Rollplaying XP.

[Vaku]

I don't think Darktide stated what he was in favour of, making it 7 on the nay side. There are about 300 unique CD keys logging on each week, so I'd say the number of frequent players is at least half of that. Finding seven players for more or less any cause wouldn't be difficult.

Okay, so the statistics are 300 CD keys. 150 are active.
The forum boasts  20 individuals who have said their piece now including Emomina who is from the looks of it on the 'leave RP Xp alone' side..  That leaves 130 other active players who have not made their voice heard including people like Castra who agrees with me but is not active on the forums. What we have is a representative population.

Taking 7 from 20 we have the opinions split 11 and 7 with 3 being 'Ambiguous or Neutral' now including Darktide. The seven people in this thread are not very far from a popular advantage over the eleven. Now by the reasoning in your quote, "Finding seven players for more or less any cause wouldn't be difficult." would equally apply to say "Finding eleven players for more or less any cause wouldn't be difficult." Where is the threshold that makes the amount of players gathered a difficult thing to do? Point being, this is too passionate a problem for both sides to be ignored. Give it time and all three numbers will rise, but do not wait for everyone to throw their hands up in the air and say, "**** I don't care anymore!" to where everyone is too stress to make change. We all have a pretty good glimpse of all of our concerns and many of us are asking for a change. Do not let this topic smudge this server's record of a responsive development team when clearly many of us are calling for a relatively small amount of tweaking.

Give it two weeks to see how players behave after increasing RP xp. If you do not notice a significant change for the better than post your findings and return the system to normal. As players we want to see your results and not blanket statements.

[Illy-Dan]

     A monk is one class where it makes sense. Depending on the player prerogative and character background, it would make sense for a monk to talk and spar with another player at the top of a mountain and gain personal enlightenment (a level.) Another that makes sense is the bard...

You seem to be heading close to Second Edition's glorious days of class-specific XP bonuses there.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but it should be noted that there are more classes today than there were in Second Edition and even so the Class Specific Bonus XP was *heavily* borked from the moment go.  Thieves (The Granddaddy of Rogues) got 1xp for every gold piece the loot taken from a dungeon was valued at.  'nuff said.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Okay, so the statistics are 300 CD keys. 150 are active.
The forum boasts  20 individuals who have said their piece now including Emomina who is from the looks of it on the 'leave RP Xp alone' side..  That leaves 130 other active players who have not made their voice heard including people like Castra who agrees with me but is not active on the forums. What we have is a representative population.

Taking 7 from 20 we have the opinions split 11 and 7 with 3 being 'Ambiguous or Neutral' now including Darktide. The seven people in this thread are not very far from a popular advantage over the eleven. Now by the reasoning in your quote, "Finding seven players for more or less any cause wouldn't be difficult." would equally apply to say "Finding eleven players for more or less any cause wouldn't be difficult." Where is the threshold that makes the amount of players gathered a difficult thing to do? Point being, this is too passionate a problem for both sides to be ignored.

The thing here is that it's less likely that those not upset with the current state goes here to post.

Give it time and all three numbers will rise, but do not wait for everyone to throw their hands up in the air and say, "**** I don't care anymore!" to where everyone is too stress to make change. We all have a pretty good glimpse of all of our concerns and many of us are asking for a change. Do not let this topic smudge this server's record of a responsive development team when clearly many of us are calling for a relatively small amount of tweaking.

But what should we do? Increase the RP XP gains and go against our own beliefs and the majority who've voiced their thoughts on it?

Give it two weeks to see how players behave after increasing RP xp. If you do not notice a significant change for the better than post your findings and return the system to normal. As players we want to see your results and not blanket statements.

We've just had about a year and a half of drastically increased RP XP gains. It's always hard to say, but I didn't really feel it made that great a difference, if at all.

[Vaku]

I generally agree, though even a bard in DnD is much more than someone who makes a career of entertaining, especially as the bard attains higher levels. As has been argued already, there is some progression in doing more mundane things, but since levels is in fact - like it or not - mostly about combat prowess. To me, it then makes perfectly good sense that experiencing combat is the best way to improve your skill.

Okay, so what is coming up is that some of us are focusing on abilities that a 'level up' offers, and rightly we should. However, we are not altogether recognizing the weaknesses the system offers. Because it is a game whose original motto is go in a dungeon and rid evil, it does not recognize the trends of many player wishes on this server.

You will find in fact that everything about Neverwinter Nights is about combat, and that only dialog options are free from that grouping. However, on this server we go beyond the traditional hack and slash methodology that the Neverwinter Nights mechanics support. And on this server you will find that there is little in the way of persuasive dialog with NPC's. We intermingle not with the script but with eachother on an RP server. We have created a community, one that goes beyond the rigidness of NPC's and combat.

With a level up, as RP'ers we do not merely see the value of the feat 'Still Spell' but an opportunity for our character, when at the gallows, asked if he has any last words, 'uses' his feat aquired through leveling to summon a hook horror to terrorize the crowd and make an escape. A 'level up' offers so much more to the role player than the mere adventurer.

With a level up as an RP'er, we gain a masterful fortitude by surviving the Barovian diet. To an RP'er, there is more to a level up. Do not lock yourself in seeing the combat ability that increases with a level up, but look at how the dedicated RP'er will use her new found level for RP in future hour long sessions. Because when you see someone who RP's the rogue that goes from highwayman to bank thief, you know that that their story does not revolve around going to the Wolf Cave ten times to gain a level. They will remain dedicated to their IC responsibilities and go out to RP robbing a player, not to go abuse their newfound combat abilities. (Because when it comes to abusing a system it is another topic entirely about how the DM's are supposed to respond to abuse.)

[Vaku]

     A monk is one class where it makes sense. Depending on the player prerogative and character background, it would make sense for a monk to talk and spar with another player at the top of a mountain and gain personal enlightenment (a level.) Another that makes sense is the bard...

You seem to be heading close to Second Edition's glorious days of class-specific XP bonuses there.  Not necessarily a bad thing, but it should be noted that there are more classes today than there were in Second Edition and even so the Class Specific Bonus XP was *heavily* borked from the moment go.  Thieves (The Granddaddy of Rogues) got 1xp for every gold piece the loot taken from a dungeon was valued at.  'nuff said.

That is not what I am heading towards. I am requesting that XP from RP in an hour long session matches XP from killing NPC's for an hour.

The scenario with the monk was to merely demonstrate how one would make a habit to purely RP his vocation rather than going to the Port sewers to kill assassin bugs for a level. There is a drastic difference in how this affects the RP of someone who plays their character IC all the time.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Well, to reiterate, I can definitely see what you mean and I'm all for alternative ways of gaining XP, but I don't think the RP XP system alone is suitable for fully sustaining that, being so indiscriminate.

Concerning combat and levels, what I said is that it was mainly about combat prowess. In terms of roleplay opportunities, I think far the majority of those that are not directly connected to combat are available at fairly low levels too, not the least because of our increased number of feats system. It doesn't mean that we have to be 'locked' in XP equalling combat, but it has some merit to give it some precedence.

But in the end, you shouldn't disregard that given the soft XP cap ends up eliminating most differences either. Perhaps it's the perception of the progression that is off? The structure of the XP messages received? I'm not entirely sure.

[HellsPanda]

to be honest Level wise the most fun to be had is from around level 8 - 16 on this server

[Vaku]

Well, to reiterate, I can definitely see what you mean and I'm all for alternative ways of gaining XP, but I don't think the RP XP system alone is suitable for fully sustaining that, being so indiscriminate.

Concerning combat and levels, what I said is that it was mainly about combat prowess. In terms of roleplay opportunities, I think far the majority of those that are not directly connected to combat are available at fairly low levels too, not the least because of our increased number of feats system. It doesn't mean that we have to be 'locked' in XP equalling combat, but it has some merit to give it some precedence.

But in the end, you shouldn't disregard that given the soft XP cap ends up eliminating most differences either. Perhaps it's the perception of the progression that is off? The structure of the XP messages received? I'm not entirely sure.

Thank you for being such a great mediator and I think we are getting closer to the core of the issue at hand. A more transparent rest message might alleviate some problems. However, I have a question. As it stands now, would slaying mobs my level for an hour give me xp in the ballpark of me rp'ing for an hour?
It would be hard for me to test this in game, I would have to lower the amount of time to maybe ten minutes since I personally cannot kill things for an hour straight without resting in between, but I can talk that long without resting.

About the soft cap that is in effect, it does not do much to produce equality for the player that has an hour to play. When I log on with an hour to play (Motivation pending), I have the choice to either RP for an hour or to kill mobs for an hour. If xp for killing mobs is greater than xp gained through rp, and I chose to Rp, I would have to say that the system is not very fair, considering how I have framed xp in my previous posts. In that hypothetical I would be more propelled to kill mobs for my time online than rp.

