Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<

[Aduial]

Probably a sort of rule against ninja loot will be necessary, otherwhise every other effort to try to "regulate" the market will probably fail.

[ethinos]

That's been discussed before. However, since it is a reasonable in-character motivation for thief-types, it has simply had systems added/modified to make it more difficult to achieve. Either more systems, or some kind of guideline with regards to ninja-looting are probably the only methods I can think of that would discourage ninja-looting.

[Emomina]

Noticeable by the fact that they OFTEN see you doing it. The DMs share such patterns which each other and if they saw a player abusing any system or exploiting any system they would move quickly to stop it based on their past track record.

 What is a good ending to this issue for some of you, that it is made illegal from an OOC standpoint?
Its been stated several times that its not preferred to just making it harder to do. Stop wanting everything to be fair, the games not fair but everyone can thrive in their own way.
The comical opinions expressed in this thread are that it is EASIER to ninja loot than to actually destroy the dungeon, or that it TAKES LESS RESOURCES.  I use much more costly and replenish-able resources to ninja loot a place than i ever do partying in a dungeon. The only thing that might actually be exploitative is that it can take considerably less time to complete a ninja looting run than to plow through monsters.

[ethinos]

Noticeable by the fact that they OFTEN see you doing it. The DMs share such patterns which each other and if they saw a player abusing any system or exploiting any system they would move quickly to stop it based on their past track record.

Ninja-looting is neither abusing the sytem nor exploiting it. It's simply a tactic for acquiring goods without defeating the creatures guarding it. The only thing a DM can probably do is to spawn a DM critter to antagonize the ninja.

Stop wanting everything to be fair, the games not fair but everyone can thrive in their own way.

It has nothing to do with fairness. It causes significant OOC annoyance and grief. This is the exact same reason that PvP and other actions that can cause OOC grief have guidelines and rules for them.

[Ophie Kitty]

Noticeable by the fact that they OFTEN see you doing it. The DMs share such patterns which each other and if they saw a player abusing any system or exploiting any system they would move quickly to stop it based on their past track record.

Ninja-looting is neither abusing the sytem nor exploiting it. It's simply a tactic for acquiring goods without defeating the creatures guarding it. The only thing a DM can probably do is to spawn a DM critter to antagonize the ninja.

Stop wanting everything to be fair, the games not fair but everyone can thrive in their own way.

It has nothing to do with fairness. It causes significant OOC annoyance and grief. This is the exact same reason that PvP and other actions that can cause OOC grief have guidelines and rules for them.

[Seniies]

It has nothing to do with fairness.

º_º

[WildPirate13]

Stealth dungeon farming!!!! Grr... I hate it.


 
We need higher spawn rates.. I can go a whole day without finding Elketh why? One player who posts on the forum who shall remain unnamed admitted to farming Elketh twice daily to me... I was like *(^&^*&%^&%%*^%! I was shocked that such a Vocal proponent of "RP" was a literally a farming machine...

I suggest more spawns.. so everybody can get a kick at the can.

[Heretic]

EO and I, support all you ninja looters out there, having been the dirtiest ninjas of the server, ever - its just moral duty.

Go ninjas, go. 

[ethinos]

Keep the best stuff in a dungeon in a plot locked chest. Have the key on the boss critter. Want to get the best stuff in the dungeon without fighting the boss? Hope you can pick pockets!

Just an idea.

[marlewebber]

Keep the best stuff in a dungeon in a plot locked chest. Have the key on the boss critter. Want to get the best stuff in the dungeon without fighting the boss? Hope you can pick pockets!

Just an idea.

Enter, Kirthalax, ze Alhoon.  Great dungeon, also not possible to finish by a Ninja.

[Emomina]

Keep the best stuff in a dungeon in a plot locked chest. Have the key on the boss critter. Want to get the best stuff in the dungeon without fighting the boss? Hope you can pick pockets!

Just an idea.

This idea just makes the ninja looter kill the boss, which I presume you feel they avoid doing now because its not dooable or too dangerous?
So not only would they be looting the dungeon, but getting the highest XP kill as well. This lowers the spawn level.
Somehow this is a preferable alternative?  I do agree with some of the nicest loot actually being on the person of the boss.  Its that way with the Alhoon, the 4 Hags and the Lich. And I have noticed high spawns without the loot and the final boss before, because someone killed them and them only. The loot on their person is the only reason the spawn was tampered, so its tit for tat.

There is not any perfect answer, because there is no way to please anyone that perceives taking items through subtlefuge rather than brute genocide.  The truth is, either way, you earn the goods. Anytime a place is too easily done, there are changes made to make the task much harder. There honestly not any place on PotM that does not pose a serious risk to a would-be stealth gatherer.

I do know one thing though, the original poster very well could have started over frustration from something that was not even ninja looted. Not everytime a place is void of loot is because of a ninja looter and nor is the practice widespread or even common on potm as its perceived by some of you.

[ethinos]

This idea just makes the ninja looter kill the boss, which I presume you feel they avoid doing now because its not dooable or too dangerous?
So not only would they be looting the dungeon, but getting the highest XP kill as well. This lowers the spawn level.
Somehow this is a preferable alternative?

