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Author Topic: A little critic to some players and DM's.  (Read 4552 times)

Anarcoplayba

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A little critic to some players and DM's.
« on: October 08, 2010, 09:33:46 AM »
Ok, criticizing someone is always a touchy subject, so I'd like to expose the facts that led me to this conclusion and only then my opinion.

But first, I'd like to explain that I'm not exactly a strong player in the server. Since I don't have many hours a day to play, I have only two mid level PCS that rarely engage in any big event or roleplay a lot with others because, basically, since I can't have a consistent gaming schedule, I don't like to assume many compromises.

So, let's jump to the facts:

1) Two days ago I logged with Hedien (I decided to give her some more attention) and was chatting with Violet and Shinzo. While we were chatting, I saw an NPC getting near (an Archer). Since it seemed a little lousy to simple point to the players "look, an ordinary looking person that probably isn't ordinary at all, let's see what he is planning?" I let it go.

Suddenly, the archer turned hostile and started to fire petrification arrows. He petrified three of us, then Melgrin started to beat the crap outta him and I nailed him with arrows. However, he was made invincible by the DM.

I rested and informed I would go to the Mage tower to buy some Stone to Flesh scrolls and try to save them when the Archer came back full buffed and petrified the rest of us. We spent some time petrified until a mage came and saved us.

Then we came into the church discussed a little of the incident and I had to logoff.

2) Yesterday I was roleplaying with some people when one "player" (Bootslightknife) attacked another player (Sacha). In front of the assault, we tried to save her and attacked the attacker. I ran after Boots and rained imbued arrows on him, when I saw it was an "Impersonator" (a monster controlled by the DM), which apparently hid in plain sight and made me lost it.

Well, I tried to search it a little more (no success) and came back into the church, where I saw that Sacha was there and suddenly another Sacha appeared, making clear to everyone that something strange was happening.

The thing left the church, I asked if we would do anything, and everyone started to chat about many different subjects as if nothing had happened.

Well, those are the facts, and I'd like to state right here and now that I don't know if the attacks are part of something bigger or no, I'm just assuming that they aren't because tehre's no DM event note about it, nor gossips in the forum, so, here's my opinion.

a) It was a cold shower.

So, two times, two subsequent days, one "monster" appear, attacks everyone, presents a bigger threat than the usual PC vampire hunting victims or loup-garou raid and everyone is like "Soooo... what did you eat this morning?".

So, this is my piece of criticism to the players: a DM spawn, creates a good roleplay opportunity with possibly a good partying better than "Oh, let's loot the alhoon again! ROFL" and everyone is like "I kill the alhoon every saturday, but I can't stand to fight a creature that flees from us".

There's no way a DM will create any sense of enjoyment if the players don't adhere to it.

b) But the DM's also have it's share of guilt...

Well, why do the players don't risk? Because they don't know what is going to happen to their PC's. They prefer to fight the alhoon, or 30 Vampire Warriors instead of fighting one single archer they don't know what can do.

And why? Because that archer was invincible. We could knock him down, see him bleeding, punch the hell outta him, and nothing. He was getting beaten to a pulp but simply wouldn't die.

Or the impersonator who was getting shot by me and all of a sudden, HIPS.

The fact is that the DM's have infinite resources. If they want to beat us to a pulp, they will beat us to a pulp. But it's not fun trying to fight something we cannot defeat. It's not fun being bullyed by a monster we cannot defeat. It's not fun hitting someone that simply was made invincible by the DM. It's not fun seeing an ability like HIPS, which has only one class that has being spammed by the most improbably creatures. It's not fun fighting someone that has a weapon that is not accessible to the players: Low magic is the world, not the PC's.

And tough the DM's don't have anything to lose, we have. We have our money, weapons and even our PC's!

I've seem more than once more than one DM spawning to present us with a fight we cannot win.

And I'm not saying a tough fight, that we may die or win, neither a fight we cannot win because the challenge is too big. It's a HIPS spamming, an invincible opponent, or maybe something that is simply impossible of being hit.

Ironically, the most fun parties I ingressed were the ones I asked the DM to set a dungeon to full spawn for our party and we have to fight the vampire crypt full of vampire warriors, rogues, priests and sorceress, or the alhoon with more enemies than I could even count.

We were hit, we sweated, we had to prepare tactics, we had to advance slowly, and some of us even died. But that was a hell of fun, because the chalenge was big, and tough the reward wasn't that high, we at least did overcome it.

Well, your turn: What do you think?
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

Telkar

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 09:57:16 AM »
...weird.

I absolutely hate the toggle invincible function on hostile NPCs myself, doesn't matter if they're CR 30, just that they aren't toggled invincible. As for HiPS spamming...I guess it depends on each case. If the NPC has its hide and ms ranks so that one can hear or spot them if one has enough ranks in the detecting skills to do so, then it can be okay if a long enough while will pass from hiding and appearing. I remember an encounter with an elite vampire once, who HiPSed a lot, but to me it made sense, it being a powerful vampire, though maybe the room was a bit bereft of shadows for that.

Heretic

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 10:48:12 AM »
If you've a gripe with a DM or if you didn't like the way something was ran, best share your thoughts with the DM himself first, rather than posting it here.

If the DM was an apprentice, send me a PM.

If you want to take it further, send your concern to a CC.

Aside that, sometimes you aren't meant to win, the important is that the execution of the scene was enjoyable itself - then again, to some people, losing equals not fun.

Can't please everyone.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 11:00:22 AM »
If you've a gripe with a DM or if you didn't like the way something was ran, best share your thoughts with the DM himself first, rather than posting it here.

If the DM was an apprentice, send me a PM.

If you want to take it further, send your concern to a CC.

Aside that, sometimes you aren't meant to win, the important is that the execution of the scene was enjoyable itself - then again, to some people, losing equals not fun.

Can't please everyone.

Of course, that's why I didn't gave names. The last two days were not a big problem. I mean, I DID want to go after the archer or the impersonator, but going alone was simply suicidal, and them I tought "wait... we have more or less 10 PC's here, in a more or less equilibrated party... why is everyone 'afraid' of going out? It this group probably can handle Perfidus, but we cannot walk out of the church? Why?"

Then I remembered other nights, when the DM's TRULY did things that spoiled the fun. Seriously, I'll not give examples, since that's water under the bridge, but more than once the DM behaviour was, IMHO, questionable.

I'm not complaining about the last two days since, hey, I don't even know if that was part of something bigger and as soon as I have the time, I'll want to look around.

I'm just complaining that we players are used to see a NPC controlled by a DM as a "Dammmmnnnnnn... lemme go outta here, I'll not be able to fight whatever this thing is anyway."

And, IMHO, why we are conditioned to this? Because the challenges are either boring ("Let's go to the Alhoon?" "Nah, we went there yesterday, let's wait a little more go high spawn.") or impossible ("Ok, tell me from where came this full buffed archer, who doesn't miss one shot, full loaded with a weapon we never saw in game and who cannot be killed?").

I'd like to see more surprising, hard to overcome, still possible encounters.

And, IMHO, that's something only a DM can offer.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

Aahz

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 11:05:11 AM »
Lucyola was talking all night about that Impersonator  encounter and the Impersonator was still lurking around outside in the morning. After some weirdness the group I was with decided it was wise to get the heck out of town for a while. Not having lots of time to spend in game means that I  only catch glimpses of ongoing plots that I  usually do not have the time to pursue. So I may never get the full story of whats going on. Its just the way things happen sometimes.

As for HIPS or invincible, I've been on both sides. As a player I usually consider such tactics cheap and it really spoils the atmosphere for me. As a DM I've had my "Right hand of the master villain" barely get out his opening threat before the players turned him into a glop of goo.  

Personally I've been a fan of the "less you see the more effective".  The monster only appears for dialogue or violence.  One of the scariest moments on this server I've had  was being stalked across Port-a-Lucine by a "malevolent presence watching you".  The actual stalking only lasted about 5 minutes but we were playing off that for at least an hour.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 11:07:26 AM by Aahz »
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GunzNrosZ

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 11:14:24 AM »
Well last night at the church Raredith and Lofwyr Fetti were there.  
Quote
2) Yesterday I was roleplaying with some people when one "player" (Bootslightknife) attacked another player (Sacha). In front of the assault, we tried to save her and attacked the attacker. I ran after Boots and rained imbued arrows on him, when I saw it was an "Impersonator" (a monster controlled by the DM), which apparently hid in plain sight and made me lost it.

Well, I tried to search it a little more (no success) and came back into the church, where I saw that Sacha was there and suddenly another Sacha appeared, making clear to everyone that something strange was happening.

The thing left the church, I asked if we would do anything, and everyone started to chat about many different subjects as if nothing had happened.


Now yes the little hin did run up and start ganking Schala. But it didnt kill her. I'm not quite sure if that was because Loaf started beating on it or because Raredith started slinging Issacs at it. But it did run off. But both Loaf and Raredith ran in pursuit of the hin. When we couldnt find it we turned our attention back to the injured Schala and the two that were sparing behind the church.
Now when we got everyone back to the safety of the inside church area everyones intrests turned to getting the injured healed up.

When the imposter came in the church both Loaf and Raredith turned there attentions to the imposter at the door. Not much was rp went on about it cuz it went back out.
When morning came we all went outside discussing our plans for the day when the imposter Schala was seen and pointed out to the Garda Mihas. Now at that point Raredith and Loafs group was done with all that because there was a Garda on the scene and they both really dont want anything to do with Vallaki Garda right now. They've had too many bad run ins with them in recent months and dont want to be in there reports anymore. So we gathered our people and left.

 FYI we took the real Schala with us.
P.S. I saw nothing wrong with the entire encounter.

DM Macabre

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2010, 11:15:52 AM »
Sorry that you had such not very nice experiences here! As Heretic said, if you could PM me or him the name of the respective DM we can get back to him. We have a lot of DMs atm that are new and in the training - so it might happen that one of those perhaps spawned an encounter like the one you had. Also if it was no apprentice but a full DM it is anyways good when you contact one DM about it - so we can discuss how the situation could have been handled better and perhaps also an alternative outcome on our forum boards. Another possibility is to contact one of our various community council members about it - who then will get back to the DMs.

In general I can just give you the tip: should you be very displeased with how a certain encounter is ran, just contact the DMs on the DM channel and try to tell them (as friendly as possible please!) that you did not appreciate much how a situation was handled. Most DMs might be able to get back to you immediatly and even perhaps come to some more fitting solution.

This does not mean of course that in every situation where your character suffers some gruesome or non pleasant fate you should complain to the DM in an OOC way (this is a horror server) - it is just for situations where you have the feeling that the DM railroaded you into doom with no escape.

We try to train our DMs with some effort to make rich and good horror encounters. Of course at some time all of us can also make mistakes but in general we also strive to solve them asap.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 11:18:33 AM by DM Macabre »

Taty

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2010, 11:25:20 AM »
1. Yes we have many players who if they hear of something amazing that happened ignore it and continue talking about trivial things. I've seen people run into the Church and announce they have just seen a dragon, the headless horseman, a horde of Vampire bats and no end of other things with the players not responding at all. Alot of players don;t care about others stories or any event that does not affect them personally. It is very disappointing especially for people who play MPC's that create a great scene and it has 0 impact because the victim either doesnt even bother to tell anyone or the people they do ignore them. Not much you can do about it except use it as a litmus for who the good players are and arent.

2. Do not be so quick to judge the dms harshly (thats my job :P). We have a good number of new ones and from my experience one of the hardest thing to do as a dm is judge challenge level against a group. Also things like togging invincible are sometimes a tool to buy some time while the dm is doing something else (and they have underestimated the strength of the group) , you can never be sure about these things.

3. I have never been a fan of HIPS as it makes the user near invincible in this setting unless you are a spot or listen build. Of course the dms can make creatures you could never detect but I doubt they would do so intentionally without a purpose behind it, like a further plot developement, and again it is something difficult to judge.


4. One point I will agree with is POTM generally has a culture of not rewarding risk both in general and with dm encounters. In my years on this server I have achieved one material reward, it was a sword from the Count , while it was a lousy sword I would never use it was more than enough because of who it came from.

 It use to bother me a great deal that things were always punished harshly in game when a failure occured  but were never rewarded for a success because of course no society would function like that without constant upheaval. However over time I just accepted it and decided any event I was going to be involved in would have to be a reward in and of itself. Of course I have had numerous losses from perma death, lost gear among other things and so I generally shy away from dm events as a good many of us older players do.

 That said when you get over losing something that only exists in a data base you quickly realise that these losses don't matter much in the grand scheme of things. Yes it makes an already hard server harder but I suppose it depends on why you play here. If your goal is a high level character with uber gear and tons of gold you will be one of a handful if you actually accomplish it. If you are here for great stories then there is ample opportunity for that kind of success. Frankly the latter is at this point the only reason to play here but I think it is enough for most of us.

~Taty~
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 11:29:45 AM by Taty »

Strigoi

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2010, 11:55:49 AM »
i agree that i learned at a early stage that the Risk/reward for success is like how Taty described it. when i first started here i experienced a couple "railroaded" events, it left a sour taste in my mouth and for a while i left the server to take a break. when i came back i decided to do things my way, and perpetuate my own stories with my characters. and that turned out to be allot more fun, so from one bad experience i learned a valuable lesson and was able to enjoy myself here further.

regardless though of what i think, the DM's do a hard job, and allot of it we dont see. also as a MPC player, ive been stereotyped in the same manner as well. people have a tendency to point the finger at the entire group when things dont go their way with a certain "individual" of that group. i dont think its fair really, not for DM's, MPC's, or anyone for that matter.

if DM Events bother you that much, then i say make your own fun. to me there is no such thing as bordem, only laziness. when i get to a point where im bored, i dont give up or throw my hands in the air and try to find a Catalyst for "the reason why im bored". i take initiative to do something fun for me and those around me to get out of the slump.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 12:05:18 PM by Stravokov »

HellsPanda

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2010, 12:00:03 PM »
there are many reasons why a char will ignore a person coming in screaming of another vampire, and quite frankly ignoring is very fitting to the setting of Barovia, its their own fault for risking the night. And some thing that is important to one char, is unimportant to another. Its not always a sign of a bad/good player.

Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2010, 12:41:23 PM »
i agree that i learned at a early stage that the Risk/reward for success is like how Taty described it. when i first started here i experienced a couple "railroaded" events, it left a sour taste in my mouth and for a while i left the server to take a break. when i came back i decided to do things my way, and perpetuate my own stories with my characters. and that turned out to be allot more fun, so from one bad experience i learned a valuable lesson and was able to enjoy myself here further.

regardless though of what i think, the DM's do a hard job, and allot of it we dont see. also as a MPC player, ive been stereotyped in the same manner as well. people have a tendency to point the finger at the entire group when things dont go their way with a certain "individual" of that group. i dont think its fair really, not for DM's, MPC's, or anyone for that matter.

if DM Events bother you that much, then i say make your own fun. to me there is no such thing as bordem, only laziness. when i get to a point where im bored, i dont give up or throw my hands in the air and try to find a Catalyst for "the reason why im bored". i take initiative to do something fun for me and those around me to get out of the slump.



Just clarifying (since I'm afraid Macabre, Heretic or you my have gotten me wrong) I started this thread as constructive criticism towards Players (me included) and DM's.

I think that players should roleplay a little more these kind of encounters: Some evil or neutral players should, of course, ignore what doesn't concern to them or maybe get worried: they can be the next victim.

Other may decide to fight the evil (my PC included); others may have an entire different approach: couldn't we bring a complain to the garda against boot? Shouldn't Schala be worried about the risk of that creature attacking anyone? Maybe even attacking the Garda! She could be hanged for something she didn't do.

As for the DM's, I respect all the time and effort they provide us, and (except for some small incidents that doesn't matter now) they have always been total and complete helpful, allowing a great deal of fun and immersion.

My constructive critics toward how the encounters were handled in the las two days is: it could have been better. We could have played more.