I said that motivation was pending in the beginning, but in the end, it comes down to how I want to be rewarded as a player for the time I have online. Do I want to become more powerful to make my character's narrative make sense or do I want to continue RP'ing a sort of bland unleveled persona longer for the hopes of reaching my goal?

I think there needs to really be an even playing field for RP XP and Killing XP. When told that we use our levels for combat, I look at the good RP'ers on this server and look at how they use their levels with lower leveled players. Morticia Corpori for example is something like a lvl 15 wiz MPC, right now. The RP had with her comes from the fact she is a vampire, and that is the bulk of it. However, the lethality of her being a lvl 15 does not show up until she is attacked. Point being, her ability in combat (lvl 15 wiz) does actually much less for good player interaction. Her being a lvl 15 wiz merely explains to the player who finds it IC or OOC, that she would be a dangerous vampire to fight, when we really don't strive for constant fighting on this server, but rather good RP. What Morticia's levels explain is that she is no longer some fledgling of an undead, but earned her power from feeding and interacting to become a more powerful vampire. This is how the RP'er ought to envision a level. In this case a lvl 15 wiz vampire.

You can break down a number of player's levels into RP reasoning and every time you will get an explanation that is worth more than, "Oh, experience just makes them more powerful is all."

[Vespertilio]

to be honest Level wise the most fun to be had is from around level 8 - 16 on this server

I think that depends on what you consider fun, I'm playing a level 20 and still experiencing as much ic fear and ooc fun as I did nearly three years ago when I was new player with a pc below level 13.  Ic goals that have less to do with ooc motivations to attain X feat or Y level, never really cease to be interesting and challenging because as much as I enjoyed the 'ding!' I still enjoy attaining self set ic goals.  I think it varies for each player but I would say that playing a level 20 pc doesn't necessarily mean becoming overpowered to the degree or bored to the extent that there is no reason nor motivation to play the character.  It is no doubt relative to ooc skill in building and class chosen, some are naturally more powerful than others, but level 17+ doesn't have to mean by default that the real fun has passed when one considers ic weakness, motivations and fears.

[HellsPanda]

true, but to many want to be level 20, without considering the fun is actually the travel. Now I greatly enjoy doing dungeons, I will never hide this fact, and I enjoy doing them mostly in groups. So for me the fun starts to drop of at around level 16/17, since at those levels you will have issues finding a good IC sensible team. It is also why I say between 8 and 16, since I dislike the level of options available to the average low level character.

I should have said, I find the most fun levels to be between 8 and 16, but I do not always formulate myself to the best of my abilities.

As for why dungeons should gain more XP compared to equal amounts of "RP" [in the regard that we mean talking/emoting], besides the Risk vs Reward thing. I remember reading in one of the books, that the reason adventurers gain more XP more rapidly, than non adventurers, there is only so much you can learn from theoretic, and discussion in a given field, before you need to learn practical application. Basically there is a limit to how good I can get at fixing a machine, by talking about it and discussing it with my friends, without actually doing it.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Thank you for being such a great mediator and I think we are getting closer to the core of the issue at hand. A more transparent rest message might alleviate some problems.

I'll try tweaking that part perhaps, giving more weight to roleplay XP perhaps so you don't get slapped in the face with a "nothing has happened".

However, I have a question. As it stands now, would slaying mobs my level for an hour give me xp in the ballpark of me rp'ing for an hour?

It would be hard for me to test this in game, I would have to lower the amount of time to maybe ten minutes since I personally cannot kill things for an hour straight without resting in between, but I can talk that long without resting.

It's hard for me to say the relative ratio even, because it also varies a lot what you gain from combat depending on the challenge. In general though, the ratio is something like one to three or so, I'd say.

About the soft cap that is in effect, it does not do much to produce equality for the player that has an hour to play. When I log on with an hour to play (Motivation pending), I have the choice to either RP for an hour or to kill mobs for an hour. If xp for killing mobs is greater than xp gained through rp, and I chose to Rp, I would have to say that the system is not very fair, considering how I have framed xp in my previous posts. In that hypothetical I would be more propelled to kill mobs for my time online than rp.

I said that motivation was pending in the beginning, but in the end, it comes down to how I want to be rewarded as a player for the time I have online. Do I want to become more powerful to make my character's narrative make sense or do I want to continue RP'ing a sort of bland unleveled persona longer for the hopes of reaching my goal?

