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Author Topic: Too many areas?  (Read 6157 times)

herkles

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Too many areas?
« on: June 12, 2010, 01:29:12 AM »
Hello,

Now this might sound strange, but I am wondering if there are too many areas and domains on the server? Right now Barovia is a massive domain in the server, but you also have bluetspur, hazlan, the port and so on. It just feels like the server is quite large and yet with the population of the server in the 20s to 30s at a time, It is quite hard to find rp in the towns in barovia, rp in the port seems to be rarely happening. I remember when I first arrived here that the Broken Bell Inn recived plenty of rp, and yet the inns inside the town are empty.

My question is ultimately this, are there too many areas in the module or is this just all in my head?

-herkles-


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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2010, 01:47:44 AM »
The problem here is not the areas, but the players. Everyone seems to be rather focused on forming little cliques and never getting outside of their comfort zones where they might be at risk somehow. To be honest, my character and a few others frequently travel outside of Barovia as part of our roleplay - ironically due to the fact that nobody else leaves Barovia half the time. Since our characters are professional monster slayers, and the huge number of clique'ish adventurers situated in Barovia pretty much takes away all of their business, we actively roleplay travelling to other domains in search of work. If anything, were there fewer areas, we'd actually have even less to roleplay about due to the fact that hardly any players want anything to do with someone who isn't going to do exactly what they want to do every time, or doesn't want to grovel before their Mary Sue'ish characters.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 01:49:20 AM by Major Tom »

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2010, 02:05:24 AM »
I disagree, I think if you shorten the list of where people go they would group in the up to 3 area's. Hence more rp because more PC's in that area. As it is right now i think thier are to many options. Not enough to stop people from traveling all sorts of places. RP suffers where you cant find PC's to rp with.


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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2010, 02:13:47 AM »
When I was not a dm here I travelled all over the server with my group and it was totally worth it! You get so many different sights and opportunities to rp, I can just encourage everyone to take a group and go travelling - of course if it fits to the char concept. ;) I promise you, it's worth it! :)

Problem is not the areas - these are just possibilities - all you need is just to encourage people. :)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 02:16:49 AM by DM Macabre »

Major Tom

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2010, 03:28:02 AM »
I disagree, I think if you shorten the list of where people go they would group in the up to 3 area's. Hence more rp because more PC's in that area. As it is right now i think thier are to many options. Not enough to stop people from traveling all sorts of places. RP suffers where you cant find PC's to rp with.


I've been in an area where up to ten players were situated with me. They all segregated themselves into cliques of 3-4, and pretty much ignored everyone else. Even if you limited the areas so much that everyone had to be in the same small room together, people are still going to act clique'ish and totally ignore anyone who isn't involved in their own little personal groups. And make no mistake, I made the effort to try and get involved with these people. My character had his own little roleplay going on, and was trying to find out information in regards to it - that doesn't mean he was telling people to drop whatever they were doing and go off with him. It was something as simple as a mere interaction, and they still ignored him in favor of whispering amongst one another.

Again, the problem isn't the areas, it's the people.

Hardly anybody wants to do anything besides play a goodie-goodie adventurer type who's the center of the galaxy and makes his way to the middle of the stage to save the day. It's one of the reasons MPCs are hardly ever played, as well as the reason they hardly ever come out to interact with players. A vampire or werebeast character can't go out at night and prey on whoever was stupid enough to wander the outskirts, because the moment they kill that person, a mob of moderate-to-high level characters show up and gang up on that one MPC.

It's kind of sad how a setting that's supposed to center around people feeling alienated and vulnerable, racism and a fear of the dark is now entirely misbalanced with people huddling together in packs of high-powered individuals, absolute tolerance of caliban (being an Outlander who might be willing to heal a caliban half-orc is one thing, but when a character with goat legs stands in the middle of the Morninglord church chit-chatting about how he has devil-blood in him and everyone just smiles and nods, it's already far too absurd) and the forces of darkness themselves are pretty much cornered and on the ropes. And what makes it worse than anything is the fact that it's next to impossible TO play an evil character. Either you're forced to work alone, which results in you being too weak to actually do any evil, or if you try to involve yourself with other players, you run the risk of having several high-level goodie two-shoes characters smiting you with impunity.

So no. It's not the areas. If anything, a vaster amount of areas means there's more places for the evil types to lurk around and gather strength - y'know.. if PLAYERS bothered to put the effort into doing so. Let all the happy, dapper goodly types congregate in Vallaki, then. Instead, there should be more and more evil types using the other areas and domains as  their base of operation.

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2010, 03:50:00 AM »
I think this thread will end in the usual "Everyone plays as he/she wishes in respect of the game of the others". I don't like Outskirts, when these threads come out I never miss the chance to state it, but this is why I go there just if -forced- (ICly) or if I am extremely bored (OOCly). As far as tolerance, racism, fear, etc, I can partially agree with all this, but it's a bit too much giving any advance judgement without knowing WHY any specific character behaves in that way: maybe there is a story behind our character doesn't/can't know entirely.

For what concerns AREAS in the specific I would re-direct to this, just to mention probably the latest one:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=19302.45

From another thread I will quote myself (the thread was http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=20149.0)

1) Reasons why going somewhere -> a) practical: things to buy, things to sell, materials to be found, places to visit with profit.
                                                    b)  expectations: some role which can be obtained there that can't be reached somewhere else, unique settings and chances for different plots.

2) Reasons why homebrewed realm -> a) fitting more those things the team has been thinking about and which can be adjusted with no fear of being uncanonical, though remaining in Ravenloft mood.
                                                      b) cluster realm means there will be less dispersion within the realm itself once players go there.

3) Reasons why I am posting here since I would have rather seen some more Barovian towns or bordering realms to Barovia (even just bits of them):
                                                      a) it's players giving sense to any place where they are, remaining in-setting, the more areas there are the more places can be used for this, not depending necessarily on the nature of the place itself.                              
                                                      b) I am glad the team is still hard working in devloping of areas.


Basically I don't think there are too many areas. I simply think it's needed an effort from more than one side (not just players, not just older players, not just DMs or developers) to make them "alive". Then, if one wants to make roots in Western Outskirts (because there are MANY players who even when offered alternative choices keep going back there WHATEVER it may happen) I think it's a personal choice. Not mine...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 03:51:43 AM by +Ciaran+ »
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2010, 04:47:33 AM »
Quote
Hardly anybody wants to do anything besides play a goodie-goodie adventurer type who's the center of the galaxy and makes his way to the middle of the stage to save the day.

lolz, couldn't have said it better myself. People also have an annoying habit of wanting to have the last word or win every argument. You clearly point something out to someone that they are wrong and they say something retarded back just for the sake of it. Whatever happend to storming off begrudged or blushing embarrassed?

Anyone to contribute to this thread, I used to play on a server called Imperial Dusk, its still knocking around I think. Great place, very good staff, but allways had a tiny playerbase. It had hundreds of areas and two factions. Good guys of the imperial realms and bad guys of darkendale. Darkendales used to piss of the goodys and more often than not had to run off to avoid getting killed but it was fun, I used to play a sorcerer so I ran off using expeditious retreat (my favourite level one spell) mainly because I couldn't pvp anyone. Anyway this huge module and tiny player base didn't hinder us at all its all down to the people and what characters you play.

hugolino

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2010, 09:53:35 AM »
Hardly anybody wants to do anything besides play a goodie-goodie adventurer type who's the center of the galaxy and makes his way to the middle of the stage to save the day.

I don't think the population of good and evil characters is fixed. Rather I've seen it shift over time and I'm sure it will continue to do so. Sometimes I have found the evil characters to strongly outnumber the good ones, so much so that my good characters still tend to be loners to this day out of learned paranoia.

It's one of the reasons MPCs are hardly ever played, as well as the reason they hardly ever come out to interact with players. A vampire or werebeast character can't go out at night and prey on whoever was stupid enough to wander the outskirts, because the moment they kill that person, a mob of moderate-to-high level characters show up and gang up on that one MPC.

Heh. You are not part of my world apparently. One of my good characters has been repeatedly drained by vampires, both DM's NPCs and PCs. Another of my characters was only recently killed by a vampire PC while traveling to Vallaki at night (during a corpse retrieval for a stranger). In all of these cases, there were no repercussions that I'm aware of. In character and out of character, it did not even occur to me to try to get revenge, and I doubt I would have been able to stir up a posse of avengers even if I had wished.

It's kind of sad how a setting that's supposed to center around people feeling alienated and vulnerable, racism and a fear of the dark is now entirely misbalanced with people huddling together in packs of high-powered individuals, absolute tolerance of caliban...

I do have one timid half-orc who has worked long and hard in raising his influence skill to soothe others fears, and sometimes will linger in the Temple (he was banned from the Drain by evil PCs less than a year ago). But he still is fearful of Radu and the Garda, especially after one incident where NPC garda in Vallaki chased him down, beat him unconscious and left him unable to move at all for a game day and night (partially due to an NPC glitch I think).

And he is the only "caliban" I have who is even as daring as he is. My other "calibans" only pass through the outskirts by necessity, avoid most everyone and skulk about primarily in isolation, which has gotten even harder to endure OOC because the Sewers, once a busy place of roleplay, has become desolate of players (thank goodness for Degannwy). In fact, I've almost given up on playing any of my half-orc/caliban characters at the moment. It is just very hard and isolated, which I'll admit is what it is supposed to be for such outcasts.

And what makes it worse than anything is the fact that it's next to impossible TO play an evil character. Either you're forced to work alone, which results in you being too weak to actually do any evil, or if you try to involve yourself with other players, you run the risk of having several high-level goodie two-shoes characters smiting you with impunity.

Interesting. I've sometimes felt it was extremely hard to endure as a good character for similar reasons. From unpleasant experience, I've learned not to ever fully trust my fellow players and not to underestimate the darkness that some players/characters can conceive. Right at this moment I'd agree with you that life has, for now, gotten easier for good-aligned characters, which has been a relief for me personally, but even in this period I've had several run-ins with monster PCs and I've had plenty of heart-pounding moments of fear, as well as some unpleasant ones.

Regardless, I don't think everything will continue as it is now indefinitely. In every community there are phases and seasons.

So no. It's not the areas. If anything, a vaster amount of areas means there's more places for the evil types to lurk around and gather strength - y'know.. if PLAYERS bothered to put the effort into doing so. Let all the happy, dapper goodly types congregate in Vallaki, then. Instead, there should be more and more evil types using the other areas and domains as  their base of operation.

I'd recommend the sewers. Even though none of my characters are evil, it is sad to see the sewers so underused when they used to be so alive with the bad, the good and the ugly.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 10:05:46 AM by hugolino »

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2010, 10:14:07 AM »
Quote
A vampire or werebeast character can't go out at night and prey on whoever was stupid enough to wander the outskirts, because the moment they kill that person, a mob of moderate-to-high level characters show up and gang up on that one MPC.    
Maybe we are playing during different time, but I havent seen people ganging on mpc unless mpc wanted for it to turn this way. (I mean provoking guards so they ll use horn, or appear in front of many pc or letting his victim go and wait for other to show up and see what the fuss).
Actually it is either mpc kills, tortures its victim and it doesnt matter what happens after because MPC leaves after that or victim escapes and MPC leaves or waits to fight with others.


Many evil chars are wanted so it is reasonable for them to avoid crowded places and those whom are not dont usually walk around and yell how evil they are so even if pc standing in the outskirts and smiles to everybody doesnt mean he is good, I am sure some of them may hate freaks and undead thus helping good aligned characters aswell in this case, if they can benefit from it.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 10:20:20 AM by Springer »
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2010, 11:13:47 AM »
The clique thing is what really irritates me.
If you look at the characters i play most often, they are the kind who either are rude enough to simply insert themselves into others' RP, crazy enough to insert themselves without really noticing it wasn't about themselves in the first place, or full of themselves and believing that they are the center of the universe.
My other characters get ignored so I stop playing them much. If at all.
Which is sad, cause some of them are my more favorite characters.
Just no one to RP with.

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2010, 11:32:57 AM »
I think you all have good point. but as someone who has only been playing about a month. allow me to offer my perspective?

I'm playing one of those annoying "goodie-Goodie" types, who is generally amiable and accepting of most people on account of the fact that he's forced to rely on judging people by there actions rather then their appearance. Don't get me wrong, if a goat-legs showed up and started banging on about being demon-descended I would probably figure that is enough reason to get in his face and run him out of town. But being Good in Ravenloft isn't re-assuring, it's playing a victim waiting to happen, you trust people, you give them the benefit of the doubt, you charge off to help them if they ask it, then you get betrayed and murderized. Hence my reluctance to leave my safety zone.
The other reason is necessity. When playing a Goodie-Goodie, there is plenty to keep you busy just working in Villaki, and you don't have the inclination to go elsewhere, because you have no reason to when there are problems right here that need solving, those Orphans/Morninglordians need help!
Lastly there is fact that Im quite low level. And getting splattered across the landscape is a significant risk in time/xp and adventuring gear. Yes it's an OOC reason, but I think one my IC character can empathise with as no-one wants to wander off and die somewhere by misadventure, especially somewhere like Borovia.
Perhaps offering a little more incentive to explore would be good? Plot idea's that span over several maps, like lost/kidnapped people, treasure maps, escort missions, pilgrimages etc...
I would LOVE to go and see all the sights the server has to offer. But I just don't want it to be a big fat waste of time that leaves my body miles away from where anyone can get it back for me, and convincing your IC friends to leave there business because hey I wanna see whats up north can get you some weird looks at best and some ex-friends at worst.

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2010, 01:35:50 PM »

Perhaps offering a little more incentive to explore would be good? Plot idea's that span over several maps, like lost/kidnapped people, treasure maps, escort missions, pilgrimages etc...
I would LOVE to go and see all the sights the server has to offer. But I just don't want it to be a big fat waste of time that leaves my body miles away from where anyone can get it back for me, and convincing your IC friends to leave there business because hey I wanna see whats up north can get you some weird looks at best and some ex-friends at worst.


There are delivery missions, and bounties (of people or items).
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Antonus Taran

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 01:47:25 PM »
Generally the western outskirts is a burnout experience that becomes endlessly tedious and predictable. That's why I would usually avoid that place as much as possible with my evil characters, it would just bring headaches. Arguing with every mary-sue touting 21st century morals gets extremely tiresome, especially when it borders on ooc.

The best roleplay, I've found, is far from the outskirts. Approaching the horde of afk outskirts arm-crossers doesn't often bring anything interesting. (Then again, I rarely play anymore due to lack of interesting things to do, since I've seen every single area on the module, plus the fact that any form of PC-on-PC conflict ends in tears and CC complaints rather than interesting roleplay)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 01:52:31 PM by Antonus Taran »
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2010, 04:36:24 PM »

Perhaps offering a little more incentive to explore would be good? Plot idea's that span over several maps, like lost/kidnapped people, treasure maps, escort missions, pilgrimages etc...
I would LOVE to go and see all the sights the server has to offer. But I just don't want it to be a big fat waste of time that leaves my body miles away from where anyone can get it back for me, and convincing your IC friends to leave there business because hey I wanna see whats up north can get you some weird looks at best and some ex-friends at worst.


There are delivery missions, and bounties (of people or items).

True, but the idea of carrering off into the great unknown in seach of Bounties/Dilivery can be quite intimidating when you have no idea what you will run into.

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2010, 04:38:25 PM »
The clique thing is what really irritates me. If you look at the characters i play most often, they are the kind who either are rude enough to simply insert themselves into others' RP, crazy enough to insert themselves without really noticing it wasn't about themselves in the first place, or full of themselves and believing that they are the center of the universe.

I agree that these clique-breaking strategies works. I have a character who is all three of the things you mentioned and he never lacks for roleplay. Fortunately he is also quite tough, because his characteristics have gotten negative results as well.

However most of my characters aren't like him and they fare less well in roleplay.


Perhaps offering a little more incentive to explore would be good? Plot idea's that span over several maps, like lost/kidnapped people, treasure maps, escort missions, pilgrimages etc...
I would LOVE to go and see all the sights the server has to offer. But I just don't want it to be a big fat waste of time that leaves my body miles away from where anyone can get it back for me, and convincing your IC friends to leave there business because hey I wanna see whats up north can get you some weird looks at best and some ex-friends at worst.


There are delivery missions, and bounties (of people or items).

True, but the idea of carrering off into the great unknown in seach of Bounties/Dilivery can be quite intimidating when you have no idea what you will run into.

Heh... one of my recent characters frequently runs deliveries, and he is also the one currently who has had the most bleeding near-deaths and MPC encounters. ;)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 04:42:12 PM by hugolino »

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2010, 04:43:06 PM »

True, but the idea of carrering off into the great unknown in seach of Bounties/Dilivery can be quite intimidating when you have no idea what you will run into.