When the archer arrived the second time, for instance, I was preparing to go to the mage tower buy some scrolls of flesh to stone to try to help the others. The archer could have waited to stalk to the mage tower. Could have pursued me. We could have a bigger (and IMHO) better scene than just petrifying everyone with an invincible NPC.

Please don't get me wrong: I LOVE seeing you DM's surprising us. I loved seeing the crypts below the church with that strange mists, and every other small surprise you give us.

What did we have left from those encounters?

Nothing.

We don't know from where the NPC's (Archer and Impersonator) came, what they want, to where they gone. And it happened before: a long time ago (one year, maybe) me and Vanolly had an encounter with a werewolf in the werewolf cave. This werewolf was part human and asked for help.

We helped, he foun a longsword "with an evil aura" and he left.

I tried to discover more about him, but what was left from the encounter? Nothing.

I'd like to see the end of those encounters. The conclusion.

Not every encounter have to be an epic event, with vorpal swords raining from the sky. But I'd love to see at least some result, some reward, be it in the form of an item, gold, XP or a good story to tell around the campfire.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

dutchy

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2010, 01:02:05 PM »
well that event with the doppelganger IS an event, you just seem to lack eyes and ears not everything gets posted right away it might take a encounter or 3 be for it gets acknowledged.

the archer same story now its the archer but what will be next?   so you cant harm him huh hmmmmmmmm maybe find out what his actual weakness is?  i think macabre used to run a quest with some guy who drowned and was some zombie warrior that couldn't be killed and was friggin strong but once you found his hearth it was solved.

see these things as big puzzles.

as for the players gotta side with panda  some seen so much already that when a person they don't know comes running in yelling vampire vampire is like hmpf another one well the idiot shouldn't went outside then, that's how they would think eventually.

the risk vs reward it is hmmm off balance but it always been that way best to adapt to that and take it as that's how it is. so expect to loose but jump for joy when you win.

the whole post shows you are indeed far from knowing how things work on potm and i can understand how much that seems strange or frustrating to you, my advice RP like you want to and a big mid finger to the rest who don't react to your rp attempt aslong you enjoy it without a win mentality ofcourse.

Also talk to the dm when you think it is unfair or when you have any bad feelings about whats going on, worked for me, dms rather have you talk to them then to go behind their backs and post something like this.
demoralises them,if you would be in their shoes would you rather have a person tell you hey what the H are you doing? then all these posts with players who also pick up their pitchforks and torches and join the mob?
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DM Tarokka

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2010, 01:07:25 PM »
As an apprentice DM this post made me sad.
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2010, 01:46:15 PM »
well that event with the doppelganger IS an event, you just seem to lack eyes and ears not everything gets posted right away it might take a encounter or 3 be for it gets acknowledged.

the archer same story now its the archer but what will be next?   so you cant harm him huh hmmmmmmmm maybe find out what his actual weakness is?  i think macabre used to run a quest with some guy who drowned and was some zombie warrior that couldn't be killed and was friggin strong but once you found his hearth it was solved.

see these things as big puzzles.

as for the players gotta side with panda  some seen so much already that when a person they don't know comes running in yelling vampire vampire is like hmpf another one well the idiot shouldn't went outside then, that's how they would think eventually.

the risk vs reward it is hmmm off balance but it always been that way best to adapt to that and take it as that's how it is. so expect to loose but jump for joy when you win.

the whole post shows you are indeed far from knowing how things work on potm and i can understand how much that seems strange or frustrating to you, my advice RP like you want to and a big mid finger to the rest who don't react to your rp attempt aslong you enjoy it without a win mentality ofcourse.

Also talk to the dm when you think it is unfair or when you have any bad feelings about whats going on, worked for me, dms rather have you talk to them then to go behind their backs and post something like this.
demoralises them,if you would be in their shoes would you rather have a person tell you hey what the H are you doing? then all these posts with players who also pick up their pitchforks and torches and join the mob?

So, ok, let's admit it is an event (I truly hope so), then, put at least some hint about it put ONE gossip in the boards and then I'll know if I should waste my time looking for clues (as I already did before) or no. It may be a big puzzle. But a puzzle with one piece is not a puzzle at all.