Granted, it does not produce equality for those having just an hour to play XP wise. If that propels you toward killing mobs rather than roleplaying, it's your choice really. Part of the point is though that we don't want XP to be considered an OOC reward mechanism.

I think there needs to really be an even playing field for RP XP and Killing XP. When told that we use our levels for combat, I look at the good RP'ers on this server and look at how they use their levels with lower leveled players. Morticia Corpori for example is something like a lvl 15 wiz MPC, right now. The RP had with her comes from the fact she is a vampire, and that is the bulk of it. However, the lethality of her being a lvl 15 does not show up until she is attacked. Point being, her ability in combat (lvl 15 wiz) does actually much less for good player interaction. Her being a lvl 15 wiz merely explains to the player who finds it IC or OOC, that she would be a dangerous vampire to fight, when we really don't strive for constant fighting on this server, but rather good RP. What Morticia's levels explain is that she is no longer some fledgling of an undead, but earned her power from feeding and interacting to become a more powerful vampire. This is how the RP'er ought to envision a level. In this case a lvl 15 wiz vampire.

You can break down a number of player's levels into RP reasoning and every time you will get an explanation that is worth more than, "Oh, experience just makes them more powerful is all."

You should be careful not too easily passing judgement on what a proper roleplay explanation is for someone attaining higher levels of power and what is not. It is highly subjective beyond this point, but I feel there's many that join in on the notion that you cannot simply (or very forwardly) interact and talk your way to being a level 15 wizard. You can talk and interact yourself into power in the way of attaining a powerful position, attain a large amount of support for your case, strong allies etc. A bard can even perform her way into fame and glory - but I don't feel it's absolutely given that this means higher level character. Even if it to some extend would make sense for certain classes, given that you can accept the notion that the powers attained by levels are mainly combat oriented, it should still make good sense that it is mainly through combat you achieve it. There's nothing counter or non-roleplay about that, it is merely a functioning entirely within the IC world.

In the name of roleplay though, and opportunities, I don't feel we should necessarily confine ourselves to combat being the main source of XP if we can find sensible alternatives that would foster the roleplay. It's simply my view, given the indiscriminateness of the RP XP system as well as the other arguments presented, that it cannot fully justify being that alternative. Of course, given the lack of current alternatives - there are quests and bounties and the rogue XP system to some extend, but it only constitute a minor alternative - the RP XP system holds the role of representing other forms of progression, at least for the moment. The current assessment in that regard is then that roughly three hours of roleplay on average contain one hour that more or less fully satisfy your characters overcoming challenges and honing her skills to be perfectly up to speed.

Does that really sound unfair?

[Threefold]

I'm willing to bet Edward Monnte got a nice chunk of RP XP for setting up, organising, and getting word out about the Governers ball. (or, IMO, should have done, even if I didn't attend )

Bringing events about like that through RP likely carry their rewards, just not sitting around chin-flapping in a pub.

[Vaku]

You should be careful not too easily passing judgement on what a proper roleplay explanation is for someone attaining higher levels of power and what is not. It is highly subjective beyond this point, but I feel there's many that join in on the notion that you cannot simply (or very forwardly) interact and talk your way to being a level 15 wizard. You can talk and interact yourself into power in the way of attaining a powerful position, attain a large amount of support for your case, strong allies etc. A bard can even perform her way into fame and glory - but I don't feel it's absolutely given that this means higher level character. Even if it to some extend would make sense for certain classes, given that you can accept the notion that the powers attained by levels are mainly combat oriented, it should still make good sense that it is mainly through combat you achieve it. There's nothing counter or non-roleplay about that, it is merely a functioning entirely within the IC world.

I suppose there is little in the cause for arguing against the mindset Neverwinter Nights was made in, let alone all of DnD, which was 'go with a group of friends, or by yourself and save the world against all odds.' It is the adventure to defeat all adventures, although fosters that sort of 'grind, grind, grind' mentality in the gamer when all prowess is tied to your level. Were I to start from scratch I would move all abilities from being attached to a single level and adopt the sort of rule that if you use it, you grow in it. If you do not use that ability, it does not grow. It is part why I find success in your crafting systems and their separate experiences. Of course that is not the end of it. An RPG with "perfect" mechanics will need a lot of trial and I doubt would be tied ultimately to the ideal of the traditional level, but rather layered on the success of many systems.

In the name of roleplay though, and opportunities, I don't feel we should necessarily confine ourselves to combat being the main source of XP if we can find sensible alternatives that would foster the roleplay. It's simply my view, given the indiscriminateness of the RP XP system as well as the other arguments presented, that it cannot fully justify being that alternative. Of course, given the lack of current alternatives - there are quests and bounties and the rogue XP system to some extend, but it only constitute a minor alternative - the RP XP system holds the role of representing other forms of progression, at least for the moment. The current assessment in that regard is then that roughly three hours of roleplay on average contain one hour that more or less fully satisfy your characters overcoming challenges and honing her skills to be perfectly up to speed.

Does that really sound unfair?

Does it really sound unfair? I think it leaves an unnecessary challenge to the player who finds joy in RP. Like all of us know being familiar to games, a lot of our joy comes from a sense of accomplishment, and for all gamers, it is almost a truism that we strive for levels. The games with the most replay value always have a little treat for you at the end of the player's session. In fact, some would argue that we end our session because we reached that treat. Does "One more level." or "Man, sooo close." sound familiar to you?

But in the way of alternatives, I think we are doing really well, but can do better. If looking for inspiration, I suggest looking to your DM team. I have read that during DM encounters, towards the end they give players a fair chunk of xp. Given the scenario, I am sure a few of this server's team can come up with an encounter they did, where they thought, "This would be cool if players did this regularly." For instance, say before the bounty system, a DM made an encounter where he had players go out and collect a criminal's head for of course a reward. From there he brought that scenario to the scripters, or better yet, the players, and they said, "Hey, I'd love to see more of this, but too bad there needs to be micromanagement for it, say we make it into a system."This is somewhat accomplished by the forums but is a bit of a nebulous hassle, since not everyone is on the same page. If you can brief some of the DM's to look out for systems for players to get xp, you will no doubt find systems that will be fun for us players to flock to for fun and overall, reward.

Personally, I think a nonlethal (maybe lethal) gauntlet for players to go into and brave every once in awhile would be awesome, and for it to be from a solo to team effort.

In the case that that idea would be extracted from a DM would be that they say, "Hey, so I just did this thing where I had players go and face the challenges of such and such, and I gave them an XP reward at the end. I think it would be awesome to see more of this without so much of my presence needed."

So thank you for your time and consideration. ;D You guys deserve a reward for that dedication. Wasn't there a donation link somewhere?

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

You should be careful not too easily passing judgement on what a proper roleplay explanation is for someone attaining higher levels of power and what is not. It is highly subjective beyond this point, but I feel there's many that join in on the notion that you cannot simply (or very forwardly) interact and talk your way to being a level 15 wizard. You can talk and interact yourself into power in the way of attaining a powerful position, attain a large amount of support for your case, strong allies etc. A bard can even perform her way into fame and glory - but I don't feel it's absolutely given that this means higher level character. Even if it to some extend would make sense for certain classes, given that you can accept the notion that the powers attained by levels are mainly combat oriented, it should still make good sense that it is mainly through combat you achieve it. There's nothing counter or non-roleplay about that, it is merely a functioning entirely within the IC world.

I suppose there is little in the cause for arguing against the mindset Neverwinter Nights was made in, let alone all of DnD, which was 'go with a group of friends, or by yourself and save the world against all odds.' It is the adventure to defeat all adventures, although fosters that sort of 'grind, grind, grind' mentality in the gamer when all prowess is tied to your level. Were I to start from scratch I would move all abilities from being attached to a single level and adopt the sort of rule that if you use it, you grow in it. If you do not use that ability, it does not grow. It is part why I find success in your crafting systems and their separate experiences. Of course that is not the end of it. An RPG with "perfect" mechanics will need a lot of trial and I doubt would be tied ultimately to the ideal of the traditional level, but rather layered on the success of many systems.

Not at all a bad idea, but unfortunately a bit too ambitious to fully pursue even for this server I'm afraid. We've discussed similar thoughts on the development team in the past. Crafting is one of the things we deliberately kept separate under this notion.

Does it really sound unfair? I think it leaves an unnecessary challenge to the player who finds joy in RP. Like all of us know being familiar to games, a lot of our joy comes from a sense of accomplishment, and for all gamers, it is almost a truism that we strive for levels. The games with the most replay value always have a little treat for you at the end of the player's session. In fact, some would argue that we end our session because we reached that treat. Does "One more level." or "Man, sooo close." sound familiar to you?

