Author Topic: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<  (Read 30145 times)

EO

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2011, 10:15:02 AM »
I've seen this in har akir, all mobs up no doors opened and no loot, sometimes the loot dosnt respawn.

I've fixed those issues (they occured in 2-3 dungeons), so the loot will properly respawn now. It was not at all caused by ninja looters; just that after a dungeon had been looted once, it would not respawn loot again, just monsters.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2011, 10:59:30 AM »
You could have the best treasure behind a locked door, and the "boss" of the dungeon has the key. Then when he is attacked he summons all the creatures in the map to himself. if you've done a clean sweep you'll have nothing to worry about. if you bypass all the monsters then all of a sudden they wind up on top of you.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2011, 12:48:54 PM »
Ninja looting? Hah hah!

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respawnaholic

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2011, 01:38:55 PM »
It is annoying, but Emomina's right. Its not normally thieves doing it, but people with access to invisibility. Be that as it may I dont really see a need for fixing it. Attempting to do so would only mess up the server dynamics in an attempt to address what is at best a marginal issue....you know.....sort of like the whole fatigue thing.

Kagetora

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2011, 02:32:27 PM »
Personally I get annoyed at any off-level farming, whether they kill stuff or not. It's hard to train an alchemist, for example, when the beetle cave has ALWAYS been cleared by someone higher level. (Also annoying that an NPC buys mandibles, but that's another point altogether.) I'm almost reaching the point where I'd support a per-dungeon level cap where to enter you have to at least have someone within the proper level range coming with you.

This +infinity.  I could care less about ninja-looting in most cases...its pretty rare to find a decent piece of gear that someone in the party actually NEEDS and can use (although it is very exciting when you do).  Other than that its pretty much just cash that gets split at the end.  I don't go adventuring to find "phat lewtz."

I go adventuring because I want to do something other than stand around the Outskirts yammering with people for hours on end.  One can really only take that for so long before wanting to go swing a sword.  Yes, this is an RP server, but its also AD&D and NWN-engine gaming.  Its actually MORE fun in most instances to RP while ON an adventure.

Yet, I would say 7-8 times out of 10, when you do get a group together and actually walk somewhere for an adventure, where you go is empty.  To be fair, this is sometimes because another group had the same idea fifteen minutes before yours did.  But, often this is NOT the case.

I can't even begin to tell you how many times I have watched a high-level PC run through the lower-level adventure areas gutting everything in their path, with no danger to themselves, so they can collect whatever it is they are after....usually just the loot and a bounty.  Then they run off to sell the loot to a vendor, turn in the bounty at the office, and keep any actual useful item to sell to a PC at an inflated price, or give away to a friend's low-level PC.  I have actually, RECENTLY, been roaming an area with others, killing the spawns, trying to make our way to the loot and/or exit, and had a much higher-level PC actually run by us to beat us to the loot.  So they could go sell it.  I've also gone bandit hunting, come across a cave filled with bandits, and then gotten to the central area to find a headless bandit-leader's corpse.  Because some high-level ran in, ignored the bandits, ganked the fighters and leader, looted the chests, and ran out again.  MANY times.  What do you do?  Nothing.  Turn around and trudge back to the outkirts.  With no XP to speak of, and certainly nothing worth taking back.  And these are only a couple of examples.  There are many more.

I mean, REALLY?  This is the best use you can find for your time as a level 13+ player?  To make a loop of the outskirts areas and clear everything out as fast as possible before someone who could actually get XP from them shows up?  So you can bank a couple thousand gold or find a couple of items to add to the inventory for selling?  Thats pathetic.

So, ninja-looting?  Who cares.  I don't.  I'm much more concerned with off-level farming.  Thats just plain RUDE, and spoils other people's enjoyment of the game.  That said, do I support placing level-caps on areas, where if you are over a certain level you can't go there?  Not so much.  Its a behavior, in players, that needs to be changed, as opposed to a game mechanic.  Stop being a bunch of pathetic, lazy ass-hats and go play in areas designed for you.  Leave the low-level stuff to the low-level players.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2011, 02:45:26 PM »
I've seen this in har akir, all mobs up no doors opened and no loot, sometimes the loot dosnt respawn.

I've fixed those issues (they occured in 2-3 dungeons), so the loot will properly respawn now. It was not at all caused by ninja looters; just that after a dungeon had been looted once, it would not respawn loot again, just monsters.

I know, i wasnt saying it was ninja looter, i was suggesting it was a bug :)

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2011, 03:49:54 PM »
I don't know how many people here play World of Warcraft, but I happened upon an idea today.  In one of the battlegrounds in WoW the end boss is protected by several other npc's, standing right next to him at the last encounter.  By defeating certain obstacles along the way(capturing towers) these additional npc's are despawned. 

It could make sense to use a similar approach in certain dungeons where the final fight is far more difficult than normal if the spawns are not "weened" on the approach.  At least so far as the "Lair of Loot" is concerned. 



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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2011, 04:02:12 PM »
It is annoying, but Emomina's right. Its not normally thieves doing it, but people with access to invisibility. Be that as it may I dont really see a need for fixing it. Attempting to do so would only mess up the server dynamics in an attempt to address what is at best a marginal issue....you know.....sort of like the whole fatigue thing.

I've always been a fan of their there being smarter spawns, perhaps ones that make use of See Invisibility when hearing players loot things under their noses.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 04:11:39 PM by Rhymenoceros »

Axra

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2011, 04:07:44 PM »
I like dutchys idea, would be good to see a bit of etiquitte in practice at the very least.  And yeah farming...no justification for it.  Plus isnt it against the server rules?

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2011, 04:37:56 PM »
I am 100% in favor of ninja looting even though I have no characters who can do it, so let me explain why.

It is heartbreaking to see high level characters (14+) destroying the Barovian crypts for reasons known only to them, while I am forced to go minking with my Level 6 character because they are the only monsters not yet hunted to extinction like passenger pigeons.

Yet, when someone ninja loots, the spawn is left intact. This way, when I check one of the treasure-holding corpses and I see it has been ninja-looted to empty, I can just run out of the dungeon, wait 20 minutes for the loot to respawn, and in the mean time through tells or Role-Play I can organize a proper party.

Ninja looting is great because it is a win-win scenario because the high level ninjas get the loot, and then after waiting 20 minutes I get to stomp the dungeons for Experience AND fat loots.

Anyone who disagrees may buy a stack of 240 mink pelts from me.

In summary, I love Ninja looting because with patience, you can share the love and everyone gets fat loots and mobs to stomp.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2011, 06:27:20 PM »
Sucks for people who use consumables, take risks, and take time organising, to go through a dungeon and find someone has just snuck through it on a whim since they were able to and taken all the rewards with none of the expense.

I'd rather they just fought through so at least I could see there was nothing there for me the moment I entered the dungeon rather than going to expense and risk to find nothing.

If you told a group of PnP players time after time that despite there being a horde of enemies, none of the corpses held anything of value, and after the final boss, they were greeted with an empty chest, you'd have people annoyed.

Being told that your work is closed for the day is one thing, but going in to work for the day and being told at the end you aren't being paid for it is another.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2011, 07:23:26 PM »
I am 100% in favor of ninja looting even though I have no characters who can do it, so let me explain why.

It is heartbreaking to see high level characters (14+) destroying the Barovian crypts for reasons known only to them, while I am forced to go minking with my Level 6 character because they are the only monsters not yet hunted to extinction like passenger pigeons.

Yet, when someone ninja loots, the spawn is left intact. This way, when I check one of the treasure-holding corpses and I see it has been ninja-looted to empty, I can just run out of the dungeon, wait 20 minutes for the loot to respawn, and in the mean time through tells or Role-Play I can organize a proper party.

Ninja looting is great because it is a win-win scenario because the high level ninjas get the loot, and then after waiting 20 minutes I get to stomp the dungeons for Experience AND fat loots.

Anyone who disagrees may buy a stack of 240 mink pelts from me.

In summary, I love Ninja looting because with patience, you can share the love and everyone gets fat loots and mobs to stomp.

theres loads of things i wish to call you for this post but forum rules forbid me to do so.

what the hell are you talking about? win win??? you ost your marbles?  ninja looters often sell their stuff to those who pay most thus thats often the vardos in return you can buy them  items for  high prices.

theres only a win win for the ninja looter itself those around do not benefit at all from it, what you described was scouting ahead thats whata rogue should do in parties act as a scout not go to the end of the dungeon to loot all the good stuff.
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2011, 07:46:48 PM »
I think the issue here is that some people dungeon for loot apparently.  I certainly do not, i am only in a dungeon for XP, so I have the back of anyone that ninja loots and allows the dungeon to reach higher spawns.  If I get a top spawn, but no loot drops, it is disappointing but the XP gained was more than worth the time.  Doing a top spawn is more rewarding than doing the low spawn multiple times day in day out. Not to mention it may actually offer a challenge. Money and items are easily EASILY had, you will eventually get what you seek.

