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Author Topic: Fullplate unfairness  (Read 9310 times)

HellsPanda

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2011, 12:08:09 PM »
my cleric has that one, I keep it in a magic bag except for dungeons

Thundron

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2011, 12:22:26 PM »
its primary benefit is that Dex based AC is unreliable, so a full plate is more reliably protected

except all touch attackers will rape you  ;)

Time_Stomped

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2011, 02:24:06 PM »
its primary benefit is that Dex based AC is unreliable, so a full plate is more reliably protected

except all touch attackers will rape you  ;)

QFT.  I wish we had an alchemical item to stave of rust monsters touch attacks and it makes me cry that there isn't.
Istavan Donner

respawnaholic

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2011, 05:28:48 PM »
Thats assuming alot of things.
1) that you happen to have a wizard friend in your back pocket.
2) That said wizard has a maximised cats grace memorised.
3) the maximised cats grace memorised is actually ment for someone besides the wizard.
4) Said wizard friend is always ready and available whenever you are and isnt off ninja looting a dungeon solo.
So yes. if all of thses contingencies are met then its very easy to get dex based AC above and beyond what plate would provide.

could be cleric too ^^ and im sure you can use heavier armor if you dont have that pocket Mage around.

and why to use padded? cause its 1 ac more than clothes.

Yeah....it cant be a cleric either unless you choose one of the lamer domains. For some reason default cleric spells DONT include Cats Grace.

Springer

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2011, 05:30:34 PM »
What is more surprising to me is that druids have only bull strength from  "animal spells".
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Emomina

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2011, 09:42:34 PM »
Yeah....it cant be a cleric either unless you choose one of the lamer domains. For some reason default cleric spells DONT include Cats Grace.

Balance and design of the ruleset from the beginning, Cleric weakness is reflex save, cats not a spell for them because of that
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Ternce

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2011, 10:06:41 PM »
How is War a lamer domain?

Arcus

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2011, 11:28:01 PM »
Anything that isn't water and healing are lamer domains, don't you know anything about clerics?

Threefold

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2011, 07:01:16 AM »
Yeah....it cant be a cleric either unless you choose one of the lamer domains. For some reason default cleric spells DONT include Cats Grace.

Balance and design of the ruleset from the beginning, Cleric weakness is reflex save, cats not a spell for them because of that

Cleric weakness is reflex save?

But most reflex-save-based spells are things like Lightning Bolt and Fireball, and therefore a large portion can be negated with Protection from Elements, or of course the whole thing with Spell Resistance. The reflex spells that cause movement penalties (Entangle, Grease) can also be negated with Freedom of Movement.

Don't think it's a very crippling weakness. :P

Arcus

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »
How to kill clerics, episode one.
Lesser Spell Breach removes Spell Resistance
Great Thunderclap knocks him down.
Your choice of damage spells spammed on him finishes him off.

respawnaholic

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2011, 10:50:02 AM »
Yeah....it cant be a cleric either unless you choose one of the lamer domains. For some reason default cleric spells DONT include Cats Grace.

Balance and design of the ruleset from the beginning, Cleric weakness is reflex save, cats not a spell for them because of that

I know. Its been that way since the game camo out. I just always thought it was odd since Cast Grace is the ONLY attribute buff they dont have.

Arcus

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2011, 11:20:36 AM »
The NWN spell lists are weird, is the problem. See also: Wizards have more elemental spells than druids, and certainly more variety of them.

tzaeru

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2011, 11:25:58 AM »
How to kill clerics, episode one.
Lesser Spell Breach removes Spell Resistance
Great Thunderclap knocks him down.
Your choice of damage spells spammed on him finishes him off.

How to counter the mentioned tactic (and every other tactic in game), episode one.
Greater Sanctuary
Buff
KD spam the wizard to death.

Reflex is a poor weakness. Not only is wizard's best damage spell unsaveable (Isaac's), the same weakness is also shared by fighter, wizard/sorc, and few other classes. Even in PnP I'd find this a really stupid weakness in comparison to the benefits of the class, tho PnP puts a little more restrictions on a cleric and is anyway overall better balanced than NWN.

Anyway: What goes to full-plate supposedly offering the best protection, well, this might be a DnD only trait. In the real world the heaviest armors were only used in tournaments, since on the battlefield the hindered mobility of the most protective armors would have killed you quick.

Other armors more usable -> Great! Having dex 15 is actually useful, with less total weight carried by wearing a half-plate.

HellsPanda

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2011, 11:31:58 AM »
why are you using a spell breach vs a cleric?

tzaeru

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2011, 11:36:30 AM »
why are you using a spell breach vs a cleric?

Removes spell resistance and lesser spell breach is handy as it's often found in scrolls.

However if the cleric is fully buffed up and you happen to lack Timestop, the best plan of action is to retreat; If he isn't, no spell breach is needed to begin with. :o

Threefold

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2011, 12:06:31 PM »
Can we have lessons for killing Clerics for Rangers? :P

HellsPanda

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2011, 12:21:54 PM »
slaying clerics for rangers?

Be smart attack the cleric when he is resting

KoopaFanatic

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2011, 12:30:45 PM »
slaying clerics for rangers?

Be smart attack the cleric when he is resting

Or team up with another cleric and stand back while the two of them do all the work.

Arcus

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2011, 12:34:46 PM »
Quote
nP puts a little more restrictions on a cleric and is anyway overall better balanced than NWN.
Divine Metamagic, Persistant Spell, pick your all day buffs. Extra turning and Nightsticks if you want more cheese.

I've had a pretty good experience vs clerics on NWN, a surprising number of them, hilariously, work off of the idea that "I'm a cleric no one can defeat me" in pvp and don't know how to handle getting dispelled, timestopped, or even Evard's'd. The rest of them don't run around with their buffs up all the time. Especially not FoM. Granted, very few servers I've played on have left the spell list as mostly untouched as Ravenloft has, so stuff like Bigby usually ends up with a hilarious reflex save or something.

Ercvadasz

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2011, 12:36:35 PM »
What is more surprising to me is that druids have only bull strength from  "animal spells".

nah, they have owls insight too...:)
on level 9...which gives level/2 to your wisdom as a bonus while the spell is in effect hour/level
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respawnaholic

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2011, 04:11:12 PM »
Can we have lessons for killing Clerics for Rangers? :P

You don't...ever.

HellsPanda

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2011, 04:13:38 PM »
every class can easily kill every other class, it just requires patience and brains

Thundron

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2011, 10:42:48 PM »
How many knights were line soldiers in battles? as only noble man could affort fullplate. I dont think 40lb is very heavy armor to fear in war as modern combat gear weights more than that. ofcourse there was heavy plates for cavalry, so heavy they couldnt mount their horses, they had to be lifted on their horse with craine. If they fell of the horse they couldnt stand up..

respawnaholic

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2011, 09:15:34 AM »
every class can easily kill every other class, it just requires patience and brains

Yeah.....I've heard the French army can take the German army too.  :mrgreen:

Ercvadasz

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Re: Fullplate unfairness
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2011, 09:58:23 AM »
How many knights were line soldiers in battles? as only noble man could affort fullplate. I dont think 40lb is very heavy armor to fear in war as modern combat gear weights more than that. ofcourse there was heavy plates for cavalry, so heavy they couldnt mount their horses, they had to be lifted on their horse with craine. If they fell of the horse they couldnt stand up..

errr...in the feudalism, the kings gave lands to the nobles to buy their loyalty, and to make them equip an army. There were laws given out about how many men they had to equip.
Like say: For each village, the noble had to equip out 10 footmen or one knight, or 5 archers or whatever. Same goes to the free towns, they had to equip a certain amount of soldiers too, or make other services.
So the nobles sometimes equipped others.
And there were a lot of different types of full plates, in some you could even fight on foot, in some you were needing a crane
to be put on your horse, like there were different types of steels. What really made a difference in the full plates was, how big the reduction of the limb movement was.
The greater the restriction the better the protection, and the possibility for the crane usage, the lesser the restriction the worse the protection, but you were not like a turtle when you fell of your horse.
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