Crafting customization - an element of fun removed from the game

[suǝʇʇıɯ]

So i recently bought some monk clothes for 2k and was looking forward to pimping them out to how i wanted when all of the sudden, like a brick to the face, the script was changed and i was unable to craft them. This irked me for several reasons, i used to have alot of fun making my appearance how i wanted, but now with the ability to fully craft items for wizards, sorcerers, monks etc gone, i'm not having so much fun. I find it quite ridiculous that we can no longer craft clothing for these classes, yet a fighter wearing full plate can go under the robe selections and non-chalantly stalk about in a now leather trench coat. Customization was a key element that set PoTM apart from many other servers, and if we have the money to pay for the change, then why are we now deprived of such? These types of changes are those that slowly have the server going down hill. Consider this, without the element of customization, Wizards, Sorcerers, and monks are now forced to walk around like an Andy Warhol painting, all decked out in the same clothes, but with different color schemes. This is boring... Bring back our customization.

[Eagle882]

I completely agree, there are just somethings I really enjoy about PoTM, and that was full customization, of course, at a price.  Now with the new update on enhanced armor, it's quite limited.

[dark_majico]

This has been in place for a long time, you've only just noticed? The DMs made a decision that certain sets of clothing that grant magical ability's cannot be freely altered. This is to stop people buying an Akiri Sorcerers Gown and crafting it into a metal suit of armor, because you can do that with items with 0 AC bonus there are clothing options that appear like armour, but it shouldn't be possible. They also do not like people taking hoods and crafting them into metal helmets. Taking a gown and crafting it into, a pair of shirt and pants, just isn't something the team wants us to do, and neither is it something I want to see either, because its stupid, and I'm all for this change.

In the same way that you cant take this Scottish Fold Kitten



and craft it into...

A Saga Master system



That would also be silly, but the CEP crafting allows you to do things like that.

They cant mess with the crafting in such a way that certain options cant be chosen, so the way around that is to make some parts of the clothing uncraftable. They have allowed some leeway though, because I believe with things like the Sorcerers Gown its possible to alter the shoes, hands, belt, neck, and possible a few more minor parts, but not the main component's that give the outfit its genuine appearance.

There are plenty of threads about this floating around, this has all been discussed before, again and again, if you wanted a specific conversation about it wouldn't it be better to voice your concerns to the Community Council about the matter rather than start another topic about it?

[Thani]

I dont really mind, but if you can make a fullplate into a nice little dress I think there should atleast be movement penalties for wearing them, much like in pen and paper D&D.

[Aahz]

Put me firmly in the "yeah, its not realistic..... so what?" I could not care less if armor/clothing appearance has anything to do with what the items is. For me its all about customizing the look of your character. I believe that  visual customization of a character does far more to enhance immersion and RP than armor/clothing "realism".... and is its simply more fun to have more options.

[Avatar6666]

Put me firmly in the "yeah, its not realistic..... so what?" I could not care less if armor/clothing appearance has anything to do with what the items is. For me its all about customizing the look of your character. I believe that  visual customization of a character does far more to enhance immersion and RP than armor/clothing "realism".... and is its simply more fun to have more options.

+1

[Aduial]

Put me firmly in the "yeah, its not realistic..... so what?" I could not care less if armor/clothing appearance has anything to do with what the items is. For me its all about customizing the look of your character. I believe that  visual customization of a character does far more to enhance immersion and RP than armor/clothing "realism".... and is its simply more fun to have more options.

i agree too

[Badelaire]

I still wear an altered vanilla woodsman's outfit with my monk because the Street Fighter inspired monk range of clothes looks ridiculous and everything else seems aimed at skimpy-clad anim� kunoichi. All of which are unalterable.

[Arcane Archers]

I still wear an altered vanilla woodsman's outfit with my monk because the Street Fighter inspired monk range of clothes looks ridiculous and everything else seems aimed at skimpy-clad anim� kunoichi. All of which are unalterable.

Exactly.

[Miuo]

I dont really mind, but if you can make a fullplate into a nice little dress I think there should atleast be movement penalties for wearing them, much like in pen and paper D&D.

Leave Miuo alone! She looks amazing in her little chest plate and gown ! XD!

[tzaeru]

Put me firmly in the "yeah, its not realistic..... so what?" I could not care less if armor/clothing appearance has anything to do with what the items is. For me its all about customizing the look of your character. I believe that  visual customization of a character does far more to enhance immersion and RP than armor/clothing "realism".... and is its simply more fun to have more options.

i agree too

I don't know whether to agree or not with making stuff more customizable. Clothes that are misjudged as armors and armors thought to be priest's robes are irritating. If people roleplayed the armor clanking under the robe, then it'd be all good, but I do consider my characters being able to tell whether one's inside a full-plate armor or urchin rags. It's weird as hell that Juggernaut's Armor is crafted to look like half-naked gladiatrix's suite.

