Author Topic: Mining and Smithing Feedback  (Read 3124 times)

Ternce

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Mining and Smithing Feedback
« on: December 18, 2010, 10:54:22 AM »
Hi!  I've spent a fair amount of time with the mining and smithing system and wanted to put in some input on some things that bother me.

At the moment, Tin is the deadliest resource to acquire (edit:  apart from coal), since it's always guarded, but bronze is actually worse than copper in terms of quality when you actually make it.  It keeps all the negatives, but loses the +1 Attack Bonus vs. Fey.  Also, copper weapons and bronze weapons that are player made are completely inferior to ones you find.  Though it is possible to sell bronze weapons to the Vallaki trading house, the pattern for chain mail costs 31-ish gold to a character with 0 appraise and the reward for making bronze chainmails is 30 gold.  I'd like to see a little incentive for making bronze weapons and armor other than "sift through the garbage to get to steel" because right now, making bronze is worse than buying a plain weapon or suit of armor from a vendor.

Improvements I'd like to see for crafted goods:

Copper:  Fine, or modified to be identical to found copper items.  As an electrician who uses copper daily, I appreciate the negative saving throws vs. electricity.
Bronze:  Bumped up to a "normal item"  with no stats increases or penalties.
Iron:  80% weight reduction isn't terrible, but 1-2 bonus damage for weapons and like +1 AC vs. Slashing or something would be nice for the armors.
Steel:  Fine

Also, the rewards at the trading house are just fine for bronze spears and horseshoes, with a decent profit margin to offset the time spent smithing, as if it were a real job, but I'd like for the reward for bronze chainmails be increased slightly to offset the price of the template.

As far as advancing and improving the template system, I'd like to see vendors with a race and dialogue check for your  smithing level, that will sell templates for "Masterwork" for all other races, and "Dwarven Quality" for dwarves that would make the item have stats comparable to Masterwork and Dwarven Quality items you find with maybe a plus 15 or plus 20 to base DC to create.


On a mining note, the only reliable place to get iron is in an established mine, like the Ghalkis mine or Dvergheim.  Dwarves are suspicious of other races to begin with and fiercely territorial of their mines.  If a non-dwarf or even a dwarf who was not of their clan came down into the mines and started hauling out ore, there would be a great bloodletting.  I imagine the Bellegarde trading company would be equally homicidal to claimjumpers.  I don't know how this would be fixed, since every smith who has ever played here has probably used those two places to level up their craft, but I would like to see more untapped or abandoned mines so people don't have to go into established mines and start stealing.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, love the mod.  God bless.

-Terrance
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 10:58:34 AM by Ternce »

Zedrik

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 12:11:50 PM »
I agree with much of what you said. Especially the whole... Copper, Bronze, just garbage to sift through to get to the real stuff. It's kind of annoying to have to make those when no one will even look at them. Even iron is mostly useless to try to sell. And steel, ungilded, can also be a pain. Since many seem to want silvered steel or nothing. i was actually thinking about this issue and how to rework the crafted items to be more useful at all levels. But i never really came to anything.

I'd personally like to see some kind of bonus a crafter would get if he/she only crafted in his specialty. A smith who only smelted/smithed/gilded, a herbalist who only herbalised, alchemist who only alchemised, etc. The supercrafters still bug the crap out of me. But I highly doubt anything will be done about it. So... I'll shut up now.

As for the dwarves. Technically, that mine is Strahd's, as is the rest of Barovia. And their king knows it and knows to play it cool. Besides, letting people mine down there is a small price to pay for all the others that go down and attempt to stop the shaking.

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herkles

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 12:25:37 PM »
Har'kair I think should be filled with bronze deposits, of course guarded but the domain seems to be one to use bronze age technology. I would imagine that iron is the main metal of choice in barovia. I like player ran economies so seeing more people use other players for crafts is something I like to see more of.

As for the mine, as Zedrik said, it is the property of strahd who could destroy the dwarven 'kingdom' if he wanted to. There is also the haunted Wagner mines, but not sure what is exactly there though.


Zedrik

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 01:32:04 PM »
Har'kair I think should be filled with bronze deposits, of course guarded but the domain seems to be one to use bronze age technology. I would imagine that iron is the main metal of choice in barovia. I like player ran economies so seeing more people use other players for crafts is something I like to see more of.

Does bronze occur naturally? If not, tin and copper deposits in Har'Akir would be rather nice.

As for the mine, as Zedrik said, it is the property of strahd who could destroy the dwarven 'kingdom' if he wanted to. There is also the haunted Wagner mines, but not sure what is exactly there though.

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Rogue Pooka

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 02:11:05 PM »
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Shadow Fey
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Ooh!  How well do copper weapons work on them?  It could be that copper weapons are not so "useless" after all....   :shock:


Also, I rather like bronze arrows.  With that extra +1 to damage, they're very nice to have until I can come across some steel arrows again.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 02:12:53 PM by Rogue Pooka »

Zedrik

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 02:38:00 PM »
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Shadow Fey
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Ooh!  How well do copper weapons work on them?  It could be that copper weapons are not so "useless" after all....   :shock:


Also, I rather like bronze arrows.  With that extra +1 to damage, they're very nice to have until I can come across some steel arrows again.

Arrowheads are so tedious to make cause no one ever wants like 1 or 3. They always want like 100. And have to pound each unit out one at a time.

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Rogue Pooka

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 02:43:36 PM »
Yeesh.  If these people honestly need to burn through 9,900 arrows between shopping trips, I'd have to question either A) their marksmanship or B) their choice of prey.  What are they shooting at?  Gargantuan stone golems?   :shock:

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 04:51:10 PM »
Spoiler: show
Shadow Fey
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Ooh!  How well do copper weapons work on them?  It could be that copper weapons are not so "useless" after all....   :shock:


Also, I rather like bronze arrows.  With that extra +1 to damage, they're very nice to have until I can come across some steel arrows again.

Arrowheads are so tedious to make cause no one ever wants like 1 or 3. They always want like 100. And have to pound each unit out one at a time.

Arrowheads are made in units? I tought you could take the arrowkeads, the batch of arrowshafts and then get the whole 99 arrows...
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Ternce

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 05:05:51 PM »
As for the dwarves. Technically, that mine is Strahd's, as is the rest of Barovia. And their king knows it and knows to play it cool. Besides, letting people mine down there is a small price to pay for all the others that go down and attempt to stop the shaking.

By this logic, I could also come into the Burgomeister's home and make love to his wife and eat his dinner, since it is technically Strahd's.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 05:08:23 PM »
As for the dwarves. Technically, that mine is Strahd's, as is the rest of Barovia. And their king knows it and knows to play it cool. Besides, letting people mine down there is a small price to pay for all the others that go down and attempt to stop the shaking.

By this logic, I could also come into the Burgomeister's home and make love to his wife and eat his dinner, since it is technically Strahd's.

Plot!
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herkles

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2010, 05:33:38 PM »
As for the dwarves. Technically, that mine is Strahd's, as is the rest of Barovia. And their king knows it and knows to play it cool. Besides, letting people mine down there is a small price to pay for all the others that go down and attempt to stop the shaking.

By this logic, I could also come into the Burgomeister's home and make love to his wife and eat his dinner, since it is technically Strahd's.

All of Barovia belongs to Strahd, every last bit of it. However, it just so happens that burgomasters are official governmental positions for strahd in cities, boyars rule in the countryside.


Anarcoplayba

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2010, 05:38:11 PM »
As for the dwarves. Technically, that mine is Strahd's, as is the rest of Barovia. And their king knows it and knows to play it cool. Besides, letting people mine down there is a small price to pay for all the others that go down and attempt to stop the shaking.

By this logic, I could also come into the Burgomeister's home and make love to his wife and eat his dinner, since it is technically Strahd's.

All of Barovia belongs to Strahd, every last bit of it. However, it just so happens that burgomasters are official governmental positions for strahd in cities, boyars rule in the countryside.

And the fact that Stahd can do whatever he wants doesn't mean you can do it too.
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Ternce

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 06:19:14 PM »
And the fact that Stahd can do whatever he wants doesn't mean you can do it too.


^  This

HellsPanda

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 06:29:15 PM »
There has been a longstanding view of the Dwarven King [the DMs] that it benefits him and his people that people go and dropkick the things under his halls in hopes of stumbling upon important solutions the dwarves need. And he lets them mine iron and coal in the mines. Also the middle and deep mine is mostly controlled by Monsters and not dwarves.

The King and the dwarves have also figured out the lucrative business of template trading is more profitable than actual smithing

Ternce

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2010, 07:13:01 PM »
I will accept HellsPanda's response on the issue.  This is why most dwarves (and the NPC dwarves) hate Moloch and look to Onar for -real- leadership.  But. . .what about the Bellegarde people then?

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 07:44:07 PM »
I will accept HellsPanda's response on the issue.  This is why most dwarves (and the NPC dwarves) hate Moloch and look to Onar for -real- leadership.  But. . .what about the Bellegarde people then?

Uhm, most NPC dwarves don't hate Moloch.

Emomina

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 08:01:30 PM »
I will accept HellsPanda's response on the issue.  This is why most dwarves (and the NPC dwarves) hate Moloch and look to Onar for -real- leadership.  But. . .what about the Bellegarde people then?

Uhm, most NPC dwarves don't hate Moloch.

He is their King!  Dwarven society reveres their kings. Many PC Dwarves don't seem to however, but there are some good dwarf PCs running about these days.
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Ternce

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 09:50:56 PM »
The reason that we (the PC dwarves) don't like Moloch is because Onar doesn't, and the vast majority of dwarven events are Onar based, making it seem like a power struggle.  Also, every time I've talked to a Dwarf guard about something, they point you towards Onar, and the last time I mentioned Moloch, one of them rolled his eyes.

Also, this thread has gotten sidetracked, and as an aside, dwarves are awesome.

Zedrik

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Re: Mining and Smithing Feedback
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2010, 10:12:55 PM »
Yeesh.  If these people honestly need to burn through 9,900 arrows between shopping trips, I'd have to question either A) their marksmanship or B) their choice of prey.  What are they shooting at?  Gargantuan stone golems?   :shock:

arrowHEADS
Smiths make arrowheads, woodworkers make arrows
woodworkers who aren't supercrafters need arrowHEADS and they usually want a lot
so they can make a bunch of arrow sheafs of 99 to sell

one ingot = one batch of arrowheads that a woodworker can use with those arrow shafts to make one sheaf of 99 arrows

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