is not required.

This got me a bit confused but I think I interpreted it correctly, especially after reading the application rules. The background of a AMPC doesn't have to be as indepth as that of the MPC. Correct?

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2011, 01:17:27 AM »
The AMPCs should have a sound and solid background, but same detail as with MPCs is not required.

This got me a bit confused but I think I interpreted it correctly, especially after reading the application rules. The background of a AMPC doesn't have to be as indepth as that of the MPC. Correct?

Correct. Think of it as writing a script. The AMPC is a 'month long' script, so the background should be enough to show and explain the character. MPCs aren't your usually episodes, moreso a season of your favorite show, so they require a lot more preparation and understanding of their background to make them successful.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2011, 09:33:03 AM »
So it simply just "poof you dead now" after a month? Where is the IC?

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2011, 09:39:35 AM »
It's the AMPCs responsibility to make sure there's an IC explanation. They are encouraged to make sure they face some form of finality before that period is up though.

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2011, 09:54:31 AM »
This been implemented into the server?

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Re: MPC Types
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2011, 10:59:17 AM »
It's the AMPCs responsibility to make sure there's an IC explanation. They are encouraged to make sure they face some form of finality before that period is up though.

I'd like to think that it should be a bit more spontaneous. I'm certain that a lot of PC's will try and slaughter him/her somehow. Maybe even sooner then the one month limit. Is it so that if the AMPC does die, it can respawn pretty much like any other PC? Or is this a 'Hit and Run' type of gig. Thus when it's daylight, act like some super James Bond villain and act as if everything is fine and dandy? (For the lack of a good example)