Incoming System: Risk of raised rising as undead

[stephaniedarkrose]

Someone requested a Piccy of the first time it activates. I don't know if it was the first time but it did activate and here's the screen.

[Budly]

I do have a question about undead, can one raise them in a religious sanctuary? I mean, vampires cannot enter. But can undead be raised there in a place of positive power?

[Rex]

I do have a question about undead, can one raise them in a religious sanctuary? I mean, vampires cannot enter. But can undead be raised there in a place of positive power?

Can't Enter?  When did that happen, heh.  My Main question is, if this can be pulled off, does that mean we can implement the actual Shadow Dancer dying in Ravenloft repercussion?

~Rex

[Vespertilio]

does that mean we can implement the actual Shadow Dancer dying in Ravenloft repercussion?

I was wondering the same, and that's not a percentage, it's an assurance you must defeat the shadow to even attempt to raise the shadow dancer pc.  It would make for some fascinating and setting unique rp at the very least.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

I do have a question about undead, can one raise them in a religious sanctuary? I mean, vampires cannot enter. But can undead be raised there in a place of positive power?

Yeah, they don't rise as vampires, after all. But we've made it so that religious sanctuaries have reduced risk of the rising as undead occur.

[EO]

does that mean we can implement the actual Shadow Dancer dying in Ravenloft repercussion?

I was wondering the same, and that's not a percentage, it's an assurance you must defeat the shadow to even attempt to raise the shadow dancer pc.  It would make for some fascinating and setting unique rp at the very least.

Yeah, I brought it up today thanks to Rex' feedback. We're considering implementing that.

[dutchy]

would it not be easyer and more fruitfull rp wise to give the player who turns into a zombie controll of the so called zombie?  rp could grow from it instead of instand attack once raised.

control can also come in the form of henchmen so the zombie becomes the ghosts henchmen and trough that  the player can groan moan halt an attack or simply slaugther his party members and target them aswell.

just thoughts is all

[marlewebber]

This is awesome, though I think the Undead-Zombie should have the feats of the slain person

[Kendric98]

would it not be easyer and more fruitfull rp wise to give the player who turns into a zombie controll of the so called zombie?  rp could grow from it instead of instand attack once raised.

control can also come in the form of henchmen so the zombie becomes the ghosts henchmen and trough that  the player can groan moan halt an attack or simply slaugther his party members and target them aswell.

just thoughts is all

All zombies attack the momment they see a living person anyways. If you have control undead it might be possible to control the zombie though donno. Cool idea though about the henchman thing but i can already see the semi int zombies running around not acting like zombies if it was implemented.

[marlewebber]

So, I have a suggestion on how to alter this slightly, first off let me say its great and has lead to some interesting 'exorcist' like scenes trying to raise a body.

That said, the % affecting a dark powered caster is pretty steep, and it only affects dark powered clerics... I would like to suggest that dark powers affect the Recipient of the Spell, and not the caster, so that any Dark Powered Character should really try to avoid dying, because they're hard to bring back.

In Character, the way it looks when you just simply can't raise somebody (like 10+ tries) is, "Zomg, they're beyond our reach, they're cursed, lets give up."  So ICly people are blaming the Recipient of the spell.

In Ravenloft Canon, there's nothing that really penalizes clerics in this way, so I think it'd be more fair to penalize ALL DP'd characters, instead of just the ones whose roleplay is centered around raising others.

[HellsPanda]

in PnP clerics should cast DP checks upon an attempted raise no matter the outcome, but yes DP on the recipient should have an effect,  but also DP's of whoever is using a scroll and casting a spell

[marlewebber]

Let's make certain we're talking about the same thing:  In Pen and Paper, a Cleric incurs dark powers CHECKs when conducting necromancy.

There's nothing in Canon about it failing based on the casters stage of Dark Power, that's a home brew thing for here.

I'm suggesting that Dark Powers failure %s modify the Recipient of the Spell, not the caster, since otherwise it's better to be dark powered as any class except cleric, when in this setting dark powered clerics don't "have it harder," because they're not supposed to.

I know I'm one of the only people severely affected by this, but in Pen and Paper terms, there's nothing that makes a Dark Powered PC more or less skilled at raising people from the dead.  I really think that when the recipient is dark powered, they should be harder to raise, because of the Dark Powers hold on them.

Makes it really scary to die as a Dark Powered PC that way.

[herkles]

I think the biggest flaw with your suggestion Marle, is that it A) makes dark powers automated and people will fish for them, ie just casting over and over to get the bonuses that come with it. B) it means that they are not personal. I would personally dislike having Rozsa's dp the exact same as someone else's her curse is very personal and it affects her uniquely, just as much as I believe Marle's DPs do.  So I am not in favor of this idea.

[Misan]

I believe what Marle's saying is this:

Dead character with Dark Power, more difficult to raise.

Character with dark power attempting to conduct raise, no change from normal difficulty.

Penalize the dead guy that has a DP, not the caster with the DP for raising them.

If I'm mistaken, I'm sure clarification will follow.

[marlewebber]

I believe what Marle's saying is this:

Dead character with Dark Power, more difficult to raise.

Character with dark power attempting to conduct raise, no change from normal difficulty.

Penalize the dead guy that has a DP, not the caster with the DP for raising them.

If I'm mistaken, I'm sure clarification will follow.

OMG, will you be my lawyer pls, kk ty (that's precisely what I'm saying, thank you)

[marlewebber]

Experienced another case of almost ten tries and failure on this spell.

For a 7th level spell it is really stripped of its potency.

I suppose if no one agrees that the wrong PCs are being penalized, perhaps someone can look into "flagging" the Small Ezrite Shrine in the Village of Barovia as a "Hallowed area."

I will re-iterate calmly that in Pen and Paper a PCs Dark Powers don't affect clerical magic - in fact it makes them *more* believable.  I can cite sources on request.

As it is, it's pretty much no affect on Dark Powered Non-clerics, this is something that only affects dark powered clerics, and that's why I am the only person providing real feedback on this.

It is a lot to ask of people to RolePlay the failure every time.  After the first 5 failures it is old, tiresome, and OOCly frustrating. (such as when people want to log out)

Conclusion : This system DOES increase roleplay and increase fear of death.  But it goes too far, I've really given this some thought, the people who need to be afraid of this are the recipients of dark powers.

P.S. I'm doing my very best not to feel singled out, here.

[DM Macabre]

I will re-iterate calmly that in Pen and Paper a PCs Dark Powers don't affect clerical magic - in fact it makes them *more* believable.  I can cite sources on request.

Well, that is not quite correct. In PnP every magic also clerical magic is darkly twisted.

Concerning your case:

One that is so heavily dark powered as Marle should except his spells to be really dark twisted. In this sense I find the system working perfectly fine.

On the other hand I agree that at least the ressurection spell should have a very much lowered chance to raise people as zombies.

[Axel]

P.S. I'm doing my very best not to feel singled out, here.

Please don't. We are in fact singling you out. One of the design criteria for this system was to maximize your discomfort.

[marlewebber]

I still think it would be much more appropriate if the person who is Dark Powered was nigh-impossible to raise.

DM Mac - I'll pull up some source info on Clerics and the "Unspoken Pact" - I'm not referring to "Altered Magic"

Ressurection having a lowered % would be very nice, having more "holy areas" in game would also be cool, and perhaps Torch/Holy Symbol items could increase the favorability of the % as well.

Please don't. We are in fact singling you out. One of the design criteria for this system was to maximize your discomfort.

LMAO!

I don't think there are any other dark powered clerics so my feedback is the only feedback you have on this!

[LawfulJoe]

As the dead, and still dead recipient of 10 failed attempts to bring Calius back by Marle, I know I personally did not like waiting for 2 + hours in hopes of not taking the XP hit from a respawn and getting a ressurection only to still be dead and unplayable. Ghost RP is just not that stimulating

For me, Respawn = Perma death of the PC.  I just stop playing them rather than Respawning and losing a level, takes too long to get it back.

[Aahz]

P.S. I'm doing my very best not to feel singled out, here.

Please don't. We are in fact singling you out. One of the design criteria for this system was to maximize your discomfort.

If you keep altering the game mechanics, sooner or later, you will break a long existing character. Its not personal, its not intended, however it is inevitable.

[hugolino]

Ressurection having a lowered % would be very nice, having more "holy areas" in game would also be cool...

I have no character with dark powers and tend to be scared of DP characters IC and OOC. That said, the above suggestions sound reasonable. But the holy areas should be logical and obvious of course.

[mayvind]

I have a Cleric with darkpower.  I enjoy ressurecting people turning up zombie then i use control undead to parade it around.

[Taty]

I have a Cleric with darkpower.  I enjoy ressurecting people turning up zombie then i use control undead to parade it around.

I have one too, but seem to have lost access to my CindiAngelheart account

[dutchy]

i dont have any run ins with this system but all i have is what i have read here on this topic and my view is this.

the system needs balancing it does not seem to be fair atm.
respawning is out of the question you can loose 2 months of play time for one single respawn that is ridiculous, that is why ppl count on a raise or resurection when you mess that up to much it becomes undooable to play anymore, there will be no more hunting no more pvp it will become habbo hotel nwn style, and that people is NOT what we need or want.

so yes look at this system tweak it cause it doesnt fit the server atm.