Hmm, I'm not completely sure I share the absoluteness of your impression. Even on non-RP-XP servers, you'll find many characters that spend far the majority of their time, if not all of it, conducting non-combat roleplay. This isn't to say that the desire to progress is by any means a forbidden sentiment nor should it be disregarded entirely, but that it isn't absolutely connected to enjoying roleplay or need to be. In other words, even if there are inclinations, we shouldn't feel obliged to encourage such inclinations and orient our entire balance toward it. It has to be weighted against a multitude of other factors, most of them named in this topic already (IC world integrity, non-OOC-reward-oriented-roleplay, sensible risk-reward relation etc.)

On the other hand, I do agree with you to some extend too - it shouldn't be so that the player has to at constant prioritize between progressing their story through non combat roleplay and gaining levels. This is in part why the XP system is so relatively lenient compared to what the soft XP cap actually permits. As I've stated in other topics, about 90% of characters are over time progressing at effectively the same rate given this, and of those last 10%, it's more or less entirely characters that are played less than 10 hours each week. This is also why I think this may in large be a matter of perception rather than the actual state of things.

But in the way of alternatives, I think we are doing really well, but can do better. If looking for inspiration, I suggest looking to your DM team. I have read that during DM encounters, towards the end they give players a fair chunk of xp. Given the scenario, I am sure a few of this server's team can come up with an encounter they did, where they thought, "This would be cool if players did this regularly." For instance, say before the bounty system, a DM made an encounter where he had players go out and collect a criminal's head for of course a reward. From there he brought that scenario to the scripters, or better yet, the players, and they said, "Hey, I'd love to see more of this, but too bad there needs to be micromanagement for it, say we make it into a system."This is somewhat accomplished by the forums but is a bit of a nebulous hassle, since not everyone is on the same page. If you can brief some of the DM's to look out for systems for players to get xp, you will no doubt find systems that will be fun for us players to flock to for fun and overall, reward.

Personally, I think a nonlethal (maybe lethal) gauntlet for players to go into and brave every once in awhile would be awesome, and for it to be from a solo to team effort.

In the case that that idea would be extracted from a DM would be that they say, "Hey, so I just did this thing where I had players go and face the challenges of such and such, and I gave them an XP reward at the end. I think it would be awesome to see more of this without so much of my presence needed."

Well, it's definitely always worth considering. As developers, we do try to keep our eyes out for new ideas as well as listening to all the suggestions given. Often, the difficulty turns out to be that only few have sufficient insight in what could be feasible, sometimes resulting in suggestions we could not hope to implement, but equally often I wager, suggestions that aren't made because they are deemed impossible when they weren't.

More things are in the plans though already, but the limiter is also available amount of developer time. With risk of sounding somewhat bitter (so please bear with me), it would be great having more time to doing all these small additions rather than having to at constant defend our fundamental values and right to continue to develop things against attacks from all sides. This is by no means addressed at you, but a plea to an increased understanding of the difficulty of our situation.

So thank you for your time and consideration. ;D You guys deserve a reward for that dedication. Wasn't there a donation link somewhere?

Hah, well, I think we got what we need at the moment, thanks. We only ask when it's something we need for the server after all. If something comes up, we'll surely let you know...

[jugnaut]

Roleplay alone will get you levels. Seriously I do not understand what the fuss is about.

I have gotten multiple characters to level 8-9 with nothing more than roleplaying and minks. Its not as FAST, but it does not have near the risk either, so how is it not enough XP?

Try to do that now is all I'm saying lol.  I'm sure it was a while ago.  And I too remember those days.  The way the systems are now, that would take you years.

[HellsPanda]

it actually wouldn't if you where deidicated to it.

[Threefold]

Incidentally, dungeoning is rarely THAT profitable. On top of expenditure in consumable items and the possibility of someone becoming dead or, worse, impaired, you'd probably get money faster just doing easy bounties and herbing.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Roleplay alone will get you levels. Seriously I do not understand what the fuss is about.

I have gotten multiple characters to level 8-9 with nothing more than roleplaying and minks. Its not as FAST, but it does not have near the risk either, so how is it not enough XP?

Try to do that now is all I'm saying lol.  I'm sure it was a while ago.  And I too remember those days.  The way the systems are now, that would take you years.

While I don't like to reveal too numbers to avoid speculating, with two hours of roleplay each day - avoiding all other forms of gains - it would take 25 days. The fastest possible otherwise would be 17 days.

[KBlackwell]

Between the two characters I've been currently playing-  One dungeons while the other has never killed anything.  One of the has both more fang as well as levels up quite a bit faster, it seems, and it's not the one that has to fight things on a daily basis.  This could just be because time seems to go a lot faster once I get into the roleplay though. [shrugs]