Author Topic: Skeleton Archer.  (Read 7540 times)

DM Macabre

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2010, 10:50:23 AM »
They are undead. Them being able to hit through ghostly visage  does not necessarily mean that they have bows+1. They are just a special kind of enemy that can ignore ghostly visage, which makes them fine as they are. What counts for the living does not necessarily count for the dead - especially not in Ravenloft.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 10:53:02 AM by DM Macabre »

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2010, 11:04:03 AM »
They are undead. Them being able to hit through ghostly visage  does not necessarily mean that they have bows+1. They are just a special kind of enemy that can ignore ghostly visage, which makes them fine as they are. What counts for the living does not necessarily count for the dead - especially not in Ravenloft.

They Also hit through 5/+1 soak damage.
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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2010, 11:23:03 AM »

They Also hit through 5/+1 soak damage.

 This is the primary effect of Ghostly Visage.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2010, 11:41:38 AM »

They Also hit through 5/+1 soak damage.

 This is the primary effect of Ghostly Visage.

No, that's the effect of the Vampire Hide I was wearing.

By the way, lemme clarify and avoid pointless or useless discussions:

I tested this with 4 different damage reductions: Vampire Hide (5/+1), aurumvorax armor (5/- slashing and 5/- piercing), Noble Helmet (5/- piercing) and Ghostly Visage (5/+1).

The arrows bypass the Vampire Hide AND the Ghostly Visage, being held by the Aurumvorax Armor and the Noble Helmet.

Then, yes, pretty much we are talking about +1 arrows.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 11:46:36 AM by Anarcoplayba »
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dark_majico

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2010, 12:45:32 PM »
They are undead. Them being able to hit through ghostly visage  does not necessarily mean that they have bows+1. They are just a special kind of enemy that can ignore ghostly visage, which makes them fine as they are. What counts for the living does not necessarily count for the dead - especially not in Ravenloft.

Well thats not really the case, Ravenloft still uses the core rulesets to function.

Now back to the topic in hand. Theres a very good reason they must never appear in the loot tables very often (or at all?), because it gives crafters something to do! We have an economy which is dependant on player crafting, if you could pick up a +1 bow every day, bowyars would have nothing to do. The only way to get a decent player economy going is to keep as many as the enhanced weapons player manufactured as possible. Besides if you wanted a +1 weapon and you simply came across them around every corner where is the fun in that?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:47:46 PM by dark_majico »

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2010, 01:01:31 PM »
They are undead. Them being able to hit through ghostly visage  does not necessarily mean that they have bows+1. They are just a special kind of enemy that can ignore ghostly visage, which makes them fine as they are. What counts for the living does not necessarily count for the dead - especially not in Ravenloft.

Well thats not really the case, Ravenloft still uses the core rulesets to function.

Now back to the topic in hand. Theres a very good reason they must never appear in the loot tables very often (or at all?), because it gives crafters something to do! We have an economy which is dependant on player crafting, if you could pick up a +1 bow every day, bowyars would have nothing to do. The only way to get a decent player economy going is to keep as many as the enhanced weapons player manufactured as possible. Besides if you wanted a +1 weapon and you simply came across them around every corner where is the fun in that?

Then make the melee masterwork craftable items too. I've been searching for a masterwork rapier for MONTHS.

We have masterwork waraxes, shortswords, longswords, clubs, etc dropping, but it don't affect the economy, however, dexterity based weapons (ranged and light) rarely drop, what, imho, unbalances the setting.
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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2010, 03:50:55 PM »


No, that's the effect of the Vampire Hide I was wearing.

............
............

The arrows bypass the Vampire Hide AND the Ghostly Visage, being held by the Aurumvorax Armor and the Noble Helmet.


The Vampire hide gives the primary effect of Ghostly Visage, and to my knowledge, do not stack in any manner.
The Aurumvorax or Noble Helmet will with the above mentioned. Two effects of the same type will behave in the exact same manner. In this case, 5/+1 means a +1 attack bonus or better will overcome it. A 5/- is very different from 5/+1; It cannot be overcome by anything. It's like.. a Cayonero.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2010, 04:34:26 PM »


No, that's the effect of the Vampire Hide I was wearing.

............
............

The arrows bypass the Vampire Hide AND the Ghostly Visage, being held by the Aurumvorax Armor and the Noble Helmet.


The Vampire hide gives the primary effect of Ghostly Visage, and to my knowledge, do not stack in any manner.
The Aurumvorax or Noble Helmet will with the above mentioned. Two effects of the same type will behave in the exact same manner. In this case, 5/+1 means a +1 attack bonus or better will overcome it. A 5/- is very different from 5/+1; It cannot be overcome by anything. It's like.. a Cayonero.

So you can't say it is something tied to the ghostly visage.

The fact is simple: The arrows bypass 5/+1 damage resistance be it from ghostly visage, be it from Damage Reduction, so, it's not a "immunity to Ghostly Visage": is a +1 weapon who don't spawn in the loots what is an unbalance to the dexterity based classes.
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mayvind

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2010, 04:52:00 PM »
wow soo long discussion about pathetic skeleton's archer hitting 5/+1, let turn to real discussion i Want Radu's hammer to be normal hammer not the +1 version ! is annoying ! I want Elite and normal Vallaki garda using normal weapon not +1 version !, Elites Garda using flaming arrows .. i want it to be rotten arrows. I want Perfidus crews stop casting dispel, i want Alhoon to stop spamming it physical damage, I want ...gah there soo many i want the game to change to my wimp !

