Incoming change - Raise and resurrection ingredient requirements.

[Metal_ash]

question is there any diffrence between using a diamond and a small diamond?

I know the diamond be worth more in fangs then the small diamond, so you need much fewer diamonds to raise someone and more of the small diamonds.

example: 1 diamond maybe for example be worth like 2000 fangs and then need 5 such to resurrect a level 20 character as that would cost 10.000 to do. Small diamonds maybe be for for example 300 fangs and that means them be good to use when raise/resurrect them of lower levels or you need many of them to do the same with a higher level character.

//Cheers!

[Aahz]

Since appraise skills affect the selling price of the diamonds, how are we supposed to know if we have enough GP worth of diamonds in order to cast the spell?

Also, how are we supposed to know IG how much GP worth of diamond we need? or do we just ask the person being raised in tells for their level?

[Rex]

Trial and error I would say.  Now....Components for Everything!  That would make Rex Happy.

~Rex

[Metal_ash]

Since appraise skills affect the selling price of the diamonds, how are we supposed to know if we have enough GP worth of diamonds in order to cast the spell?

Also, how are we supposed to know IG how much GP worth of diamond we need? or do we just ask the person being raised in tells for their level?

I am certain we all soon will have learned exactly how much a diamond and a small one is worth even if some may buy them for less then others. About what the level the character is that is to be raised be... well i guess it be a bit of a guess, just add more diamonds if there was to little of them for the spell to take effect. If your cleric indeed know the one he is willing to raise with his gods powers and think of him worthy to breath again...i do think you also have a clue about his level.

[mayvind]

smaller diamond base worth 400. big diamond base worth 2000

1-4 level normal dead need 1 small diamond, impaired need 1 big diamond
5-8 level normal dead need 2 small diamonds, impaired need 2 big diamonds. Or mix with smaller diamond to worth of 4000 do the math.

9-20 levels etc..etc.. use diamonds worth 900 to 2000 per normal raise and ressurection is 4500 to 10000 worth of base diamonds value.

You get diamonds cheaper from NPCs if you have higher appraise but base value is the same.

[Aahz]

There are three types of diamond I found though. Diamond (4000gp, when I looked)  Large Diamond (2,200gp) and Small Diamond (440gp). Does the 4000  diamond just factor into things the same as the others?

[respawnaholic]

1st We don't know if they are putting in various priced diamonds yet. I would guess there will be a selection of diamonds to buy for this system.
Fair enough. He said diamonds so I interpreted that literally. If he had said gems I would probably interpret that the same way you do.
2nd It won't affect lowbies, since the NPCs won't change much, as the primary way of raising/ressurecting lowbies is and always has been is Liz.
It wont affect true lowbies since their liable to buy it in the morninglord temple anyway. Im talking about low-mids. people capable of wandering around and dieing in the middle of nowhere.
3rd It forces Clerics to actually have to use coins, instead of just using it on random things they dont really need.
Again I like the notion of spell components, but why just clerics, and why just two spells? Also It doesnt force clerics to spend coins. It forces PLAYERS to spend coins making sure their carrying around the minimum ammount of diamonds for a cleric to use on their ressurection.
4th it will allow us to formulate a joint ritualistic style as we will need to put out atleast 1 diamond to raise a body, Wee for RP!!!.
People that Rp rituals of raising the dead will continue to do so. People that cast a spell to raise the dead will continue to so so after getting the diamonds necessary to do so.
5th It will make the difference between good and evil clerics more profound, as a truly good cleric would me more inclined to not charge a price, while the Evil will probably charge an exorbiant cost
It will make the difference between have and have-not clerics more profound. Alot of raising the dead is done for OOC considerations.

[Phosphorus]

I think outright CHARGING players for a raise/ressurection is a step down the right path, but the wrong direction.

I come from server environments that actively support needing more than a scroll/spell to raise someone, but adding currency into the equation adds what I like to call a "need to have" mentality. Players, from then on, will go out of their way to ALWAYS have few diamonds on them at a time, if not large amounts of gold to cover it. This adds an certain OOC aspect to it, as no one wants to be caught dead without anything to support raising them.

