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Author Topic: Skeleton Archer.  (Read 7504 times)

Anarcoplayba

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Skeleton Archer.
« on: November 06, 2010, 03:56:08 PM »
I've seen this for quite some time, but only today I decided to speak:

The regular Skeleton Archer has (at least) +1 arrows, since it can bypass easily 5/+1 damage reduction.

It seems fairly nonsense that skeletons have +1 arrows (or bows) considering how rare +1 ranged weapons or projectiles are.

So, my point is: either make ranged +1 weapons easier to find and buy in bulk (talking about projectiles here) or take off the +1 arrows from the skeletons.

Seriously: if rotted arrows and bows do such damage I'll let my weapons rot.
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marlewebber

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2010, 03:59:27 PM »
I noticed this some time back, i think there are two types of skeletal archers.  The ones in the Morninglord crypt areas do not have +1, however the ones in the crypt areas on Mt. Baratak do have +1.  It made sense to me since the areas are tailored to different level ranges.

HellsPanda

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2010, 04:00:12 PM »
arrows are irrelevant to DR in NWN, its the bows

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2010, 04:10:10 PM »
arrows are irrelevant to DR in NWN, its the bows

Well, anyway, +1 ranged weapons are still fairly rare to let undeads have them.

I noticed this some time back, i think there are two types of skeletal archers.  The ones in the Morninglord crypt areas do not have +1, however the ones in the crypt areas on Mt. Baratak do have +1.  It made sense to me since the areas are tailored to different level ranges.

Not a problem of CR... but of the rarity of ranged +1 weapons.
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EO

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2010, 04:14:15 PM »
It's a matter of balance, nothing more. It's like how we have an infinite number of werewolves or any other monsters; it's not logical, but it's there because it's a persistant world.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 04:33:17 PM »
It's a matter of balance, nothing more. It's like how we have an infinite number of werewolves or any other monsters; it's not logical, but it's there because it's a persistant world.

We don't exactly have infinite monsters: given a certain amount of time they respawn, it's somewhat different and it mirrors the idea that there are places people simply don't go.

We have forests for werewolves, caves and crypts for vampire and undeads (even a lich creating some), the alhoon making constructs and the like, tough we have an engine limitation, it's fairly understandable that the monsters are not infinite (if they were, the alhoon would always be full spawn - \o/).

My point is: it somewhat brakes the concept of "low magic" seeing infinite +1 arrows or bows to monsters and not to players. And regarding the other +1 weapons, we have plenty of masterwork or special gear running around to justify that.
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HellsPanda

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2010, 04:47:47 PM »
I have seen several Masterwork longbow[+1AB], sure they arent the most common weapons, but they do show up

and what EO tried to bring up, its a balancing factor to make certain creatures slightly more dangerous, its not like Ghostly Visage should save you in every mid level dungeon

Aran

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 05:01:12 PM »
it might be a low magic setting                                   for players


Stradh, lord soth, any other darklord or the mist itself, the dark hunt


all this aint exactly low magic :-), neither is the dark powers or the mist .


hell there are even skeleton archers with negative damage, with strong negative plane ties both the +1 and negative damage in my eyes are quite fitting.

dont think of it as +1 bows they use  but rather as an ability tied to the negative plane, enhanced by ravelloft like arcane archers +1 arrow power


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Vespertilio

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2010, 05:46:58 PM »
Pcs have access to (in theory) an unlimited amount of bows which are +1 to undead via crafting, so it seems balanced to me that certain undead archers might have a comparable weapon.


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Norture

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 06:27:37 PM »
Solution: Apply to play a skeletal archer. Stalk Mt.Baratak with your +1 bow triumphantly.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2010, 07:05:28 PM »
Well,  maybe what bothers me  is: we have tons of +1 heavy weapons (with bonus damage), a few  light weapons  +1 and even fewer with bonus effects.

ranged weapons you have to go with the  crafted ones (with the alignment restriction) or the masterwork (not mighty), and  special arrows are RARE.
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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2010, 07:11:52 PM »
 special arrows are RARE.

I agree it would be nice to see more arrows spawning in loot like bolts do now. Arrows seem to be used far more often overall by pcs.




I could just run into the room and punch you in the balls; sure, that's scary. That's entertainment. But it isn't horror...

HellsPanda

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2010, 07:24:03 PM »
might I suggest you develop some suitable items, and bring them up in the item request thread?

dark_majico

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2010, 06:14:16 AM »
I've seen this for quite some time, but only today I decided to speak:

The regular Skeleton Archer has (at least) +1 arrows, since it can bypass easily 5/+1 damage reduction.

It seems fairly nonsense that skeletons have +1 arrows (or bows) considering how rare +1 ranged weapons or projectiles are.

So, my point is: either make ranged +1 weapons easier to find and buy in bulk (talking about projectiles here) or take off the +1 arrows from the skeletons.