And again: I'm making ONE critic toward ONE kind of situation I've met before: a challenge who can't be overcome either by being impossible to be dealt, either by not leaving any clue at all.

But this is only part of the criticism: I'm also pointing my finger towards us, players, who simply seem to not care about the existence of a being capable to copy ppl, or one archer who has a weapon nobody know how it was done or from where it come.

And why, IMHO, people don't care? Because the risk x reward is unbalanced, as everyone agreed.

So, my critics tend to be: We don't have a risk vs reward balance, so people wont take risks.

If you think that's ok, ok. If you think that's acceptable, accept. If you think it's unacceptable, leave.

I can live farming the same old dungeons. I really think it's fun. Seriously.

But I'd love to see things more balanced in the "Risk x Reward" area.

As an apprentice DM this post made me sad.

And Tarokka, it is not directed to you. If you disagree with what I'm exposing, ok, many people disagree and think "it was always like this".

If you agree, you are the DM. You may chose what kind of plot or event you will run.

I already said up there: I had a lot of fun in the most simple way with a DM simply spawning a dungeon. This is no problem at all.

I'm just pointing that you have all the power: putting a challenge that we cannot overcome won't be much fun.
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Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
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dutchy

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2010, 03:30:16 PM »
you do not realise the effect of this post or these type of posts, half the dm team is inactive or refuses to login cause of these sort of things.

the quest isnt even 24 hours old  ppl are spreading this  ic not everything has to be posted as rumors.

as for these posts they seriously take the kick out of dming if i would have been a dm i would seriously have to bite my tongue on what i would think about this but im a player who can see both sides so i dont have to.
dms wont logon cause they get to much crap like this they try somthing and they try somthing new and someone doesnt get it flames it and others jump the wagon and also flame the dms, yes they arnt perfect hell some are noobs and idiots and some are just bad people, but like all people they get shit storms like this  all week long.
they rp and dm  to amuse us this is how we call it in dutch    stank voor dank    it means you  do somthing good or atempt somthing good and get slapped in the face for dooing so.

thats the effect you are causing with this topic you make them feel like they do a crappy job and therefor loose the will to dm   
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2010, 03:34:51 PM »
you do not realise the effect of this post or these type of posts, half the dm team is inactive or refuses to login cause of these sort of things.

the quest isnt even 24 hours old  ppl are spreading this  ic not everything has to be posted as rumors.

as for these posts they seriously take the kick out of dming if i would have been a dm i would seriously have to bite my tongue on what i would think about this but im a player who can see both sides so i dont have to.
dms wont logon cause they get to much crap like this they try somthing and they try somthing new and someone doesnt get it flames it and others jump the wagon and also flame the dms, yes they arnt perfect hell some are noobs and idiots and some are just bad people, but like all people they get shit storms like this  all week long.
they rp and dm  to amuse us this is how we call it in dutch    stank voor dank    it means you  do somthing good or atempt somthing good and get slapped in the face for dooing so.

thats the effect you are causing with this topic you make them feel like they do a crappy job and therefor loose the will to dm   

So, seriously, since people flame (and if I'm flaming, please tell me where and I'll try to clarify myself) we shall not post our criticism and opinions?

that's it?
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2010, 03:42:54 PM »
 Having been mentioned (and apparently criticized) in the original post for 'ignoring' said events... allow me to explain why it might seem that way to you.

 The first attack (I am aware of) happened from the Boots impersonator against Schala. After chasing the creature to the treeline, where it disappeared with no explanation (I assume it ran into the treeline, though ANY flavour text would have been really helpful there, since I was literally right behind it and it just... ~poofs~), I hurried back to the one victim, Schala. She was rping shock, and I decided to take it upon myself to build upon that. The minor event spawned this and I, for one, had great fun. When the second Schala entered the temple, I approached and it ran away. Seeing I already had one Schala in bad shape, I decided it was best not to leave her alone, as Loaf felt these happenings might be because of her anyway and the second Schala was a distraction. I spent the next while tending to the shock victim. I also felt, this might give the others present a chance to better involve themselves in the actual happenings. Later, outside the temple during the day, Mihas arrived on scene and Loaf took it as her que to leave after first being forced to answer his questions.

  Now... from my account I feel like -nothing- was wrong with this event. Well, maybe apart from the DM giving no flavour text or responding to player choices. Such as when the Boots murderer appeared again, and I [grappled] at it as it simply stood next to me. Whereupon it ran off as if I had typed [waves] instead.  :roll:

  When events come about, I try to not let them carry me away. I rp as I would normally under the unique circumstances. In effect, I make my own fun. And events can help by offering a multitude of scenarios that otherwise cannot exist. What I'm trying to say is.. don't go into anything expecting things go in any manner you might expect.

 

Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2010, 04:04:11 PM »
Having been mentioned (and apparently criticized) in the original post for 'ignoring' said events... allow me to explain why it might seem that way to you.

 The first attack (I am aware of) happened from the Boots impersonator against Schala. After chasing the creature to the treeline, where it disappeared with no explanation (I assume it ran into the treeline, though ANY flavour text would have been really helpful there, since I was literally right behind it and it just... ~poofs~), I hurried back to the one victim, Schala. She was rping shock, and I decided to take it upon myself to build upon that. The minor event spawned this and I, for one, had great fun. When the second Schala entered the temple, I approached and it ran away. Seeing I already had one Schala in bad shape, I decided it was best not to leave her alone, as Loaf felt these happenings might be because of her anyway and the second Schala was a distraction. I spent the next while tending to the shock victim. I also felt, this might give the others present a chance to better involve themselves in the actual happenings. Later, outside the temple during the day, Mihas arrived on scene and Loaf took it as her que to leave after first being forced to answer his questions.

  Now... from my account I feel like -nothing- was wrong with this event. Well, maybe apart from the DM giving no flavour text or responding to player choices. Such as when the Boots murderer appeared again, and I [grappled] at it as it simply stood next to me. Whereupon it ran off as if I had typed [waves] instead.  :roll:

  When events come about, I try to not let them carry me away. I rp as I would normally under the unique circumstances. In effect, I make my own fun. And events can help by offering a multitude of scenarios that otherwise cannot exist. What I'm trying to say is.. don't go into anything expecting things go in any manner you might expect.

 

That's why I say this is intended to be constructive criticism.

I ran after the impersonator until the tree line too. I shoved two imbued arrows in it before it disappeared. Then I cast invisi on me and went around that tree corner trying to find the thing.

I tought I had a chance (two imbued arrows usually put a good deal of damage) and tried to find it. I didn't find anything.
As you said, poof, the thing disappeared. I'd really love to have some more clues about it.

It wasn't a big deal. I wasn't killed, didn't lose money, equipment nor anything.

In fact, it was fun. And I wanted more. More that didn't come because most of the players who could go after the thing simply let it go. I asked if the things would end like that and since nobody answered me, I decided to logoff because, well... Everyone is tired of repeating: POTM is not a server for solo.

It was a nice initiative, I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm just pointing out it could have led to a better "end" if the players and the DM involved (I don't even know wha was him had decided to play together.

If you can take a constructive criticism that I don't know how could be more explicit, thanks, the post worked out as intended.

If not, please feel free to erase this topic. Seriously.
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
Hedien Gine: Arrow and Bow Artist.
Dolin Schneim: Dwarven Soldier

Inviktus

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2010, 04:22:07 PM »
The first attack (I am aware of) happened from the Boots impersonator against Schala. After chasing the creature to the treeline, where it disappeared with no explanation (I assume it ran into the treeline, though ANY flavour text would have been really helpful there, since I was literally right behind it and it just... ~poofs~)

Yeah, that could have been better with some flavor text.  I was busy spawning the pile of ooze boots turned into in the bushes.  The pile of ooze watched you for some time, but from it's perspective you stood far away, then just walked off without searching. ;)

 Now... from my account I feel like -nothing- was wrong with this event. Well, maybe apart from the DM giving no flavour text or responding to player choices. Such as when the Boots murderer appeared again, and I [grappled] at it as it simply stood next to me. Whereupon it ran off as if I had typed [waves] instead.  :roll:

Sorry about that I must have missed that text.

My advice is that several of us, especially myself, are indeed apprentice DMs.  If something doesn't seem to make sense, please ask about it on the DM chan.  Maybe we missed something like a [grapple] emote or need to be prompted to add some flavor text to clarify what's happening.


Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2010, 04:25:44 PM »
The first attack (I am aware of) happened from the Boots impersonator against Schala. After chasing the creature to the treeline, where it disappeared with no explanation (I assume it ran into the treeline, though ANY flavour text would have been really helpful there, since I was literally right behind it and it just... ~poofs~)

Yeah, that could have been better with some flavor text.  I was busy spawning the pile of ooze boots turned into in the bushes.  The pile of ooze watched you for some time, but from it's perspective you stood far away, then just walked off without searching. ;)


Hey, only regarding this, then I'm more or less happy: I casted invisibility on me and wandered through those trees. I saw Mailbox reaching the blob when it disappeared and moving away, I entered, however (tough I entered invisible).
Noignar Huillen: Ilmater Cleric.
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Anarcoplayba

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2010, 04:32:33 PM »
Oh, and since I'm trying to be constructive here, I'd love emotes regarding trails, sounds, etc, etc.

We don't need a clear sign of a NPC showing right in our front, one indication of "Hey, I'm, the DM, still around here, look a little further."
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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2010, 05:10:52 PM »
has no use explaining you dont see it.

things like this topic can be concidert action and action has reaction.

the reaction beeing dms wont like playing with ppl who keep complaining and it takes away their drive to host questes and make it MORE fun for us.

the dms have alot of negatieve feedback or constructive critisism, but most of those go trough pms, posts like this DONT help.

if i have a problem with a dm i go head on to them and ask what their deal is or why they do somthing, if they refuse to awnser or when it becomes a point where the dm and myself can not get out off we leave it at the hands of the CC or more dms, and trust me i been in that boat as DW or heretic for that matter.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 08:55:01 PM by dutchy »
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Antonus Taran

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2010, 05:27:56 AM »
“To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, and be nothing.”
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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2010, 05:49:44 AM »
Quote
Maybe we missed something like a [grapple] emote.

Best way I found was to emote something like that ICly then do the same on the DM channel or to the DM in question. Makes it easier for them to keep up with what different PC's dotted around the area are up to without them having to be over their shoulder like a hawk, it can be hard trying to keep track of so many people in one area.

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Re: A little critic to some players and DM's.
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2010, 12:13:24 PM »
you do not realise the effect of this post or these type of posts, half the dm team is inactive or refuses to login cause of these sort of things.

the quest isnt even 24 hours old  ppl are spreading this  ic not everything has to be posted as rumors.

as for these posts they seriously take the kick out of dming if i would have been a dm i would seriously have to bite my tongue on what i would think about this but im a player who can see both sides so i dont have to.
dms wont logon cause they get to much crap like this they try somthing and they try somthing new and someone doesnt get it flames it and others jump the wagon and also flame the dms, yes they arnt perfect hell some are noobs and idiots and some are just bad people, but like all people they get shit storms like this  all week long.
they rp and dm  to amuse us this is how we call it in dutch    stank voor dank    it means you  do somthing good or atempt somthing good and get slapped in the face for dooing so.

thats the effect you are causing with this topic you make them feel like they do a crappy job and therefor loose the will to dm   

So, seriously, since people flame (and if I'm flaming, please tell me where and I'll try to clarify myself) we shall not post our criticism and opinions?

that's it?

Sometimes you can't have a constructive conversation when there's not enough trust, or familiarity between those who would be involved in said discussion. Sometimes there's better routes to finding your answers then to open it up to a forum discussion. It would seem to me, merely from seeing the responses in this thread, that you took the wrong avenue to getting what you want, even if what you want is something you view as a positive contribution. Rather than get defensive over this, consider what way might have been better, or may still yet be better, and perhaps persue that instead.