MPC Level Loss

[Jay]

As for MPCs meeting permadeath far more often than living PCs do, why isn't it possible to bring a player's slain ghoul or werewolf back as easily? If the Mists can allow mortals to return to life so regularly, then why wouldn't the Dark Powers here raise a werewolf from death or bend the rules and return a ghoul from oblivion, just for whatever mysterious purposes the Dark Powers serve?

Too often players screw with MPC's and then whine about bullying when the MPC takes action against them. This would go a long way to limiting the cavalier attitude so many players have about MPC's.

~Taty~

I agree with this. Odd considering  how bady i wanted to go after Angelika as Grevis. It seems very unfair that a MPC confrontaion -always- risks closure fot he character, yet as a PC I can throw myself into acid-sheith and flame-strikes with wild abandon because I know that someone will just pick me up and raise me. Maybe a middle ground could be better, giving the MPC's more power to at least perminantly harm characters who mess with them.

Spoiler: show

Like Vincent did in his creepy lab against some luckless PC's who shall remain nameless and pernianntly mentally scarred

[EO]

MPCs, unlike PCs, agree to the possibility of closure when they pick that template. It's a deliberate act, so they don't play with the same rules as regular PCs willingly.

[Mailbox0000]

 MPCs do far more 'permanent' damage then you give them credit for.

 The only MPCs at danger of dying are those without a survival mechanic. You can play them as well as you like, the fact remains, if you are caught in a bad situation you need to be able to escape. In Dougan's instance, he is obscenely fast due to some sorta speed stack. Speed is what helps lycans, but most are not monks. Vampire spawn just.. well... you need to bash their coffin after you turn them to mist. So, Vampires rarely "die". Sunlight works too, but no Vampire paying a ounce of attention will be caught by that or even near waking hours. This leaves Flesh to Stone, I feel cheesy just mentioning it, so there.

 Anyway, this just further demonstrates how only certain MPCs have means of surviving their actual role. For every time a lycan named Dougan escapes from a band of peasants with flaming pitchforks there is  another who is caught and put down. For every vampire spawn misted to float away into safety, there's a wight who's dropped on the temple dais. Of course you can play MPCs in a very careful and guarded manner, never setting foot in the bloated hub of vallaki. But this still sets two kinds of MPC... those who can survive a difficult encounter and those who cannot.

 It's something that should be looked at, is all. That is, some manner of adjustment to the current MPC rules.

 

[Minstrel]

What makes me facepalm is mainly that characters will almost never RP anything but walking along when they fell a wight in a dungeon, but when a PC wight is slain, they'll treck half way across the server to destroy the corpse.

[Jay]

What makes me facepalm is mainly that characters will almost never RP anything but walking along when they fell a wight in a dungeon, but when a PC wight is slain, they'll treck half way across the server to destroy the corpse.

Errr.. i regularly leave PC's "For Dead" rather then try and perma' them (Including "Antagonist" PC's like a certain Ex-Millita captain). But that is mostly my own ethic in regards to community play. If i know the person I'm up against is happy ending there character in a PVP i have with them, and they -want- Grevis to be the one to put them down permanently, then I'll oblige.
It just bothers me a little that some of the best Role-Players on the server who play the MPC's have to face getting permanently killed just to satisfy someones OOC/IC bragging rights. Where a PC can act like a total tool without the same risk, and god help the GM team if they are killed as the whining reaches fever pitch.

[BrightLights]

I can't help but feel like there's a lot of bitterness and negativity over all of this (especially since specific examples are being named), so I'm going to say this: Take a breath, step back. It's a game.

While it is true that MPCs have more risks than PCs, that is something that is agreed to, yes. However, I am not saying that it never happens--certainly, I am sure that some people metagame if you're a vampire or a lycanthrope.

On the other hand, try and see it from the PC angle. Perhaps what you're doing is~ sort of like bullying. I've certainly heard of not-so-great encounters with MPCs myself, in which the player felt like they were just made out to be a victim and a moron because they didn't automatically react hostilely.

Basically, I think the rules are fine as they are, but people need to be able to be flexible about what's going on around them and remember that this is primarily an RP server instead of a PVP server.

[Jay]

I can't help but feel like there's a lot of bitterness and negativity over all of this (especially since specific examples are being named), so I'm going to say this: Take a breath, step back. It's a game.

While it is true that MPCs have more risks than PCs, that is something that is agreed to, yes. However, I am not saying that it never happens--certainly, I am sure that some people metagame if you're a vampire or a lycanthrope.

On the other hand, try and see it from the PC angle. Perhaps what you're doing is~ sort of like bullying. I've certainly heard of not-so-great encounters with MPCs myself, in which the player felt like they were just made out to be a victim and a moron because they didn't automatically react hostilely.

