The +5 Varnishes

[tzaeru]

Hi.

Are the +5 varnishes really necessary? I don't really see their purpose, except in that they remove the only protection pure non-AC hogging wizards and sorcerers have. Premonition and Greater Stoneskin are anyway hit over by strong fighters or sneaking rogues and removed in matter of rounds, so the +5 varnishes seem like a vast overkill. Not to mention that level 20 caster no longer has that unique capability of enchanting a +5 weapon.

And to the same breath, the ingredient required for these varnishes are tad bit too common. Skillful rogues can farm 3 of them every few hours, and the rest of high level characters in a bit more time.

[High_Priestess_of_Tinsel]

One word.
Perfidus.

[tzaeru]

One word.
Perfidus.

If you're referring to the demonologists, I never needed +5 weapon against them. Knockdown/hiding behind obstacles does the work, and even better does Lesser Spell Breach.

I don't know what else there would really require a +5 weapon.

EDIT: Adding that I've never actually done the place in full.

[Shadowthrone]

I would prefer if Greater Magical Varnishes offered a +4 enhancement and I barely play casters myself. +5 enhancement is never a "must have" in PvE, all they really mean to me is that my rogue can melt down a mage in seconds.

I would also prefer if the reagents spawned in high level dungeons rather than mid level dungeons. Not only do I think they are too common but it means the mid level dungeons are constantly farmed by high levels for the reagents. Unfortunately the only high level dungeon available at the moment is Perfidus, but personally I'd prefer it if they spawned there.

[Vespertilio]

While I've made a lot of varnishes with my pc alchemist, I've yet to use a +5 enhancement varnish.  I have not found the arcane based reagents easy to come by but I have always opted for ic trade and purchase of the hearts with other pcs over farming them as a player of a rogue, so this may be why.  While my pc could creep up and stab hags selectively, it is counterproductive imo to do so.



 

[shadymerchant]

You would have to use a lot of varnishes to make it a regular weapon in Perf and PVM in general. That, of course, is the problem. They are fairly common, and they are the extreme end of the balance spectrum. I still see mages casting premo as they stand around these days, as if it would even matter when I have the varnishes on hand to end them in seconds. It makes high level DR spells a non factor. Even at +3 varnishes would cut through nearly every form of DR, including that of greater undead, and +4 is basically for the AB boost. +5 is just overboard, and entirely too common to boot.

[ethinos]

You would have to use a lot of varnishes to make it a regular weapon in Perf and PVM in general. That, of course, is the problem. They are fairly common, and they are the extreme end of the balance spectrum. I still see mages casting premo as they stand around these days, as if it would even matter when I have the varnishes on hand to end them in seconds. It makes high level DR spells a non factor. Even at +3 varnishes would cut through nearly every form of DR, including that of greater undead, and +4 is basically for the AB boost. +5 is just overboard, and entirely too common to boot.

I agree.

[Avatar6666]

I dont know , it helps my monk hit alot of things he would not do so because of his monk abilities. Thier just not for swords anymore . I like them.

[HellsPanda]

+5's are excessive, there really is no need for them. And if they are to exist. They should drop from creatures like malthor, zalaph and prisoner

[ethinos]

I don't think we really need anything above +3.

[tzaeru]

I don't think we really need anything above +3.

Personally I'd drop +3 varnishes and make players have to rely on race/alignment specific weaponry or witchcrafts in overcoming damage reductions. But then, I am biased due to having a wizard and would happily settle with +4 varnishes being the maximum.

[Telkar]

Lesser +1, strong +2, greater +4. Sounds fine. Or change the whole system and make five types from +1 to +5. But that would be overly complicated.

I agree +5 varnishes would be cool coming from Zalaph's dragon blood and things similarly epic. And maybe increase such a DC to 40, if say +4 were 35.

The enchanting system becomes a factor in it too though, but I don't really know that system.

[HellsPanda]

Enchanting is mostly a factor worth investigating if you have a heavy weapon or � bow. Or something rare like kukri.

[Bad_Bud]

Since the varnishes have come in, there have been less mages terrorizing the outskirts from within premonition and acid sheath, so I'm not sure it's that bad of a thing.  It might not be fair, but it's probably also similarly not fair how powerful implosion is, and that doesn't require any component at all to use.

[Avatar6666]

Since the varnishes have come in, there have been less mages terrorizing the outskirts from within premonition and acid sheath, so I'm not sure it's that bad of a thing.  It might not be fair, but it's probably also similarly not fair how powerful implosion is, and that doesn't require any component at all to use.

+1

[GunzNrosZ]

I agree with everyone else on this matter. I'd like ot see the + drop to max +4. This way having a powerful witch around would mean a bit more then just not having to use their own resourses for warding.

I think all we need now is Spell Mantle in potion form and spellcasters will be completely obsolete.

Let see  right now a pure fighter or Barb can do this : Any Stat potion they need, Hevanly Armor, Clarity, Haste, +5 Varnish/ AB boost and Armor/shield boost,Elemental Warding or Varnish based warding, whetstone, Firepipes. Then all the fighter needs to do is throw a Disjoiner at its opponent and spam knockdown and the fights over.

Ps: I think a drinkable Ultravision is needed too.!!

[kanedellesk]

That's all based on the assumption that A) The fighter/barbarian has a friend who can make that stuff, B) Has the coin for it, and C) probably has rogue levels since some of the items listed require UMD.

[shadymerchant]

Since the varnishes have come in, there have been less mages terrorizing the outskirts from within premonition and acid sheath, so I'm not sure it's that bad of a thing.  It might not be fair, but it's probably also similarly not fair how powerful implosion is, and that doesn't require any component at all to use.

Do you really think that is the cause? We've gradually lost all the high level outskirts stormers, and "well there's varnishes now.." was likely not the reason. Except, of course, in the case of Mayvinds gnome, who in fact was killed as a result of varnishes cutting through his DR. So, uh, i guess you could say varnishes enabled the killing off of what remained of those who would have.

But this is getting off topic. Fighters have many toys now, and they were introduced for balance and convenience purposes and have largely succeeded. I don't want to take them away. It's simply a matter of a commonly crafted material invalidating not only a level 8 spell, but the entire means of defense for a class.  That is overboard.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Just for overview, and I realise this is an OOC giveaway, but how many of you carry around the +5 varnishes and how many of them do you have?

[Vespertilio]

Currently my merchant pc has 10 Greater Magical Varnishes in stock.

[Kenkaku]

Currently have 4 Greater Magical Varnishes on Boyo.

[Mailbox0000]

I just think they should be a bit harder to come by.

[HellsPanda]

I have made around 200 +5 varnishes, 40 or so after iron golems where removed as a source, i am erring on the low side now. All this was as niko. Last. batch i brewed was 10 that had Been gathered over � few days

[Vespertilio]

I have made around 200 +5 varnishes, 40 or so after iron golems where removed as a source, i am erring on the low side now. All this was as niko. Last. batch i brewed was 10 that had Been gathered over � few days

O.o

[shadymerchant]

I only have two. I know it's all i need for a major engagement amd i can easily replace them. I've given away about 10 hag hearts.