Seriously: if rotted arrows and bows do such damage I'll let my weapons rot.

+1 Bows are quite basic gear, its perfectly acceptable to have some spawns using them relatively frequently. Have you tried casting Shield? +4 AC is quite a good way of escaping some arrow shots, allthough not all, but you can hardly expect low level spells to make you immune to +1 bows/arrows

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2010, 07:57:39 AM »
I've seen this for quite some time, but only today I decided to speak:

The regular Skeleton Archer has (at least) +1 arrows, since it can bypass easily 5/+1 damage reduction.

It seems fairly nonsense that skeletons have +1 arrows (or bows) considering how rare +1 ranged weapons or projectiles are.

So, my point is: either make ranged +1 weapons easier to find and buy in bulk (talking about projectiles here) or take off the +1 arrows from the skeletons.

Seriously: if rotted arrows and bows do such damage I'll let my weapons rot.

+1 Bows are quite basic gear, its perfectly acceptable to have some spawns using them relatively frequently. Have you tried casting Shield? +4 AC is quite a good way of escaping some arrow shots, allthough not all, but you can hardly expect low level spells to make you immune to +1 bows/arrows

Exactly: +1 bows are basic gear, so why don't we find it more frequently?

Seriously: I bought one recently. Price: 20.000 fangs. And I've seen it for sell more or less 2 times in three years of game.

I've neve seen one of them spawning anyplace I usually go (and I do fairly frequently mid level dungeons).

If it is basic gear, we should be able to see it more frequently and we don't.

I will (as soon as I learn) develop bows, but I confess I don't see why I'll do it knowing we already have ranged gear (arrows and bows) but they don't show in the loot spawn.
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DM Tarokka

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2010, 08:00:01 AM »
So sorry if I intrude. But what is the goal of this post?
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HellsPanda

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2010, 08:01:12 AM »
I am assuming the original poster wants skeleton archers to not be able to hit past ghostly visage, I disagree with this goal

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2010, 08:15:25 AM »
I am assuming the original poster wants skeleton archers to not be able to hit past ghostly visage, I disagree with this goal

Not exactly:

I'm poointing the fact that doesn't make sense in game skeleton archers having Masterwork bows and suggesting 2 "fixes":

1) Taking out the masterwork bow of them. (Meh)

2) Making masterwork bows and arrows more commom in the loot tables.
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DM Tarokka

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2010, 08:22:07 AM »
I think they don't have longbows +1 but just an ability related to negative energy (because it's that the type of damage they deal).
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2010, 08:27:41 AM »
I think they don't have longbows +1 but just an ability related to negative energy (because it's that the type of damage they deal).

I'm pretty sure it is +1 since it bypass Ghostly Visage, 5/+1 soak damage, and is resisted by 5/- piercing damage.

Oh, and before I forget: I've NEVER seen skeletons giving negative energy damage... where do I find it?
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DM Tarokka

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2010, 08:36:27 AM »
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.


Hamlet Act 1, scene 5, 166–167
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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2010, 08:43:13 AM »
I think they don't have longbows +1 but just an ability related to negative energy (because it's that the type of damage they deal).
I'm pretty sure it is +1 since it bypass Ghostly Visage, 5/+1 soak damage, and is resisted by 5/- piercing damage.

That sounds about right. I think some of the sewer enemies could probably do with some +1 damage reduction piercing, too.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2010, 08:47:10 AM »
I think they don't have longbows +1 but just an ability related to negative energy (because it's that the type of damage they deal).
I'm pretty sure it is +1 since it bypass Ghostly Visage, 5/+1 soak damage, and is resisted by 5/- piercing damage.

That sounds about right. I think some of the sewer enemies could probably do with some +1 damage reduction piercing, too.

This is a whole other thing: Natural weapon (claws and bites) of creatures who have damage resistance +1 are considered +1 weapons for the purpose of bypass damage resistance.

(Damn, I fell so confused and hangovered)
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Mailbox0000

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2010, 09:44:29 AM »

 It doesn't feel like much of a stretch to assume a magical animated skeleton that is capable of combat with a bow of all things, let alone function on any level at all, can also possess an ability to bypass ghostly visage without having better then the weapon it presumably died with.

 Bows are craftable. The luxuary of a Masterwork Longbow is just that. White Stag and Devil Horn bows work on most things, with a Str bonus to boot.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: Skeleton Archer.
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2010, 10:48:33 AM »

 It doesn't feel like much of a stretch to assume a magical animated skeleton that is capable of combat with a bow of all things, let alone function on any level at all, can also possess an ability to bypass ghostly visage without having better then the weapon it presumably died with.

 Bows are craftable. The luxuary of a Masterwork Longbow is just that. White Stag and Devil Horn bows work on most things, with a Str bonus to boot.

Yup. The craftable bows work just fine with all non neutral things, and assuming you will exchange and test every bow.

Yet, I'll build some bows in the item request thread.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier