Stone to Flesh

[Avatar6666]

Can we please get some DM to respond to this topic? Thank you in advance.

[Dashru]

Simple solution: Change Freedom of Movement to give immunity to petrification.

[Telkar]

Well, how about 15 real life hours duration perhaps? It's probably enough for people to care about questing to remove the effect, and surely the one who cast flesh to stone would be forced to rest within that time frame, or be subject to exhaustion. Even undead would likely want to renew their powers within that span of time.

Turn per level or something so short hardly allows for any RP, and makes the spell seem like a very extended sort of hold person or something. The spell is supposed to be permanent, but if it's like that in nwn that if you rest it disappears, then I think it should have duration just to prevent permanency when it's not supposed to be like that in the system.

To stop playing a character for 15 hours because of the spell seems like a fair game to me. The spell occurs rarely enough, and it should be pain to be caught in it.

[Avatar6666]

My issue wiht the spell is that if the caster crashes and no one around, you done. You have to wait till someone comes along to do something. It was not ment to be like this in the first place. If you could fix it so does not make it permant when the caster crashes i am all for it. problem is i think that is hard coded in NWN.

    I dont mind what ever duration you wish as long as eventally it goes away. Sitting doing nothing is somewhat boring.

[puckwolf]

I don't believe there is any ruling in regards to smashing a stoned person (heehee *cough*)

But it is kind of lame to kill a statue then resurrect it like normal, that's what I believe the DM in the situation where I was turned to stone was saying.  The less lame approach is to find a stone to flesh scroll or a mage who can cast it, or wait for the player to rest.

Having said that, if someone kills you while you were turned to stone by another player you're *not* closured (unless you want to be).  Players cannot force closure on to other players.  The only person who can make a closure call is the player of the character and, in certain (albeit very rare) situations, a DM.

[jugnaut]

What happened to the low magic setting where almost no pc has this kind of power? >_< 

[Aahz]

What happened to the low magic setting where almost no pc has this kind of power? >_< 

It has been said time and time again that "low magic" means low magical items and magic use by the native peoples and not what casters are allowed to do as part of their class. A High magic setting would have orbs of magical light to light rooms and streets, teleportation gates to other cities, magic carpets for flying around the city. etc.

[Emomina]

What happened to the low magic setting where almost no pc has this kind of power? >_< 

Low magic has to do with prevalence of magic in use of everyday life. In a high magic setting, magic is not feared, it is embraced and implemented by everyone. A maid might use a cantrip to animate the mop and broom, or a thieving gnome scoundrel might snatch a juicy apple from the peddlers table and leave an illusion in its place to allay suspicion.

Ravenloft is a low magic setting, our server is a low magic setting. Our characters are Player Characters, and can be anywhere from wildly magical to completely suspicious of it.
Its up to individual, and neither way of playing neither harms or reinforces the low magic setting of Ravenloft.




Flesh to Stone is awesome, embrace it. If there is a statue of a child of the Morninglord, then the clergy have a reason for a quest on his behalf.
Cause begets effect. The more we embrace the causes instead of lobbying to circumnavigate them, the more the effect can affect our shared narratives.

[marlewebber]

I can think of dozens of phrases to describe the features of a character as they stare head on, defiant - maybe more fearful, maybe less- depending on their comprehension of what was coming for them...as they are rapidly transformed into stone.  I mean just describing all the things that are carried, the weapon in hand, could really constitute a fair amount of roleplay with others.

Stone to Flesh is not too powerful for a 6th level Arcane spell.  Compare it to Disintegrate, of the same level.  It's an 'ender.' 

I believe the duration should be permanent in every case, it would be marvelous if the server could support "Persistent Statues" for PCs that get petrified (so they don't have to log in for the stone figure to be there).  It's very macabre.  You could even set your Player Description to describe a statue!!

[marlewebber]

Flesh to Stone is awesome, embrace it.

Oh, and what Emomina said!

[Telkar]

We know flesh to stone has a lot of RP potential, but those words are in no way the reasoning the original point of this topic needs. It's like saying to someone who thinks they should lower the price of fish: "But fish is good!"

It would be ideal in my opinion to have the spell work in the way marle suggests, to have the spell entirely permanent even if the caster rests.

On the other hand, if that's not possible, do we let the flaw in the system work for us, and say it's fair game for people to relog to make the spell permanent, and viewing the caster resting to end the spell as the bug instead? Or do we work with how the system was meant to be, circumventing the flaw by putting a reasonable timer on the spell, one that we determine by how long we think a casting character could go without rest?

One of those two options will always have an "incorrigible bug" ...that's the one where we let the flaw work for us, getting us closer to the permanence of the spell, but not quite. The other one doesn't have a bug since we put in a replacement, but doing so, makes the spell totally something that's not the ideal, not for me anyway, but some people might like it impermanent.