There ought to be a system that allowed more flexibility in crafting options. Not just "You can't craft this at all/You can craft everything", but something that allows only certain parts changed. That'd make it a lot more tolerable already.

[Miuo]

In doing so eventually everyone will be walking around in the same general look with just different colors. I think the crafting system is just fine, the complete customization of clothing/hoods/etc gives each person the ability to make such fit their char. I think this will just be another topic that comes down to whether to benefit Realism or to benefit Rp. One of the reasons i'm drawn to Nwn in general is for the ability to craft my look to look exactly how i want or as close to as possible.

I think  rp is better served leaving things as they are, there are already some things we cant craft, we can deal with that much. Don't think it needs to go further, if it did, it would dampen a lot of peoples rp if we were forced to wear something a specific way.

Think it kinda all falls under:
1. �Play how you like as long as you don�t impair the roleplay experience of others.�
2. �Be authentic to your character and the setting.�

Don't think people crafting their armor into a specific way really "impairs" the role play of others, seems kinda like people would get more mad at thinking someone is all unprepared because they are wearing some little gown. Then when they find out there not and get their bottoms handed to them by someone in a dress, seems like a reason why people would begin to get upset with such.

There is a lot of different sort of RP, as well as different views to what is expectable for rp. Trust me there is a lot of times iv seen some rp i didn't agree with what so ever, but meh if the RP makes the other happy and their having fun and it is not out right destroying my own RP i say "Have at it!"

Is just me thoughts :3

[ethinos]

A suit of full plate that looks like a gown is cheesing. Plain and simple. There are already rules against cheesing. If you want to be seen wearing a gown, buy some clothes. I get marginally annoyed when I see folks walking around in armor 24/7. I'm pretty sure that breaks the "Be authentic to your character and the setting" rule...

[Aahz]

A suit of full plate that looks like a gown is cheesing. Plain and simple. There are already rules against cheesing. If you want to be seen wearing a gown, buy some clothes. I get marginally annoyed when I see folks walking around in armor 24/7. I'm pretty sure that breaks the "Be authentic to your character and the setting" rule...

I disagree. Cheesing is about Rping a power or ability that is not supported in the game engine. Crafting the appearance of your armor/clothing is just choosing the look that fits your character. Nothing more. Even if someone crafts a suit of full plate so that it looks like a gown.... so what? How do you know the stats of what anyone is wearing? Why does it matter what it looks like?

Interestingly, people take normal-unprotected clothing and make it look like extremely tough armor all the time... its called a costume.  

[suǝʇʇıɯ]

Since the server is basically for mature individuals, why cant we base our crafting off from the honor system, or would that be too much to ask for? The bottom line is i could wear the absolutely ridiculous looking Caeporia Bikini beneath a monks Gi and with a hint of realism still benefit from what it has to offer. But instead, i wasted 2k on something i'd rather burn than wear. Not to mention it's not really all that fair to people just making these types of characters who are limited in crafting options when folks who have the older models of the items can freely craft their clothing. And for those who get ''irked'' about what other characters are wearing, i strongly advise you to get over it, it's their choice what they want to look like, not yours.

[HellsPanda]

it was, but then to many over to long time, took to many freedoms, so they changed it

[Aahz]

it was, but then to many over to long time, took to many freedoms, so they changed it

so.... how many is to many??   How long is to long a time? How many freedoms are you allowed before your choice it taken from you?

[k_moustakas]

+1 for free crafting

[tzaeru]

it was, but then to many over to long time, took to many freedoms, so they changed it

so.... how many is to many??   How long is to long a time? How many freedoms are you allowed before your choice it taken from you?

There were dozens of full plates looking like rags, helm's of the bat crafted into hoods and so forth. (It's a helmet! It says in the description the large bat like "ears" of it are what give the listen bonuses, so how does it suddenly change into a hood?)

I still wear an altered vanilla woodsman's outfit with my monk because the Street Fighter inspired monk range of clothes looks ridiculous and everything else seems aimed at skimpy-clad anim� kunoichi. All of which are unalterable.

This though, is of course, silly. There are no much alternatives for many clothes and armors in game and as they do happen to look like utter crap, I wish the parts of them which are not essential for the enchantments they contain would be free to craft. And clothes at least should always have robe parts attachable.

Don't think people crafting their armor into a specific way really "impairs" the role play of others, seems kinda like people would get more mad at thinking someone is all unprepared because they are wearing some little gown. Then when they find out there not and get their bottoms handed to them by someone in a dress, seems like a reason why people would begin to get upset with such.

Well, exactly. I would be pissed if my assassin attacked someone who looks like she's wearing a dress and gets his plans foiled by a full plate underneath. I do consider my assassin fully able to tell if one's wearing full plate mail, due to, you know, being an assassin you sort of learn to spot stuff like this. Or by having eyes and ears.

I disagree. Cheesing is about Rping a power or ability that is not supported in the game engine. Crafting the appearance of your armor/clothing is just choosing the look that fits your character. Nothing more. Even if someone crafts a suit of full plate so that it looks like a gown.... so what? How do you know the stats of what anyone is wearing? Why does it matter what it looks like?

Lemme show you how you know:



That does make you a little stiff in moving, and makes a bit of noise, even if you cover it up with a robe.

In NWN Full Plate gives -8 to MS and Hide.. For a reason, too.

EDIT: To continue: It's silly how something like a fine point dagger with description mentioning it's shorter than average dagger is crafted to look more like a rapier, it's silly how armor which says in the description that it's extremely heavy and of very thick, rare metal to give additional protection, is crafted to look like something a prostitute might wear on a Saturday morning.

I do wish though that certain items, at least certain parts of those items, were modifiable. But full freedom, no. I'd even disable those fully covering robes off heavy armors.

In Dungeons & Dragons, characters are not supposed to be fully and only up to the player. The characters are also partially products of their surrounding world, and use the items in it. Just like in real life. Assault rifle does not look like a pistol, and that's that.

[Emomina]

Why not just make the examine tool give the class of armor that someone is wearing? 
Something like examining my Marijan would state 'Banded Mail or equivalent' or my Reiko 'leather armor or equivalent' ?

I understand the point made about armor appearance, but much like other things, I feel its petty. or making a mountain out of a molehill.  There is limited variation between different characters as it is, i feel to lessen the amount of variation due to wanting such realism is being close minded to the detriment of the wider scheme of things. Its like creating an issue where there didn't need to be.

I swear sometimes I think we are not content unless there is a disagreement on the forum,

[Miuo]

[Shifts the focus to wanting to know she cant have a horse to ride around on with how big bloody maps are, secretly only brings it up because she has secret motives to get her pink pony]

[suǝʇʇıɯ]

It's been said above that a full plate crafted into a robe is unrealistic, but lets take a step away from that for a moment, as the whole entire purpose of the game is to provide a suspension of disbelief. Magic does not exist, werewolves and dragons dont either. These are things that are real to us as long as we're in game. A robe could indeed be draped over full plate, a hood could be worn over a helm of the bat etc. The main point that i'm trying to point out is that with the limited crafting ability that all monks will look for the most part pretty much the same. It's hard enough to build a monk and get good clothing offering monk bonuses, and now when we do, we're forced to wear them the way they are. I'm wearing a standard monks habit because the white gi looks like a bad adaption of the Gi's Ryu and Ken wear in Street Fighter, I'm wearing a standard monks habit because the Caeporia is quite ridiculous and is more like underwear. Who's to say i couldnt wear such an item beneath my gi? Who's to say i couldnt remove the top to the white Gi and go shirtless? The developers, thats who. Every craftable part has metal options in them, and if a player doesnt know when they're surpassing the line for that suspension of disbelief then it's purely something of their own morals and ethics.

[DM Tarokka]

I wonder how my popularity could fall if I started warning people for improper use of shapes of gear and colours.

This thread has just been discussed already once, it is not that anything has changed meanwhile. So, do as the any good guest who is nor appreciating the food when he goes to dinner at someone else's: eat what you can, leave what you really dislike, but do not comment

[Badelaire]

On the topic of monk clothes I think the only decent looking set I've seen is the Bhuddist inspred Saffron Robes which are like rocking horse crap (i.e. hard to find). That's ONE outfit of non-suck though I would wear Zangief's "Red Vos Bear Wrestler Pants" for shits and giggles.

[Aduial]

I Believe the problem is really simple.

In this server there is a "group of players" that like to take advantage from every single setting or script used in the current module we are playing... in order to be  more strong or simply more "cool".

The Policy of the staff in answer to this seems to be "we limit you" so you can' t do more harm, this is surely a way to solve the problem but it leads to limit all the players, that each day feel more and more at the corner, since all these limitations are ruining their fun, and i truly understand that.

However in this way we are only avoding the problem and not solving it, this mean that the problem will come up again in the next topic, where a certain player using a combination of classes, equipments  and spells very near the line of something against the server rules, owned another player.

It will not be more simple to start and take some actions against those players, that are particularry abusing of the possibility that the system is giving  them?