Basically, I think the rules are fine as they are, but people need to be able to be flexible about what's going on around them and remember that this is primarily an RP server instead of a PVP server.

Err.. actually i was quite enjoying the debate. But that's just me. 

[HellsPanda]

I noticed people don't like to debate MPCs

[Minstrel]

What makes me facepalm is mainly that characters will almost never RP anything but walking along when they fell a wight in a dungeon, but when a PC wight is slain, they'll treck half way across the server to destroy the corpse.

Errr.. i regularly leave PC's "For Dead" rather then try and perma' them (Including "Antagonist" PC's like a certain Ex-Millita captain). But that is mostly my own ethic in regards to community play. If i know the person I'm up against is happy ending there character in a PVP i have with them, and they -want- Grevis to be the one to put them down permanently, then I'll oblige.
It just bothers me a little that some of the best Role-Players on the server who play the MPC's have to face getting permanently killed just to satisfy someones OOC/IC bragging rights. Where a PC can act like a total tool without the same risk, and god help the GM team if they are killed as the whining reaches fever pitch.

Good on you.

Sadly there are those who consider the bragging rights over the bigger picture, even when IC it makes no sense (unless the character they play RP's dragging every undead or werewolf they kill back to a temple and destroying it).

The more left alive (er... still intact) the better.

I wasn't targetting anyone with that statement, it's a while since I've seen it done. But in general, there is metagaming in that players will react massively differently when they kill a PC were or wight than when they kill an NPC one, which contributes to the worry those players need to have about permadeath. If a dead were was treated like every other dead were, for example left dead on the floor, then there'd be less abrupt endings of MPC's and more incentive for them to make more risky and enjoyable encounters.

[marlewebber]

Re: MPC Level Loss

This conversation has resurfaced a few times, I wonder if people want the ECL level loss to go away because:

  It would make monsters more powerful.  Is this what people want?

  It would make them more accessible because would be no deterrent to stop every PC from having a monstrous career?

As I said earlier I think it is fine the way it is, I'll echo the sentiment that if we remember it is an RP server, it really doesn't have anything to do with levels.

[tzaeru]

It would make monsters more powerful.  Is this what people want?

Definitely. Or I do, at least.

It would make them more accessible because would be no deterrent to stop every PC from having a monstrous career?

Isn't the application process already in place for somewhat controlling the amount and MPC-having players?

And to clarify here, just in case, personally I feel the level drop should be halved. However, actual ECL is fine as it is.

[marlewebber]

What about the MPCs who have (painfully) endured the requirements - are they entitled to receiving half their ECL back?

Even with the level drop it is possible for an MPC to achieve 20+ Challenge Rating.  MPCs used to have to gain xp like everyone else but that was remedied by them using a different EXP setup - the actual ECL is rather moot now.  The level drop remains the only negative, and if you think about it, it prevents a player character from suddenly gaining 3-6 levels of power.

[Ellana Twiggy]

I understand each time I play ellana that she could become perma dead, though I would much rather finish out her rp and hunt for her master strahd.  As far as dying perminently via a player, possible, but not likely. I intentionally use subdual when ever I am rping with her, that way I dun out right slaughter new pc's in the outskirts. I personally think that in pvp subdual is what should be used, but thats just me, it allows for more rp, which is why we play.

[Arcus]

I'm going to assume you forgot today.

Though, I rather like Tarokka's idea. Open up MPCs as "starter" chars, having a starting level of say, 2+Current Level loss. So, vampire spawn lose, what, four levels? A requested Starter one would start at 6. I saw elsewhere they automatically get their daily xp anyway so it wont be much of an issue as for leveling after. Lets you start out as a monster, but still reflects that you're a fledgling.

[dutchy]

Re: MPC Level Loss

This conversation has resurfaced a few times, I wonder if people want the ECL level loss to go away because:

  It would make monsters more powerful.  Is this what people want?


As I said earlier I think it is fine the way it is, I'll echo the sentiment that if we remember it is an RP server, it really doesn't have anything to do with levels.

yesss   the comunity is stronger so the mpc ecl's should be readjusted to fit them accordingly    see it like pest controll with the regular pc beeing the pest and the mpc beeing the control   to fight the pests they need to be around the same lvl  and atm there are more high lvl pc's around then mpc's wich means they dont stand a chance beside plotting wich means we dont see enough mpc action like we should on a horror  server, but thats just me

[herkles]

For were-creatures, I am wondering if it is possible to script the difference chemical banes into the game. As not every were-creature is weak to silver, but they have different weaknesses, some types are weak to wood, cold iron, bone, obsidian, and so forth.  This might make were creatures stronger, as this means you would have to research what their weakness is. Is this scriptiable?