Feel free to contact me in tells in any of those characters mentioned below, I can show you some of the server, if the thing can be arranged ICly between our chars.
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2010, 04:45:13 PM »
More area's are good... Variety being the spice of life.

Yes it's true that most still hang out in the outskirts myself included. It's the RP hub after all but I'm continiously travelling out of said area to othe places with both my characters. I think I could navigate the road to Village Barovia in my sleep I've done it that often. So the incentive to see new things is always a plus. Personaly I do not believe there is enough area's as most dungeons I end up trekking to seems to be cleared before I get there. Thus I think plenty are travelling furthur abroad than what anybody thinks.

As for mid to high levels ganging up on a MPC... well goes both ways so I've seen. I hate PVP for the most part and my general concensus is it should not be allowed period. D&D was always meant to be a co-operative game or so I understood. However this is not my server and so I must play by what rules have been placed down by others. I've had four encounters with MPC thus far and none but one ended in favour of the PC's involved. Mostly it seems to me anyway, MPC's get to wipe the floor with most of us goody goody types :P

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2010, 04:47:23 PM »

True, but the idea of carrering off into the great unknown in seach of Bounties/Dilivery can be quite intimidating when you have no idea what you will run into.

Feel free to contact me in tells in any of those characters mentioned below, I can show you some of the server, if the thing can be arranged ICly between our chars.

Heh... I've been playing here for about two years or so and today was the first day I visited the Vistani camp in the Mists. So now I hypothetically know how to reach other domains but still haven't been to any besides Barovia. I think that may be partly because all of my characters are low level or somewhat low level and I have no idea what level those other areas are geared for.

As for mid to high levels ganging up on a MPC... well goes both ways so I've seen. I hate PVP for the most part and my general concensus is it should not be allowed period. D&D was always meant to be a co-operative game or so I understood. However this is not my server and so I must play by what rules have been placed down by others. I've had four encounters with MPC thus far and none but one ended in favour of the PC's involved. Mostly it seems to me anyway, MPC's get to wipe the floor with most of us goody goody types :P

I agree with you on PvP and that D&D is meant to be cooperative, but like you I accept that the server rules are what they are. For some reason, I also find it easier to accept MPC hostility than fellow player hostility -- maybe that's because of my pen and paper roots.

My worst pen and paper D&D game that I can recall was one in which players of radically conflicting alignment played as part of the same adventuring group. I had fellow PCs trying (unsuccessfully) to kill my chaotic good beastmaster dwarf in his sleep each night, which I only knew about OOC, and cheering when a PC mage's lightning spell accidentally (or negligently) fried a number of my beast companions. The game naturally disintegrated on its own after a few sessions.

In contrast, monster players are usually obvious deadly antagonists (rather than treacherous companions) and I'm okay with them.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 04:58:17 PM by hugolino »

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2010, 04:47:46 PM »
I think being able to travel to some other locations more easily for new players would be a rather awesome thing. Also I believe a way to locate players in game with a small tool, that anyone could opt out of at any time if they're doing "private" roleplaying, would also be another way to help with people hanging around the Outskirts and doing nothing. Being able to travel to places of interest quickly and easily would honestly make me consider leaving the Outskirts for good, me and many others I'm sure.

There is nothing like logging in with like 35 players online and only finding 4 of them in the outskirts and logging back out instantly because you're bored to hell and don't have the means/time to travel to other locations and hope to find people there too.
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2010, 01:43:33 PM »
When people ate on it seems to me like 25% are hiding in the church, anouther 25 are out farming.The rest are wandering around rp somewhere or on there way to somewhere with a group, or out looking for herbs. Naturally the above percentages are probobly incorect but you get the idea.

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2010, 06:20:04 AM »
I'd largely like to agree with Major Tom's sentiments. In my short time back, I have unfortunately come across a lot of Mary Sue characters that really make me roll my eyes. Far too many clique-ish attitudes in the people characters roleplay with and the way they roleplay their characters which naturally leads to an extremely stagnant atmosphere. Now, I have most certainly seen and met several outstanding and well thought out (and acted) characters as well, but unfortunately such things seem rather rare. :/

Having a large playing area will certainly do nothing but enrich the RP itself as it gives players many great and thrilling experiences that they can cater to their character type (meaning, they have a large selection of places to go that makes sense for their character to go to). And OOCly, it keeps players interested and fascinated with the setting as it keeps things fresh and new to them which is excellent for immersion.
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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2010, 04:54:40 PM »
Much like Ciaran, I mostly avoid the western outskirts anymore.  It has its good moments, but it also has a vast amount of ridiculousness.  Worse than that it has the large number of folk who stand around and lean on things, whispering to their compatriots, and overall accomplishing nothing much.  Now I'm guilty of having done that too, until I started looking around and thinking... this is dull and I'm getting no good stories out of it.  These days, if I'm in the outskirts anymore its generally as a meeting point or to trade.  Or, also like Ciaran, sheer OOC boredom and curiousity.

MPCs get mobbed attacking the outskirts, where there is usually a small army at quick call.  In the older days, the MPCs had the firepower to attack the outskirts and still hold their own.  Mostly that was due to higher level MPCs and some skilled players behind them, like Negnar (damn that hilarious drive-by disarming dwarven werewolf!), Claire Klimt, Tarth, etc.  Also those MPCs had a great deal of DM support, thats absent anymore.  The smart way to play an MPC these days is to avoid striking the outskirts, and instead stalk and prey on lone targets in other locations.

Anyway.  I've played here a bit now, and there are still plenty areas and secrets that I've not seen or learned.  I love that, new surprises make my day.  The spread of areas does make the server sparse sometimes, but still, I do like the world to be wide.

Gorasin

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2010, 10:06:44 PM »
I am moving towards avoiding the skirts. I rather spend my char nights elsewhere. Unfortunately this has the side effect of missing almost everything. I would be based in port a lucine but little interaction there for me and not much to do otherwise. The trip time is nice but constantly waiting forever to get there has reduced my desire to visit there except for short jaunts.
Other problem is as an herbalist most of those selling stay at the skirts. I would rather have them come to midway but most will not make the trip there so you have to go where they are.
The dark side is always there, waiting for us to enter, waiting to enter us.
Until next time, try to enjoy the daylight.

Moridan_X

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2010, 11:34:12 PM »
It's kind of sad how a setting that's supposed to center around people feeling alienated and vulnerable, racism and a fear of the dark is now entirely misbalanced with people huddling together in packs of high-powered individuals, absolute tolerance of caliban (being an Outlander who might be willing to heal a caliban half-orc is one thing, but when a character with goat legs stands in the middle of the Morninglord church chit-chatting about how he has devil-blood in him and everyone just smiles and nods, it's already far too absurd).

Generally Goat-legged demons standing in the middle of a good temple is all players' fault, both sides are doin' it wrong cuz the demon shouldn't be standing there, and the ppl inside shouldn't let him stand there, especially in a ravenloft setting... Even in any other setting... Maybe DMs need to take control of the situation in this case you're talking about (with the NPC guards in the building that would probably not approve of spawns of evil).
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tzaeru

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Re: Too many areas?
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2010, 01:01:56 AM »
It's kind of sad how a setting that's supposed to center around people feeling alienated and vulnerable, racism and a fear of the dark is now entirely misbalanced with people huddling together in packs of high-powered individuals, absolute tolerance of caliban (being an Outlander who might be willing to heal a caliban half-orc is one thing, but when a character with goat legs stands in the middle of the Morninglord church chit-chatting about how he has devil-blood in him and everyone just smiles and nods, it's already far too absurd).

Generally Goat-legged demons standing in the middle of a good temple is all players' fault, both sides are doin' it wrong cuz the demon shouldn't be standing there, and the ppl inside shouldn't let him stand there, especially in a ravenloft setting... Even in any other setting... Maybe DMs need to take control of the situation in this case you're talking about (with the NPC guards in the building that would probably not approve of spawns of evil).

Oh, actually, there is a problem there for PCs. My paladin would happily smite first and asked questions later, but then, how can he know whether the Morninglordians accept the goat-legged one inside the church? In past it was made pretty clear that no PC should ever make up NPC reactions without a DM (or scripts). Therefore if my paladin did smite the demon-spawn and it turned out the Morninglordians did allow him into the church, he'd shown pretty bad disrespect considering his own dogma.

Effectively it's hard to do a thing in situations like that for majority of characters who would never use any sort of violence in someone else's church unless asked to.