Now to my personal opinion of what should be chosen. I don't think it worth the effort to change the spell's function, I rather think people's point of view on it should be changed, to treat the impermanence that comes with rest as the exception rather than what should always be. I can say I'd also hardly care if it were changed to have some RL hours in duration.

Sorry, I just found some strong need to approach the issue with extreme logic. >_< ...which in retrospect was pretty pointless to do.

[Avatar6666]

We know flesh to stone has a lot of RP potential, but those words are in no way the reasoning the original point of this topic needs. It's like saying to someone who thinks they should lower the price of fish: "But fish is good!"

It would be ideal in my opinion to have the spell work in the way marle suggests, to have the spell entirely permanent even if the caster rests.

On the other hand, if that's not possible, do we let the flaw in the system work for us, and say it's fair game for people to relog to make the spell permanent, and viewing the caster resting to end the spell as the bug instead? Or do we work with how the system was meant to be, circumventing the flaw by putting a reasonable timer on the spell, one that we determine by how long we think a casting character could go without rest?

One of those two options will always have an "incorrigible bug" ...that's the one where we let the flaw work for us, getting us closer to the permanence of the spell, but not quite. The other one doesn't have a bug since we put in a replacement, but doing so, makes the spell totally something that's not the ideal, not for me anyway, but some people might like it impermanent.

Now to my personal opinion of what should be chosen. I don't think it worth the effort to change the spell's function, I rather think people's point of view on it should be changed, to treat the impermanence that comes with rest as the exception rather than what should always be. I can say I'd also hardly care if it were changed to have some RL hours in duration.

Sorry, I just found some strong need to approach the issue with extreme logic. >_< ...which in retrospect was pretty pointless to do.

Thats my point exactly, I dont have a issue with the way the spell works. Its just that thier is a bug that causes the spell to not function correctly in NWN when the caster crashes or simply logs out . Putting a RL hour limit on it is fine with me but i am still waiting for a dm to say something on this thread.

[mayvind]

I think it is the other way around it is bug that while resting the spell expire.. that should be looking into and fix it.

[Aduial]

We are speaking of a matter of balance.... but are you reading the posts or you only  go straight  with your ideas?
We are a community and  i am trying to give a contribute to a costructive discussion coming here and tell that people are  creating drama and such it is really childish.

However please don t try to solve it like we are in a low magic setting... because as far as i know scrolls are considered items too but for a certain reason they are the only high items around... without considering how many spellbook a mage should need... and the costs of writing the spell on it...so i dont think this argument can close the topic.

[DM Tarokka]

I personally believe the matter of duration is a bit faulty.

If you die, in whatever situation, you enter the world as ghost and wait for or look for a rescuer. If you're stoned you do the same, with the difference you just wait standing in a spot.

If you are stoned the risk of being turned in crumbles means a high chance of closure, but this happens also in any other PVP situation with any other accident which may happen, so I don't see it any different from another death. As Mayvind has pointed out, though, it's the real and only spell vampire spawns can be worried about, and even then there are some ways to escape from a "final solution".

As far as low magic. I think sometimes one should repeat this everytime 10 or more new players come to join POTM. Ravenloft is NOT a low magic setting, it's in fact a very high magic one. Low magic items setting should be a better definition, but it's not that either. The overall point is the -attitude- towards magic of -Barovian- populace: they're afraid of it, they tend not to use it, they escape it when they can. This doesn't mean magic doesn't exist: most Darklords, Strahd included, are high level spellcasters. The real difference, and on that I believe something could be done, is that you should not find at merchants shops (yeah also in the PCs' ones) high magic items. There are many corners in the Barovian side of the server where magic is tolerated, used, sold. Then if we speak also of Dementlieu and Hazlan, we enter in a totally different topic, with attitudes to magics which are different.

[Avatar6666]

Really not getting the point i was trying to make, but thats why i dont post often. I withdrawl all my post.

[Badelaire]

Certainly an interesting topic to read on but let's not forget that not everyone has hours to fritter away on NWN, for some players getting F2S'd is pretty much a session killer because they may only have one or two hours to play. That's not to say they should be immune to getting it thrown at them but casters should really think to themselves "Does this situation require me actually using that spell or do I see where this goes and perhaps stir the pot a bit more". I've been in situations where some interesting RP/PvP could have occured but was cut short via F2S. A transmutation like flesh to stone is basically an "I win" spell, especially if you build your wizard/sorcerer around that school.

It's possible to boost your saves and do all manner of things to counter the spell, there are plenty of PC's built around weathering magic and trying to counter DC's but that's talking game mechanics. Considering the setting and the diversity of the player characters in it, it's not unlikely to assume that not everyone is going to be enamoured with combat mechanics when they thought out their character's traits and feats.