Where can i send all my listing to ?

Avatar6666

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2010, 05:16:55 PM »
I think the original post was wondering where do skeletons shop for Arrows, I mean using magical arrows for an undead that are not being able to be picked up and used against them is kinda cheesy..........Just my 2 cents.


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Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2010, 05:32:35 PM »
wow soo long discussion about pathetic skeleton's archer hitting 5/+1, let turn to real discussion i Want Radu's hammer to be normal hammer not the +1 version ! is annoying ! I want Elite and normal Vallaki garda using normal weapon not +1 version !, Elites Garda using flaming arrows .. i want it to be rotten arrows. I want Perfidus crews stop casting dispel, i want Alhoon to stop spamming it physical damage, I want ...gah there soo many i want the game to change to my wimp !

Where can i send all my listing to ?

Congratz. Your irony turned a friendly discussion in an exchange of ironies.

Well, you could ask in the "gameplay balance", I won't suggest you keep discussing it here because what is being discussed here is the fact that players don't have acces do regular ranged weapons while skeletons seem to have.

Regarding the Garda, enemies and whatsoever, to my account, they can use even angel arms because, frankly, angel arms arte fairly commom drops.
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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2010, 07:52:24 PM »

 Anarcoplayba, 5/+1 DR is the same in any form. Any form. Using 'Ghostly Visage' to refer to 5/+1 DR is done simply because.. it is the most common method of attaining said protection.

 This doesn't seem to be your point though.. you hold grievance over the fact it is a +1 atk bonus.. and you are aware, mechanically, the only way to achieve this is through wielding a +1 weapon.
You see... sometimes, due to limitations in the engine that runs this game we all play, you find workarounds. Giving skeletons an undroppable +1 atk bonus bow accomplishes allowing them to bypass 5/+1 DR. The OOC reason.. is balance.. they are in a tougher area, and as such.. need to have abilities to make them tougher. Simple. IC.. this could be described in numerous ways. Creativity and imagination are pretty much requisite come a 'role playing game', yes? If there is no IC answer, it can be as simple as.. "Those walking bones are magical... somehow more then other walking bones!"
And as such manage to find a way of putting imbued arrows through there rotten longbows.

 I imagine no one ever thought this would raise issue. And it shouldn't proceed any further. If you want rare bows to become more commonplace, I doubt that will happen. But you have already been told, in a few posts now, why skeletons have that Atk bonus. Any further grievance should be PM'd to a developer, maybe?

 I have nothing further to say on the subject.   

Ercvadasz

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2010, 09:17:37 PM »
hm...wait till he gets to the invidians:D
not even greater stoneskin stops their arrows...i would like to meet their crafter...
and their swordsmakers too....at least against them greater stoneskin works....

yes i noticed that there are two kinds of skeleton archers too. But i think it is normal for baratak archers to have some minorly magically infused arrows or bows.
in the crypts if you meet them, it is prolly a dm spawn....
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Aduial

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2010, 02:22:51 PM »
perhaps a solution would be in moving those archers in  another area that is not low level?

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2010, 07:00:13 PM »
perhaps a solution would be in moving those archers in  another area that is not low level?

They are not that hard. And it's not a complain regarding challenge ratings or difficult level: No problem the Invidians having magic bows, the probelm is the lack of magic ranged weapons.
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HellsPanda

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2010, 03:51:41 AM »
and the solution to that is and always has bee, Suggest Items for the Devs that are suitable for the server, and they might be put into game

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2010, 08:01:19 AM »
perhaps a solution would be in moving those archers in  another area that is not low level?

They are not that hard. And it's not a complain regarding challenge ratings or difficult level: No problem the Invidians having magic bows, the probelm is the lack of magic ranged weapons.

So, the entire topic is misleading? You posted about Skeleton Archers, but it really is about wanting more and better bows. It would have been simplier to post about that directly. Anyway, your best bet is being constructive and posting suggestions for bows in the Item Request Thread. Open the toolset with the haks, mess around to see what bows you can make and post them as suggestions. Keep in mind that if they are worth over 8000, they most likely won't drop anywhere.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2010, 08:07:21 AM »
perhaps a solution would be in moving those archers in  another area that is not low level?

They are not that hard. And it's not a complain regarding challenge ratings or difficult level: No problem the Invidians having magic bows, the probelm is the lack of magic ranged weapons.

So, the entire topic is misleading? You posted about Skeleton Archers, but it really is about wanting more and better bows. It would have been simplier to post about that directly. Anyway, your best bet is being constructive and posting suggestions for bows in the Item Request Thread. Open the toolset with the haks, mess around to see what bows you can make and post them as suggestions. Keep in mind that if they are worth over 8000, they most likely won't drop anywhere.

1) I've never used the toolset before, tried sunday, but since I'm moving from my old home I didn't have quite the time to learn en make the suggestions, but yes, I'll learn, and yes, I'll do it.

2) I really dunno why I will do that, since we already have special arrows and +1 bows that simply are RARE to drop. We can find TONS od magic bolts, but for every 200 bolts I find I finde 20 arrows, so, it's not a matter of having new items only, is a matter of using the items we already have in a more balanced manner.

3) I doubt it will make any difference either, since we already have tons of good ideas (I make reference to the rapiers designed) that seems that will die only as ideas.
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