My suggestion to the dev: instead of making an arbitrary monetary cost to Clerics/players who raise/get raised, make an intrinsic cost to be raised. A penalty on when the spell is cast to the Cleric would keep clerics from spamming the spell over an over again, such as an immediate exhaustion state after the spell is cast. The raised person in question would then be subject to a sort of 'ressurection sickness' that impairs them for awhile after death. This encourages:

1) A roleplay reaction to being raised/raising people
2) Keep people from thinking twice about pushing themselves into a situation where they may be threatened with death. Being stuck with a penalty to stats/exhaustion state would put a damper on adventure if you are not utmost careful and prepared for the Mists.
3) Keep clerics from throwing raises around like candy and carefully consider how they use them on people that they may/may not raise.

Evil clerics would be selfish to not exhaust themselves and could STILL charge to do so while good clerics may take the burden for the greater good.

Thoughts?

[Norture]

I love this idea, simply because

A) It will lead to more RP realism of a Cleric who serves a specific god/goddess to consider who they should raise.
B) It makes raise dead and ressurection have more meaning than just being tossed out like candy.

I am curious however if there will be different priced diamonds added to store though, since currently I think the ones sold are 5k? So, that can get pretty expensive if the corpse is damaged and comes back undead. 10k for a raise? Yikes! Lulz.

[confusion]
This is more expensive than fireworks, but you are for it?

[Tamtam]

I think outright CHARGING players for a raise/ressurection is a step down the right path, but the wrong direction.

I come from server environments that actively support needing more than a scroll/spell to raise someone, but adding currency into the equation adds what I like to call a "need to have" mentality. Players, from then on, will go out of their way to ALWAYS have few diamonds on them at a time, if not large amounts of gold to cover it. This adds an certain OOC aspect to it, as no one wants to be caught dead without anything to support raising them.

My suggestion to the dev: instead of making an arbitrary monetary cost to Clerics/players who raise/get raised, make an intrinsic cost to be raised. A penalty on when the spell is cast to the Cleric would keep clerics from spamming the spell over an over again, such as an immediate exhaustion state after the spell is cast. The raised person in question would then be subject to a sort of 'ressurection sickness' that impairs them for awhile after death. This encourages:

1) A roleplay reaction to being raised/raising people
2) Keep people from thinking twice about pushing themselves into a situation where they may be threatened with death. Being stuck with a penalty to stats/exhaustion state would put a damper on adventure if you are not utmost careful and prepared for the Mists.
3) Keep clerics from throwing raises around like candy and carefully consider how they use them on people that they may/may not raise.

Evil clerics would be selfish to not exhaust themselves and could STILL charge to do so while good clerics may take the burden for the greater good.

Thoughts?

...I like this idea, if the exhaustion effect is increased.. dramatically. I'm talking an hour or two of bad exhaustion, without the option to just.. rest it away.
Along with that, maybe, an increase based on how many spells you cast? Meaning, if you raise a field of soldiers, you best be willing to chill out on that character for a while, because you ain't goin' nowhere.

[Strigoi]

i agree that death should be something to fear from ALL players, and this also helps address the inflation with gold on our server. sounds like a good way to knock out two birds with one stone... Literally!  

it will definitely need an extensive test run before anyone can truly criticize it.

[Miuo]

I think outright CHARGING players for a raise/ressurection is a step down the right path, but the wrong direction.

I come from server environments that actively support needing more than a scroll/spell to raise someone, but adding currency into the equation adds what I like to call a "need to have" mentality. Players, from then on, will go out of their way to ALWAYS have few diamonds on them at a time, if not large amounts of gold to cover it. This adds an certain OOC aspect to it, as no one wants to be caught dead without anything to support raising them.

My suggestion to the dev: instead of making an arbitrary monetary cost to Clerics/players who raise/get raised, make an intrinsic cost to be raised. A penalty on when the spell is cast to the Cleric would keep clerics from spamming the spell over an over again, such as an immediate exhaustion state after the spell is cast. The raised person in question would then be subject to a sort of 'ressurection sickness' that impairs them for awhile after death. This encourages:

1) A roleplay reaction to being raised/raising people

2) Keep people from thinking twice about pushing themselves into a situation where they may be threatened with death. Being stuck with a penalty to stats/exhaustion state would put a damper on adventure if you are not utmost careful and prepared for the Mists.

3) Keep clerics from throwing raises around like candy and carefully consider how they use them on people that they may/may not raise.