Last time I had this spell cast at me, I had a wight rescue me from it and start ordering my character around for saving him so it -can- lead on to good things (or bad if you owe a creepy undead girl your life). Like PvP it all depends on how well or poorly the situation was handled and if anything positive actually came of it for the victim such as "I think I'll change my attitude towards others after that" or "I really enjoy this time as a statue to truly find myself, to get to know the person I am on the inside, to ponder the complexities of my role within the universe and life and....that bird just crapped on me again."  

[Avatar6666]

My point is that NWN has issues and this is one of its issues. It is built into NWN that when the caster Rest the spell goes away. This is a fact of NWN. How ever Its a bug that when the caster crashes it becomes permant, Only the reverse spell can change you back. Its a bug and needs to be fixed. I don't care how we fix it but it needs to be fixed.

I don't have an issue how the spell was used, or when it was used. It was used properly and i don't even have any issues with the MPC that used it on me. If i was in her shoes i would of as well.  Now can we approach this as a bug and not changing the spell?

[peluscious]

Is casters crashing and not coming back so common an issue?

[tzaeru]

The only think i would like done to the spell is that give it a duration other then permanent. It is suppose to go away when the caster rest. If the caster crashes you stuck thier till someone does someting to reverse. How big a difference is it to give it a turn per level duration, Still have to be around level 12 to cast it so thats 12 turns so its like 6 rounds to a turn, that works out to be 72 round. No one is going to stick around that long once you have cast the spell.

 I dont know the RL time conversion to that. Can someone look that up?

Flesh to Stone is not supposed to go away when one rests, not in DnD nor in NWN. In NWN, it's likely a bug. The real time conversion is 12 minutes. 1 turn = 1 minute, 6 seconds = 1 round, 1 turn = 10 rounds.

And Flesh to Stone is hardly overpowered considering what options a well built character of same level generally has. There are dozens of ways a Flesh to Stone vulnerable character would be killed anyway, Flesh to Stone just happens to be instant if it succeeds. But then, Stone to Flesh powders, spells and scrolls return the character with his buffs in tact, max HP and weapons at hand. That doesn't happen to a dead character. Therefore, Flesh to Stone needs something to make it better - that is, a lack of common immunity against it. If you kill someone in combat, he stays useless until the combat is over. If you Flesh to Stone someone, he's all useful again after freed from the stony prison.

Considering how often high level caster meets up against with Freedom of Movements, Mind Blanks, PfE's, Death Wards and so, I'd rather see Flesh to Stone remain without an immunity against. Otherwise, we'll have to start spamming Empowered G. Isaac's and then people are sad again and IGMS needs nerfing.

I wouldn't be horribly upset by turn / level based duration but I do think that merely kills RP rather than creates, for I at least have had a lot more fun than bore with Flesh to Stone as both the caster and victim of it.

[Ophie Kitty]

If there was to be an Immunity for Flesh to Stone, I don't beleive Freedom of Movement would make any sense.

Breaking down the spell; Freedom of Movement is an abjuration which bestows immunity to movement impairing effects, such as the spells web and slow, the drag of swimming, and avoiding grapples and success on escape artist in PNP.

Flesh to Stone is not a spell which impairs movement, it is a transmutation with an instaneous duration that turns something (or someone) into solid stone. Its hardly different then turning someone into something else via Baleful Polymorph. If I turned you into a slug, you would have the mobility of a slug. If I turn you into stone, you have the mobility of a rock.

Now; if I were to consider a spell to be its 'counter', I'd alter the Stone to Flesh spell to operate similar to Clarity. A tempoarily buff which A) Removes negative effects, and B) Prevents for a short duration.

[Mephisto]

I consider it fine as it is. It is near useless against any class that has a fortitude based save. Spellcasters will have mantles and other magical defences. That leaves only a handful of classes with real vulnerability to it. It's a very specfic spell that has specific targets. Added to the fact that it's not even an instant death spell, there are much more versatile spells to be using at that level. It's fine.

[LadyDragn]

So,

I been reading this a little bit here and there, saw one post on death and wasn't quite sure what the DM stance was on this.

So, if someone is turned to stone, and then bashed into little bits, they are permakilled? Isn't that a ruling a DM should make? As I was informed earlier that a persons character could not be Permakilled without their permission OR a DM decides it.

Just curious


And its Flesh to Stone, not Stone to Flesh... Silly People.

[Mephisto]

Being destroyed as a statue would not be closure unless the victim wishes it. This is the same as any other PvP death scenario.

However, destroying a statue to then raise the body is rather high on the lame-o-meter. If I saw this happening I would step in, and rule that it still required a stone to flesh spell be cast.

[Aduial]

pointless to write more if you dont even read  what other people post here