Anyone that appreciates a good spawn will appreciate a spawn being left to grow. People that routinely do the same places over and over regardless of the spawn level are the annoyance of the spawn seeker. You wont hear those people making threads attacking this behavior because in the end its their prerogative.   Anyone that has a problem with ninja looting, I recommend you actually try it, if you think its akin to cheating I recommend you actually see what it is that you think is so easy.
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ethinos

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2011, 07:59:19 PM »
I dislike ninja looting because sometimes you go through a lot of consumables on higher spawns. Only one of my characters has money in the bank. The rest are pretty much the adventurer equivalent of paycheck-to-paycheck. It can be ruinous to go through a dungeon, expend all your heals and other consumables, only to find out that you're pretty much bankrupt and unable to adventure further until you can find an alternate way of recouping your losses.

I don't think ninja looting is easy, but I do think it's lame. Also, I don't believe the folks ninja loot for the reason of being in-character, but rather for OOC selfish greed.
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2011, 09:16:52 PM »
well if i dungeon i hope for somthing special as most my chars ...all 3 lmao   have decent gear  so i think thats somthing more people have they want the loot in hopes they get something usefull.
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2011, 04:19:23 PM »
The systems we have in place make ninja-looting a non-issue. The amount of loot is tied to the strength of the spawns in an area. If some rogue goes in and steals a bunch of stuff without killing any monsters, the monsters get stronger, which increases the amount of loot the next time the area re-initializes. People are often quick to blame a lack of loot on ninja-looters because it's a common problem in a standard PW setup, but the actual causes of low loot are:

 :arrow: a bug/glitch in the dungeon setup that makes loot spawn incorrectly (most common, unfortunately--I screw this one up a lot myself :oops:)
 :arrow: the monsters in the dungeon have been farmed a lot, weakening their faction and lowering the loot totals for that faction
 :arrow: (least common) you entered a dungeon that was ninja-looted that has not had a chance to re-initialize itself

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2011, 05:25:43 PM »
Besides it really dosent matter as most loot you need for your pc comes pretty cheap imo anyways from the vardo, and they will work with most people. Also its not like the items are worth more than the xp as they are pretty toned down because of the low magic thing.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2011, 07:43:25 PM »
I know a simple solution to this problem which should make every (pc) happy. I am not sure how it would work with the current systems, but it is a script which is based on who open the chest, and allows for each player to get something. It bases off of level and allows for once per chest type of thing per player. How laggy this would be I am uncertain, but I know that it would atleast allow each player to get something out of every chest they open based on thier level, and I think even class.

ethinos

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2011, 07:47:22 PM »
As long as dungeons typically have a key on the boss bad-guy that must be used to open the major treasure chest/room, then I'd see that as fixing the problem. You can take the smaller junk, but no taking the good stuff without a fight.
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2011, 07:48:21 PM »
I know a simple solution to this problem which should make every (pc) happy. I am not sure how it would work with the current systems, but it is a script which is based on who open the chest, and allows for each player to get something. It bases off of level and allows for once per chest type of thing per player. How laggy this would be I am uncertain, but I know that it would atleast allow each player to get something out of every chest they open based on thier level, and I think even class.

That's not only very strongly out of character, but also useless against stealth dungeon farming, since the rogue or invisible fellow who does it, is going solo, not with a party. I've no quarrel with a thief stealing my loot infront of my nose, nor really with stealth farming either. I only wish people had the courtesy to do it in dungeons of their level and not all too often.

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2011, 10:09:33 PM »
that is the worse system ever.. and it was from ddo. and i hated it when i was on that server
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2011, 02:20:35 PM »
The systems we have in place make ninja-looting a non-issue. The amount of loot is tied to the strength of the spawns in an area. If some rogue goes in and steals a bunch of stuff without killing any monsters, the monsters get stronger, which increases the amount of loot the next time the area re-initializes. People are often quick to blame a lack of loot on ninja-looters because it's a common problem in a standard PW setup, but the actual causes of low loot are:

 :arrow: a bug/glitch in the dungeon setup that makes loot spawn incorrectly (most common, unfortunately--I screw this one up a lot myself :oops:)
 :arrow: the monsters in the dungeon have been farmed a lot, weakening their faction and lowering the loot totals for that faction
 :arrow: (least common) you entered a dungeon that was ninja-looted that has not had a chance to re-initialize itself

It makes it a non-issue for other players losing out on a ninja looters deeds, but how I see it at least, Its totally exploiting a flaw in the system. While killing the vampires once every day isn't exactly something that seems very logical to begin with, it can be explained easier than, "I'm going to go steal from the vampires," and then saying the same thing twenty minutes after you left and the loot has respawned, and so on.

