Author Topic: @mark remove?  (Read 1464 times)

Threefold

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@mark remove?
« on: January 12, 2011, 08:06:25 AM »
Mark system is absolutely brilliant, first of all. One of my favourite systems i've ever seen on NWN.

But is there a way to remove markers? If not, could there be one?

A similar command like @markremove that gets rid of all markers within, say, 5ft of your PC.

Could be used to remove no-longer relevant marks, RP rubbing things from walls (say if someone wanted to remove all of the Cellar Dwellers! coal markings, they could remove the mark and replace it with one saying something like "Scrubbed Wall : This patch of wall has recently been washed down with a rag and water, assumably to remove something."

Also if a marker is incorrectly placed, it could be removed and re-applied to fix typos or such.

Sidhel

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2011, 08:20:02 AM »
Pretty sure you can initiate a dialog with the mark and select "Remove"

Or you can bash it.
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Threefold

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2011, 08:36:21 AM »
....Wow, really?

Disregard me, then!

Feronius

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2011, 09:34:50 AM »
When you click it you get the option "Brush away" as well as "Leave" or "Inspect / Examine"
(Don't sue me on the spelling, I know it's something along those lines.)

And hell yeah, I absolutely adore that system. Simply genius.
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Vespertilio

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2011, 11:21:09 AM »
It's a great system except when you have examples of some using @mark six to eight times to make the same mark on one map.   @mark seems to be like marking territory for some as if they were a dog putting it all over the neighborhood. Not to mention the things like "this ams tree",  "this ams rock" that have no ic description or purpose.  Or the one that made just as little sense; "cat poop ashes"  as if I'm Sherlock Holmes and know that those ashes were once cat poop?  (it's like all those emotes where I'm suddenly psychic and know what a pc is thinking)  Or using @mark to describe things that don't exist in game.  I don't think it's a good use of @mark to say here's a corpse I mutilated and sacrificed etc, when there is no corpse.  If you want to leave bodies of dead npcs, kill an npc, THEN leave a mark.
    I've seen some fantastic examples of it but most are done on the same level as "killroy was here" and that detracts more than it adds.  Also, I don't see how anyone can be cursed for removing a mark, that just seems ridiculous and another example of misuse.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 11:43:59 AM by Vespertilio »


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Threefold

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2011, 11:52:52 AM »
   I've seen some fantastic examples of it but most are done on the same level as "killroy was here" and that detracts more than it adds.  Also, I don't see how anyone can be cursed for removing a mark, that just seems ridiculous and another example of misuse.

Eh, most I've seen are good. I don't know how much lag is caused per marker. I'm sure if it starts to be an issue some kind of limit can be implemented, I'd imagine.

BrightLights

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2011, 11:57:13 AM »
...So how do you propose fixing that, other than telling others what basically amounts to 'you're doing it wrong'? Honestly, that seems like a lot of personal complaints.

And if it bothers you that much, you could always just brush it away. It's not an option limited to the person who created the @mark.

I honestly believe it's an awesome system, helps out with a LOT very much. Love it, love it, love it.

Bad_Bud

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 08:59:43 PM »
I wouldn't mind something like a limit of 4 @marks per person per area.  It would cut down on the spam like the "deep scratches obviously made by a cat" found on everything.

On another note, as a usage suggestion, I would suggest still using paper to leave advertisements.  Unless it's specifically stated by the @mark that it's written on a certain surface, it doesn't make sense to see a huge paragraph about how there's a party tomorrow, floating somewhere in the grass.


Emomina

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 09:01:35 PM »
want to see something done. its really becoming a spam fest  :ahem:

Bad_Bud

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 09:32:47 PM »
Unrelated suggestion!

Perhaps there should be an amount of time required (an animation that plays before the mark is placed, like in crafting) to place a mark, and the animation time could depend on the length of the message.  This would at least prevent someone from slapping a macro and placing a bunch of marks.  Right now there's no cooldown and you literally can set about 50 in the span of ten seconds.

It would also make it more apparent when someone is placing a mark, instead of seeing a group of three people with their arms crossed, then they walk away and there's a mark there... somehow.


314159265

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 09:59:51 PM »
I for one feel the current system is perfect in every way and should be left intact. It is great without restrictions as it allows so much flexibility and expression. Please, don't start begging for limitations just because of what you personally feel is "right" and "wrong". Just as with normal roleplay - if you feel that someone is breaking the mood with his marks, send him an in-game tell.