Evil clerics would be selfish to not exhaust themselves and could STILL charge to do so while good clerics may take the burden for the greater good.

Thoughts?

I by far prefer this idea to that of the diamonds. . .Since when given the chance to i do rp that spell casting is exhausting specially so in excesses and may result in harm of the caster when pushed past their limit. I think it's a quite fair alternative. Though, would that only effect Clercis. What about items and scrolls?

[Delete Me]

This agitates me a little bit, as a cleric.

However, It would be a hell of a lot less agitating if implimenting this change REMOVED the 'badly impaired' condition.  Just.. a thought?  

[marlewebber]

Will attempting a raise without a Diamond handy result in an Auto-fail and Zombie situation?

[Delete Me]

Though notably, I like the exhaustion after raise idea the best.   You're just adding consequences, and essentially a gold drain on everyone. . that in the end, will merely serve as a pain in the rear instead of a useful hinderance.   It wont be much of  gold sink.

Forgot where I was going with this!

I just like the exhaustion idea.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Will attempting a raise without a Diamond handy result in an Auto-fail and Zombie situation?

no, the spell won't be cast at all without them

[Anarcoplayba]

This agitates me a little bit, as a cleric.

However, It would be a hell of a lot less agitating if implimenting this change REMOVED the 'badly impaired' condition.  Just.. a thought?  

Nah. It makes the Ressurrection useful.

But... I'd suggest: make the failed attempt to not use the diamond.

It would even allow evil players do create undeads and control them via control undeads.

[Bluebomber4evr]

And the server finally goes completely off the rails  

[youtube=480,390]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9zJHvCsmOI[/youtube]

[Norture]

Will attempting a raise without a Diamond handy result in an Auto-fail and Zombie situation?

..... YESSSSSSSSSSSS. That is the best idea. Make a zombie army.

[Bluebomber4evr]

This agitates me a little bit, as a cleric.

However, It would be a hell of a lot less agitating if implimenting this change REMOVED the 'badly impaired' condition.  Just.. a thought?  

Nah. It makes the Ressurrection useful.

But... I'd suggest: make the failed attempt to not use the diamond.

It would even allow evil players do create undeads and control them via control undeads.

No, because even the "failed" resurrection is still casting the spell, which would still require the proper components. If that seems too harsh, then well....Welcome to Ravenloft!

[shadymerchant]

This system is in place on another server I sometimes play on now and then (City of Arabel) and it seems to work alright for them, why the doomsaying? I honestly don't know why we need to be spoon fed on a gothic horror server, it's supposed to be cruel and unforgiving.

I enjoy the storytelling aspects of playing. The impression i leave on other players. I will never find value in scripts and limitations that push realism. it is at most a hinderance i avoid, and in some cases time consuming at the cost of roleplay. But it's not my server, so whatever.

[Norture]

But the important question now is, could a cleric use resurrection to purposely make zombie players now?

If so, I might roll an evil cleric.

[Bluebomber4evr]

But the important question now is, could a cleric use resurrection to purposely make zombie players now?

If so, I might roll an evil cleric.

the zombie thing still works the same way and will not change; it won't depend on whether you have diamonds or not

[Bluebomber4evr]

This system is in place on another server I sometimes play on now and then (City of Arabel) and it seems to work alright for them, why the doomsaying? I honestly don't know why we need to be spoon fed on a gothic horror server, it's supposed to be cruel and unforgiving.

I enjoy the storytelling aspects of playing. The impression i leave on other players. I will never find value in scripts and limitations that push realism. it is at most a hinderance i avoid, and in some cases time consuming at the cost of roleplay. But it's not my server, so whatever.

Strawman argument. Nobody ever said anything about "realism" (because guess what? there's no such thing as realistic resurrection ). This was done for gameplay balance and having a sense of consequences, as well as adhering to D&D rules (that was actually just a coincidence, but it made it easier to implement).

[Threefold]

Suggestion:

Raises costing amounts proportional to how far the target differs from your beliefs.

A LG priest raising a LG character is free as before, for instance. Everyone one-step away costs half the 'full' price (In example, NG or LN). Everyone else costs full.

Optionally, make it impossible to raise more than two steps from your alignment (An NG priest cannot raise LE or CE)

This again encourages knowing Priests that abide by your faiths or close enough.