Lets say our player has four hours of free time every day, and spends this time ninjalooting three times a week. If he finds two-three dungeons that hes capable of ninja looting, and It'd probably take him about 30min to actually perform the deed, and 10 minutes to switch between the different dungeons.  40mins per dungeon, He could do six dungeons of looting in those few hours.

I've taken note of approximately how much money net worth (I didn't sell everything, but wrote how much it was worth) of a few places I've done since this thread was started, places that I've known to be victims of ninja looting often, and I averaged 8,000 to 15,000 if I were to simply vendor the findings. If this person did, lets take the average of that, 11,500 six times, He'd score 69,000 gold for his four hour effort. Three times a week? Hes making over 200,000 fang in just vendoring junk to the Vistani. And even if my speculations are a little high, half them. 100,000 a week still seems like too much wealth to be flowing on the server for doing, really, absolutely nothing.

People ninja-loot for a reason. Its a ridiculously easy and an efficient way to get money if you know what your you're doing.




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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2011, 02:36:24 PM »
The systems we have in place make ninja-looting a non-issue. The amount of loot is tied to the strength of the spawns in an area. If some rogue goes in and steals a bunch of stuff without killing any monsters, the monsters get stronger, which increases the amount of loot the next time the area re-initializes. People are often quick to blame a lack of loot on ninja-looters because it's a common problem in a standard PW setup, but the actual causes of low loot are:

 :arrow: a bug/glitch in the dungeon setup that makes loot spawn incorrectly (most common, unfortunately--I screw this one up a lot myself :oops:)
 :arrow: the monsters in the dungeon have been farmed a lot, weakening their faction and lowering the loot totals for that faction
 :arrow: (least common) you entered a dungeon that was ninja-looted that has not had a chance to re-initialize itself

It makes it a non-issue for other players losing out on a ninja looters deeds, but how I see it at least, Its totally exploiting a flaw in the system. While killing the vampires once every day isn't exactly something that seems very logical to begin with, it can be explained easier than, "I'm going to go steal from the vampires," and then saying the same thing twenty minutes after you left and the loot has respawned, and so on.

Lets say our player has four hours of free time every day, and spends this time ninjalooting three times a week. If he finds two-three dungeons that hes capable of ninja looting, and It'd probably take him about 30min to actually perform the deed, and 10 minutes to switch between the different dungeons.  40mins per dungeon, He could do six dungeons of looting in those few hours.

I've taken note of approximately how much money net worth (I didn't sell everything, but wrote how much it was worth) of a few places I've done since this thread was started, places that I've known to be victims of ninja looting often, and I averaged 8,000 to 15,000 if I were to simply vendor the findings. If this person did, lets take the average of that, 11,500 six times, He'd score 69,000 gold for his four hour effort. Three times a week? Hes making over 200,000 fang in just vendoring junk to the Vistani. And even if my speculations are a little high, half them. 100,000 a week still seems like too much wealth to be flowing on the server for doing, really, absolutely nothing.

People ninja-loot for a reason. Its a ridiculously easy and an efficient way to get money if you know what your you're doing.

Um, I think its say to safe that if someone were to amass that much, then it would noticeable from a DM perspective. Being someone that has at times done ninja looting, but never to the extent you describe, I would say that is a very far fetched scenario.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 02:38:20 PM by Emomina »
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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2011, 02:39:00 PM »
This is a speculation. At 69,000gp in four hours. That's certainly enough to tide someone off for weeks. Meaning they wouldn't have to do this more than once a month, unless they needed to find something in particular such as a consumable.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 02:41:12 PM by Rhymenoceros »

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Re: Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2011, 02:44:49 PM »
Um, I think its say to safe that if someone were to amass that much, then it would noticeable from a DM perspective. Being someone that has at times done ninja looting, but never to the extent you describe, I would say that is a very far fetched scenario.

Noticable how? DM's can't see your bank accounts and I doubt most will snoop at your on-character gold levels for curiousity's sake. They have no idea if the gold you have was earned through ninja-looting or honestly. Also, since ninja-looting isn't illegal and only frowned upon by the playerbase, I doubt DM's are going to actively watch and discourage such behavior.
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