Stealth Dungeon Farming >.<

[Axra]

This has happened more times than I care to count in several places (crypts, wolves, scrags etc), where you will fight tirelessly with your group through all the dungeons levels only to find that the room at the end is completely devoid of all loot and enemies.  People talk about players stealthing/going invisible to miss all the rabble, just to get the stuff in the last room.  Its gotta stop!  Talk about 'strategy' and 'its how i play my character' all you want, because IMO, if its solo and bloody repetitive like it is, its meta gaming.  It seems like theres alot of people with characters who 'avoid fighting' etc.  Funny that the boss room is empty though yeah?  Is there some sort of system that can be implemented to stop people abusing this?  It was fine the first half dozen times (tough luck etc) But its edging on 9 of 10 times.

Thats all i have to whine about for now... (goes and makes a coffee)

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

indeed it is quite annoying to go through certain areas with a party to find that the place is looted clean I know theres a script in place to expose invis people and such same with stealth but obviously there is a frustrating problem here

[Anarcoplayba]

Not this discussion again...

The problem with all thw whine regarding the ninja loot (yes, it has a name) is that THIS whining CRIPPLED rogues, because now to try to avoid this they nerfed stealth to a point you gotta be a high level rogue to pass around da damn beetle.

It's annoying? Yes, it is. But what else do you want? The DM's chasing the looters? Removing Invisibility and Rogues from the game? Solve In game what bothers you in game.

[Axra]

It doesnt work like that now does it?  Do people make rouges just to ninja loot? Of course not! Maybe they should set it so High lvl rouges cant ninja past low lvl dungeons so a lvl 20 rouge doesnt float all the way to the bottom of the crypts and kill everything by batting an eyelash.  That way lower level chars could do it......if they could survive the beasties at the end, hm? Use your head mate, its an RP server, Rouges are made based on a characters background yes? not, "I R ROUge!! I get da leet stuff on dis server!!!111".  This server isnt intended for solo play anyway is it? I deffinitly remember reading that somewhere. Soloing is allowed. Not soloing is allowed so if your a rouge that means you can ninja loot all the time. Many more ways to play a rouge than going ninja everywhere, isnt there? If you cant figure it out then maybe you picked the wrong class. (not aimed at anyone in particular btw)

[dutchy]

if people ninja loot a spot atleast have the decent behaviour of leaving a msg behind we got loads of systems now that can make you leave a msg that the place been done.

one one side i agree with rogues doing what rogues do.

on the other side its piss poor behaviour making ppl waste time and items to go trough somthing and not find the pot of gold og the end of the rainbow.

so place somthing like   light tracks are seen going in as you enter you notice the doors open but the creatures that dwell inside untouched.

as for solve it ic......its sorta an ooc thing so dealing with it ic is hard to do

[dutchy]

also instead of bitching and complaining think of salutions that DOESNT harm the class.

[Badelaire]

also instead of bitching and complaining think of salutions that DOESNT harm the class.

Effing A

[Stygian Messiah]

While it's pretty annoying, isn't this the sort of thing that should be expected from a rogue character?

[ethinos]

While it's pretty annoying, isn't this the sort of thing that should be expected from a rogue character?

If it causes a lot of OOC frustration and anger, I think a rogue player should minimize this kind of behavior.

I thought we changed things so that the main loot chest typically needed to be opened by a key on the big, bad guy?

Edit: Thinking on this further, I think the whole idea is silly anyways. I place a higher value on XP (that a stealth looter is bypassing), than on the loot itself.

[Emomina]

Question is, should it cause 'a lot of ooc frustration and anger' ?   I mean, if there was a guarantee of items being with every spawn then how would that be any different than your common MMO, isn't there a reasonable expectation that you can not reliably count on what you find? Its only items afterall, most of which get sold to NPCs for gold in the end, its not the end of the world. Its not nearly as common as these threads make them sound, its just the frustration in the moment.

I am willing to bet my entire character vault that it was most likely not a rogue at all that did whatever this thread came abouts by.
There are about as much "rogues" that can successfully pass all stealth checks as we have digits on our hands.  The modus operandi of ninja looting involves invisibility and lots of running, and is probably one of the reasons that invisibility is the new ability to get its resourcefulness attacked with a system of checks.

If you obliterate a spawn and take the loot, what part of your sensibilities are being any more kind to a fellow player than a ninja looter?

- Dungeoneer= destroys the spawn and causes the wait for the spawn to grow start back at step one. Most places this is over a day of being untouched, i.e not likely on our server.
- Invisibility looter=  keeps the spawn exactly where it is,    in fact within 15 minutes of the place being devoid of any PCs the chests will repopulate their loot at the present spawn loot table.

You find yourself in a dungeon that a 'rogue' has so egregiously ruined (most like an invisible character with likely not one stealth feat mind you) and you need only wait 15 minutes for maximum uber loot monster pwning fun.  Game on.  Less whining about things without the whole perspective, and more grin and bear it. Great things dont happen to your character because you will it.  Its endeavor, and luck.  You didn't have the luck this time but you will again in future, count on it. 

[HellsPanda]

to me this sounds more like the issue you get with the ML crypts, and vampires, and Sullen woods, and other dungeons with several entrances/paths. Where while one party is chopping its way around the circle slaying zombies, another group [usually a solooer] goes straight for the middle clearing the most rewarding area. Then going deeper, causing abit of annoyance in the other group

[dutchy]

i even seen it happen in the alhoon place   thats pretty unrewarding when a group worked togther for 30+ mins and comes to the holy grail only to find out the knights who say nee beaten them to it.

it just sucks when you worked for somthing and theres nothing to gain beside some fun and xp and yes we are always saying thats what the game is but we all know we want to see a bit of shinies at the end of a run.

[CuddleGutz]

Personally I get annoyed at any off-level farming, whether they kill stuff or not. It's hard to train an alchemist, for example, when the beetle cave has ALWAYS been cleared by someone higher level. (Also annoying that an NPC buys mandibles, but that's another point altogether.) I'm almost reaching the point where I'd support a per-dungeon level cap where to enter you have to at least have someone within the proper level range coming with you.

[kyoung2200]

Personally I get annoyed at any off-level farming, whether they kill stuff or not. It's hard to train an alchemist, for example, when the beetle cave has ALWAYS been cleared by someone higher level. (Also annoying that an NPC buys mandibles, but that's another point altogether.) I'm almost reaching the point where I'd support a per-dungeon level cap where to enter you have to at least have someone within the proper level range coming with you.

Agreed here.  The only time I'll ever take a higher level character into a lower level dungeon is when theres maybe 5 people on the server.  While doing this though, I've still run into people legitimately hunting in these areas.  If that happens, I immediately bow out and let them go on.

On the other hand, though, it's harder for higher levels to start professions that require low-level ingredients without stepping on toes.  Sure, they could buy the ingredients, but that's not always an option.

[HellsPanda]

Well you shouldnt be doing any mid/high level dungeon while there are only 5 people online, since it takes alot of time for those to build a spawn to a good size

[Strigoi]

its a mater of timing in my opinion. if a player ninja loots a dungeon when no one is around, i dont think there is anything wrong with it. the dungeon was empty and he came in and took what he wanted legitimately.

on the other hand, if someone does this to a group that is already heading to that chest/location, i would say that is griefing and being down right inconsiderate. if that was the case, id complain to a DM. sometimes though you arrive when the dmg has already been done, it happens. usually you can tell when someone looted the place by open doors, or a few dead mobs, signs that someone has been there.

[Thoraion]

if people ninja loot a spot atleast have the decent behaviour of leaving a msg behind we got loads of systems now that can make you leave a msg that the place been done.

one one side i agree with rogues doing what rogues do.

on the other side its piss poor behaviour making ppl waste time and items to go trough somthing and not find the pot of gold og the end of the rainbow.

so place somthing like   light tracks are seen going in as you enter you notice the doors open but the creatures that dwell inside untouched.

+1

Personally I get annoyed at any off-level farming, whether they kill stuff or not. It's hard to train an alchemist, for example, when the beetle cave has ALWAYS been cleared by someone higher level. (Also annoying that an NPC buys mandibles, but that's another point altogether.) I'm almost reaching the point where I'd support a per-dungeon level cap where to enter you have to at least have someone within the proper level range coming with you.

What if said Alchemists happens to of off-level himself? For me, ingredients for different crafts are the main reason to hit dungeons below my level.

[kyoung2200]

Well you shouldnt be doing any mid/high level dungeon while there are only 5 people online, since it takes alot of time for those to build a spawn to a good size

I'm talking purely from a resource gathering standpoint (herbs, mostly).  That is, I will go to the lower-level dungeons (like beetles) to find fungii if the population on the server is extremely low (5 people, for example).

[ethinos]

Question is, should it cause 'a lot of ooc frustration and anger' ?   I mean, if there was a guarantee of items being with every spawn then how would that be any different than your common MMO, isn't there a reasonable expectation that you can not reliably count on what you find? Its only items afterall, most of which get sold to NPCs for gold in the end, its not the end of the world. Its not nearly as common as these threads make them sound, its just the frustration in the moment.

I think the frustration and anger come from the fact that it's hard enough to find a decent spawn in most dungeons. When you spend the time to gather a group, and come across a good spawn, you are that much more disheartened and frustrated when you find the goods swiped.

You find yourself in a dungeon that a 'rogue' has so egregiously ruined (most like an invisible character with likely not one stealth feat mind you) and you need only wait 15 minutes for maximum uber loot monster pwning fun.

This cycle only promotes ninja looting. Whether by wizard, or by rogue.

[Emomina]

The main point is that its not necessarily the case that someone ninja looted,  there are many people that go for the last and most lucrative spot in a dungeon.  They use invisibility or whatever and its just what they do.

When you make threads like this one, its unique amongst the myriad of arguments brought up because whereas nearly every issue brought forth is to be true to your character and not impair the fun of others, this one is asking people to not be true to their characters if it has the indirect possibility of harming the fun of others later. With the clothing crafting arguments its a majority of people choosing the IC (realism, being able to know what someone is wearing) over the OOC and fun option (having each character look more like the player imagines, more variety in appearances) Pick a side and stick to it, this thread is wanting an OOC solution for an IC behaivor. Its dubious, if you ask people to not do it, then the outcome is not more spawn, its less.  Instead of leaving the spawn for others, you will wipe it out. You never ninja loot places that you can not handle, its as if people think ninja looters or treasure room targeting types are getting something easier, when its just not the case necessarily. If the people are not ninja looting then they just do the bloody dungeon! Why is this not understood?

I view anyone doing any bit of any dungeon to be their prerogative, none of us own the rights to do any place on our own accord without the distinct possibility someone else already had your idea. If there is a problem, its that spawns just do not populate quickly enough to handle the amount of people doing them. It takes too long for things to get back to a spawn level worth doing them, and people get anxious when they miss such rare opportunities because someone else got their first.

[respawnaholic]

Well you shouldnt be doing any mid/high level dungeon while there are only 5 people online, since it takes alot of time for those to build a spawn to a good size

I'm talking purely from a resource gathering standpoint (herbs, mostly).  That is, I will go to the lower-level dungeons (like beetles) to find fungii if the population on the server is extremely low (5 people, for example).

+1

[Arcane Archers]

The main point is that its not necessarily the case that someone ninja looted,  there are many people that go for the last and most lucrative spot in a dungeon.  They use invisibility or whatever and its just what they do.

When you make threads like this one, its unique amongst the myriad of arguments brought up because whereas nearly every issue brought forth is to be true to your character and not impair the fun of others, this one is asking people to not be true to their characters if it has the indirect possibility of harming the fun of others later. With the clothing crafting arguments its a majority of people choosing the IC (realism, being able to know what someone is wearing) over the OOC and fun option (having each character look more like the player imagines, more variety in appearances) Pick a side and stick to it, this thread is wanting an OOC solution for an IC behaivor. Its dubious, if you ask people to not do it, then the outcome is not more spawn, its less.  Instead of leaving the spawn for others, you will wipe it out. You never ninja loot places that you can not handle, its as if people think ninja looters or treasure room targeting types are getting something easier, when its just not the case necessarily. If the people are not ninja looting then they just do the bloody dungeon! Why is this not understood?

I view anyone doing any bit of any dungeon to be their prerogative, none of us own the rights to do any place on our own accord without the distinct possibility someone else already had your idea. If there is a problem, its that spawns just do not populate quickly enough to handle the amount of people doing them. It takes too long for things to get back to a spawn level worth doing them, and people get anxious when they miss such rare opportunities because someone else got their first.

I have to agree with Emomina. Pretty much said my thoughts.

[Mark Johansen]

The main point is that its not necessarily the case that someone ninja looted,  there are many people that go for the last and most lucrative spot in a dungeon.  They use invisibility or whatever and its just what they do.

When you make threads like this one, its unique amongst the myriad of arguments brought up because whereas nearly every issue brought forth is to be true to your character and not impair the fun of others, this one is asking people to not be true to their characters if it has the indirect possibility of harming the fun of others later. With the clothing crafting arguments its a majority of people choosing the IC (realism, being able to know what someone is wearing) over the OOC and fun option (having each character look more like the player imagines, more variety in appearances) Pick a side and stick to it, this thread is wanting an OOC solution for an IC behaivor. Its dubious, if you ask people to not do it, then the outcome is not more spawn, its less.  Instead of leaving the spawn for others, you will wipe it out. You never ninja loot places that you can not handle, its as if people think ninja looters or treasure room targeting types are getting something easier, when its just not the case necessarily. If the people are not ninja looting then they just do the bloody dungeon! Why is this not understood?

I view anyone doing any bit of any dungeon to be their prerogative, none of us own the rights to do any place on our own accord without the distinct possibility someone else already had your idea. If there is a problem, its that spawns just do not populate quickly enough to handle the amount of people doing them. It takes too long for things to get back to a spawn level worth doing them, and people get anxious when they miss such rare opportunities because someone else got their first.

+1

[kyoung2200]

YOU GET A +1!
YOU GET A +1!
EVERYONE GETS A +1!

But seriously, I'm with Emomina on this.

[Seniies]

I've seen this in har akir, all mobs up no doors opened and no loot, sometimes the loot dosnt respawn.