In fact I have just started a thread for this specific purpose. Marks are just another form of role play and they deserve a mention akin to "Thank you for the positive roleplay experience" thread. We are a mature community and I would like to believe capable of solving issues with @mark command without scripts to keep us in bounds.

Emomina

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2011, 10:29:18 PM »
I would like to believe capable of solving issues with @mark command without scripts to keep us in bounds.

Is there a way to know who is the one that puts "a flower" , "a tree" or "Robby wuz here" ?  on any given day there is about 5-7 of these in the outskirts alone, if the server has not been reset in a while.  About the coal markings in the sewer, its ok, but I feel people are taking liberty with a system that was intending to let someone know what had happened.  So that long after a scene had been cleaned up you could leave a marking to set the appropriate mood of what you see beyond the tileset. What it is being used as is oftentimes akin to graffiti, which is beyond the scope of what it was intended for, but may have some merit, its just difficult to police it.

Vespertilio

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2011, 10:40:23 PM »
From the in game "Emotes, Checks and Commands"

"@mark use this command to leave behind a marking for other players to examine........Please do not use this command to leave OOC remarks or place things that would require any special equipment or remedies, but have an atmospheric and descriptive purpose only"


The use of ooc explanations at the end of an @mark description claiming the remover will be cursed, placing @mark to describe things which aren't there such as a paragraph describing a dead garda in the road when there is no body, or an elaborate sacrificial scene where there is nothing present but the @mark (no bodies, no placed items, nothing else but the @mark), mists  trailing to a certain direction where none are present, I would consider as clearly falling under 'abuse'.  That isn't my opinion, that is based on the in game statement as to use of @mark.


Placing a half dozen or more @marks which all say the same thing on one map, is a bit more grey and might fall under the realm of personal opinion.  So, I personally think it adds to lag and overkill when thrown about with a macro text to create the same mark on every available surface.  This is from some one who has loved the coal marks saying cellar dwellers, but when I see ten of those in an area that I can rotate my camera and hit tab.....again I consider that less atmospheric and more akin to pissing on every available surface to make a mark.


Also there's no way to send anyone an in game tell because there's no way to tell who did anything, as stated above, pcs stand about, then walk off and suddenly there's an @mark that wasn't even rp'd or emoted out ic.  It simply appears.

The note making capability hasn't ever seen anything remotely approaching this level of misuse, I sort of attribute that to the effort required to buy a quill and write up a note.  If you do all that a player tends to be pretty serious about their message, they had to pay for paper, consider what they were writing and why.

 Perhaps the sheer ease of @mark and the ability of using a command in macro means that @mark gets tossed about far more often and that many are done in a less than atmosphere enhancing manner.


Also, I do brush a lot of marks away ic, when the marks can actually be treated as ic.    In the cases of  "this ams tree" it wasn't even ic because there was no description, no explanation, no atmosphere, so I felt no need to rp anything out.




« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 11:24:48 PM by Vespertilio »


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BrightLights

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2011, 10:49:03 PM »
I don't know. I've run into @marks that were bread crumbs, @marks that were patches of ghostly cold that led to a dead body and a mark that said "HELP US", @marks that were a description of a ghastly murder of several people with blood placeables everywhere, @marks of graffiti, @marks of dirt piles, @marks of scratches, @marks of threats carved into wood...

I fail to see why this is not atmospheric--if a character is going to graffiti everywhere, then that's IC. If a cat scratches somewhere, that's IC. It's also perfectly IC to take out your anger on this on Outlanders and bully them into cleaning up the graffiti--whether they did it or not. ;3

I'd rather stop seeing people debate over rules and how things are meant to be used OOC and see them fix it IC, have them affect their character, and have them draw others into even more RP involving it, and using it as an icebreaker with other PCs. If it is, of course, OOC, there's nothing stopping someone from just brushing it away.

Bad_Bud

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Re: @mark remove?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2011, 01:29:30 AM »
If a cat scratches somewhere, that's IC.

It's not entirely IC if the mark feeds assumptions to a character. The deep "obvious" cat scratches mark, for example. We're in a rural area full of animals that can scratch things, and the fact the mark tells us something is obvious is telling our character what to think, and I personally think it would be weird for a cat to create deep scratches.

Anyway, I know I'm hammering the cat one pretty hard, but it's a good example.  Please only mark what a character can detect through their five senses.  Nothing more.  I know we sometimes want people to pull out a particular message from a mark, but you can't force these things.  Leave personal commentary out of the description of an @mark.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 01:31:15 AM by Bad_Bud »