Fullplate unfairness

[Badelaire]

How many knights were line soldiers in battles? as only noble man could affort fullplate. I dont think 40lb is very heavy armor to fear in war as modern combat gear weights more than that. ofcourse there was heavy plates for cavalry, so heavy they couldnt mount their horses, they had to be lifted on their horse with craine. If they fell of the horse they couldnt stand up..

errr...in the feudalism, the kings gave lands to the nobles to buy their loyalty, and to make them equip an army. There were laws given out about how many men they had to equip.
Like say: For each village, the noble had to equip out 10 footmen or one knight, or 5 archers or whatever. Same goes to the free towns, they had to equip a certain amount of soldiers too, or make other services.
So the nobles sometimes equipped others.
And there were a lot of different types of full plates, in some you could even fight on foot, in some you were needing a crane
to be put on your horse, like there were different types of steels. What really made a difference in the full plates was, how big the reduction of the limb movement was.
The greater the restriction the better the protection, and the possibility for the crane usage, the lesser the restriction the worse the protection, but you were not like a turtle when you fell of your horse.

I'm sorry to say but the crane winching stuff is total bunk, it's along the lines of an urban legend. The cost of full harness (to give it its proper name) was comparable to the levies and taxes raised in a small town for one year hence why only the nobility wore it. The weight of it (roughly 90lbs), though substantially more than reflected in NWN, was distrubuted around the body in such a way that you were not incredibly encumbered by it. Your average modern paratrooper carries in excess of that just on his back and there are many accounts of fully armoured men vaulting up into their saddles to show off.

Those military minded nobles who spent a lot of their time in a state of constant warfare would be conditioned to wear their armour to such a degree that only the discomfort and overheating from it would bother them. It protected you the maximum amount possible with the least hinderance to mobility otherwise it defeated the point of armour in the first place if it rendered you a helpless target. Realistically full harness would only ever be donned prior to pitched battle, it could take hours just to prepare the associated gambeson and under layers that would absorb the percussive impact on the actual steel and it was notorious for attracting fleas in the joints in poor weather campaigns.

I tried to model my main PC's full plate armour to resemble something you could practically wear for most of the day with the least amount of hinderance based on designs the Landsknecht wore with only the cuirass (excluding the fauld of lames since NWN makes it rigid and very skirt-like) and upper vambrace and cuisses being evident. After a hard day killing beasties he'd still stink and I often have him lunging head first into the nearest water source to get rid of the smell of stale sweat, metal and blood. To whit, if you walked around all day and night top to toe in unventilated armour and tried to woo the laides, your smell alone would bring tears to their eyes. The system's fine and spoils you!

[respawnaholic]

How many knights were line soldiers in battles? as only noble man could affort fullplate. I dont think 40lb is very heavy armor to fear in war as modern combat gear weights more than that. ofcourse there was heavy plates for cavalry, so heavy they couldnt mount their horses, they had to be lifted on their horse with craine. If they fell of the horse they couldnt stand up..

errr...in the feudalism, the kings gave lands to the nobles to buy their loyalty, and to make them equip an army. There were laws given out about how many men they had to equip.
Like say: For each village, the noble had to equip out 10 footmen or one knight, or 5 archers or whatever. Same goes to the free towns, they had to equip a certain amount of soldiers too, or make other services.
So the nobles sometimes equipped others.
And there were a lot of different types of full plates, in some you could even fight on foot, in some you were needing a crane
to be put on your horse, like there were different types of steels. What really made a difference in the full plates was, how big the reduction of the limb movement was.
The greater the restriction the better the protection, and the possibility for the crane usage, the lesser the restriction the worse the protection, but you were not like a turtle when you fell of your horse.

I'm sorry to say but the crane winching stuff is total bunk, it's along the lines of an urban legend. The cost of full harness (to give it its proper name) was comparable to the levies and taxes raised in a small town for one year hence why only the nobility wore it. The weight of it (roughly 90lbs), though substantially more than reflected in NWN, was distrubuted around the body in such a way that you were not incredibly encumbered by it. Your average modern paratrooper carries in excess of that just on his back and there are many accounts of fully armoured men vaulting up into their saddles to show off.

Those military minded nobles who spent a lot of their time in a state of constant warfare would be conditioned to wear their armour to such a degree that only the discomfort and overheating from it would bother them. It protected you the maximum amount possible with the least hinderance to mobility otherwise it defeated the point of armour in the first place if it rendered you a helpless target. Realistically full harness would only ever be donned prior to pitched battle, it could take hours just to prepare the associated gambeson and under layers that would absorb the percussive impact on the actual steel and it was notorious for attracting fleas in the joints in poor weather campaigns.

I tried to model my main PC's full plate armour to resemble something you could practically wear for most of the day with the least amount of hinderance based on designs the Landsknecht wore with only the cuirass (excluding the fauld of lames since NWN makes it rigid and very skirt-like) and upper vambrace and cuisses being evident. After a hard day killing beasties he'd still stink and I often have him lunging head first into the nearest water source to get rid of the smell of stale sweat, metal and blood. To whit, if you walked around all day and night top to toe in unventilated armour and tried to woo the laides, your smell alone would bring tears to their eyes. The system's fine and spoils you!

Not so much an urban legend as a reevaluation of existing historicl data. Most historians now are of the opinion that tournament jousting armors were signifigantly heavier and buikier than standard military plate. Since the joisting was considered a sport and entertainment in a very controlled environment it would make sence. Even with armors of such thickness it was common for serious injuries to occur.

[Badelaire]

Only the exceedinly rich could afford suits designed soley for mounted/foot combat (such as tonlets) and suits for tilting (joust). Most (later period) armours, if the owner was inclined to joust, had interchangeable pieces which were mixed and matched to fit the occasion. The refined craftsmanship of tempered steel isn't cumbersome slag iron plates as most would think.

[Ercvadasz]

thanks for the update:) my knowledge about these facts are a bit lacking.
The above mentioned about the armours fine details you gave, i did not know, i knew only that there were different types of armours, including different types of full plates.
About the crane stuff it aint a joke:) Even in one of Bud Spencers movies you can see it. Allthough as Respawnaholic told they were used more like for jousting. Allthough i aint sure, because i heard about very heavily armored cavalries too. Someone once told me about existing full plates over 100 pounds. [had some friends who were in this stuff:)]
Nonetheless in our land they were fast dropped, because Hungary was waging war with the turks since the end of the 14th and beginning of the 15th century, in which the turks allready introduced firearms, to their regular mercenary groups, the janichars. Therefore the heavy cavalry, which before has turned the tide of battles, was now worthless. There are countless historical records about, how our heavy cavalries suffered defeat from the turks, and how a new strategy had to be figured out:)

[Springer]

I think I ve read somewhere that full plates that didnt encumber those who were wearing it, were introduced slightly before firearms hitted the battlefields making them useless fast, because they couldnt stop the bullets.

[Arcus]

Or we could work under the assumption that fantasy fullplate has different properties from mundaneworld fullplate and work within the confines of the game.

[respawnaholic]

Or we could work under the assumption that fantasy fullplate has different properties from mundaneworld fullplate and work within the confines of the game.

I believe that is what most of us are saying.

[Badelaire]

Or we could work under the assumption that fantasy fullplate has different properties from mundaneworld fullplate and work within the confines of the game.

Fantasy full plate makes women look hot yet still ward off attack with the least amount of protective coverage. [Nod nod]