Yes, I think they avoid killing the boss. Not because it's not doable, or because it's too dangerous. Only because they don't have to which is why I think a thief should have to pickpocket the boss (which brings in a bit more danger/caution/skill) or kill him for the key. The best stuff in the dungeon should be harder to get to. Notice that I am not saying we should even ban ninja-looting. Just simply making it harder for the good stuff.

And yes, it's preferrable to a straight ninja-loot because killing the boss does lower the spawn, and that also lowers the loot rather than just leaving it at the status quo and ripe for more ninja-looting. Besides, if someone truly was a thief, I don't see why they'd consider pickpocketing the boss to not be a reasonable in-character consideration and option.

For the boss to have the best stuff, and to keep the key to access it on his person is a very reasonable and understandable thing to me.

[Emomina]

Different mindsets then. I would rather find a high spawn and gain the XP at least and find it void of loot than to find a lowered spawn with loot. As you yourself have stated elsewhere, money is an ever replenishable resource but experience gain in a rarely grouped up balanced party is worth it every time.

Consider the spawn will also drop the loot for you unless you are coming in directly after its been looted and the decision is even more of a no brainer. Then again, I could give a toss what any other player is getting or how, as long as it does not affect me negatively and was not done through exploit.

I don't think many realize how rare a high spawn actually is on PotM. The spawn rates are not keeping up with the amount of people doing them, finding something other than low is often not possible and especially on the weekends when most of us can get our only real parties together to do one.

[Avatar6666]

Different mindsets then. I would rather find a high spawn and gain the XP at least and find it void of loot than to find a lowered spawn with loot. As you yourself have stated elsewhere, money is an ever replenishable resource but experience gain in a rarely grouped up balanced party is worth it every time.

Consider the spawn will also drop the loot for you unless you are coming in directly after its been looted and the decision is even more of a no brainer. Then again, I could give a toss what any other player is getting or how, as long as it does not affect me negatively and was not done through exploit.

I don't think many realize how rare a high spawn actually is on PotM. The spawn rates are not keeping up with the amount of people doing them, finding something other than low is often not possible and especially on the weekends when most of us can get our only real parties together to do one.

I very much feel this frustration, I give a thumbs up to better spawning. I know its hard for a Dev and a DM to do so but i hate walking all over creation looking for a some what decent spawn. Loot is nice but i would rather rp in a party and get xp.

[ethinos]

The devs created the spawn strength system to represent what happens when you wipe out the spawn in a location. You slay them all, they are much weaker than the last time. But I think the loot spawn should be similar. You rob them blind, they'll be poorer next time.

[jlove916]

I wish I had a ninja to loot.. man think of the stuff he would be carrying. [ninja loot]!!!

[Jadow_Valroth]

The devs created the spawn strength system to represent what happens when you wipe out the spawn in a location. You slay them all, they are much weaker than the last time. But I think the loot spawn should be similar. You rob them blind, they'll be poorer next time.

The loot does go down each time you loot it, I've seen this happen personally, multiple times, and quite blantantly.

Also, I agree, the rate at which spawns improve should be faster. The way it is now, you'll -never- see most places on max spawn.

[WildPirate13]

The spawn rate.. here is an idea increase the difficulty... eventually it will turn into a death trap for anyone that loots over and over again.

Up the spawns to much that only a full well organized party could get through if they have been looted repeatedly. Give nice high spots etc...

That would encourage more party play and even better exp at a very very high risk...

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

I think a good solution is to direct more of the treasure to be dropped by creatures rather than being in containers.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

I think a good solution is to direct more of the treasure to be dropped by creatures rather than being in containers.

  works for me!

[Vespertilio]

I think a good solution is to direct more of the treasure to be dropped by creatures rather than being in containers.

This is surely something which works on Perfidus, coupled with an end of the dungeon which requires a huge group effort/risk. That on a smaller scale for lower level areas might be beneficial overall.  I'm personally against the concept of Boss/Key drop  logic as I've personally seen many pcs of various classes use tactics which mean they run to a boss directly and kill it, reaping rewards, what ever those rewards might be.  A dungeon based on killing things as you go with escalating rewards such as perfidus yet scaled back for lower level areas makes more sense as per balance.  Requiring a group effort to kill the boss with various building techniques before reaching the best chest/s, is going to be more rewarding for groups and encourage them.

That taken into account, I'd still like to point out that due to the escalated difficulty of Perfidus, I have yet to be part of an utterly and entirely icly motivated party there that reached the end, there has always been some level of ooc co-ordination due to the sheer difficulty of the dungeon.  On an rp server I think it is also important to consider just how possible a dungeon is for party that can be gathered on an ic level.  Perfidus requires, ooc considerations and planning to make happen. This isn't WOW, and I'd prefer to not plan 'raids' ooc but perfidus literally requires a certain level of ooc organization to be successful.

[Budly]

More loot inside the bowl of big monsters then?

I am not a big fan of every damn spawn carrying things. I say, leave some for soloing people to. I barely have a character right now able to take a rat spawn with minor were's.

[Aahz]

I do know one thing though, the original poster very well could have started over frustration from something that was not even ninja looted. Not everytime a place is void of loot is because of a ninja looter and nor is the practice widespread or even common on potm as its perceived by some of you.

This

[Miuo]

I think a good solution is to direct more of the treasure to be dropped by creatures rather than being in containers.

+1

[Time_Stomped]

The real loot has always been on creatures!

Mink skins, beetle mandibles, and skeleton knuckles for the win!