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Author Topic: Fear and the effect of it.  (Read 2809 times)

Metal_ash

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Fear and the effect of it.
« on: June 14, 2010, 07:55:05 AM »
This is something that have botherd me a bit since i first even started to play NWN. I have learned to live with it, but if it could be changed i would sure welcome such. I might be the only one feel like this but i consider the effect of fear in NWN is a bit to harsh.

I not talk about the effect of fear that DMs can have you roll a check for in face of danger but the effect of the spell and auras of for example some undeads have.

When you get effected by fear you start to run around loosing every bit of controll over your character, most of the times if effected by fear you end up dead one way or the other.
I would rather see Fear give you a nasty negative effect on both maybe AC and AB and most other skills to symbol the effect.

I not even certain such can be scripted and this is just how i look upon the effect of fear.

Fear shall be a nasty thing to be effected by but to totally loose every sense of survival instinct is to harsh in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 07:56:53 AM by Metal_ash »

HellsPanda

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2010, 08:20:10 AM »
this matter has been taken up before, I think the Devs said they where going too look into it, but not sure

dark_majico

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2010, 01:48:34 PM »
The game designers didnt really get it that wrong when you look at what the pnp rule of frigfhtend is. Looking at the players handbook, it says that creatures who are frightend either flee from the source of fear as best they can, or if they are unable to flee they fight. They also have a -2 on all attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks when frightend. Your will save determines if you fight or flee, a sucsesfull save is a fight, a failed save is a flee. This fleeing action nwn puts you in is normal. The only thing they might have missed out is the -2 to rolls (who here has bothered to check if this happens or not? I havnt up until now). This isnt surprising though because the engine is not going to know if your charecter is in a situation to flee or not too, so logicly it makes you flee in all circumstances on the fail.

I suppose though if anything was to be done, they might be able to add in the -2 to all saves and rolls for X ammount of rounds/turns whatever, and then add in a second save to determine if you fight or flee. How possible this is I have no idea.

herkles

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2010, 01:56:39 PM »
It is magical fear, it is not normal fear. thus because of something called magic, it works as intended IMO.


Minstrel

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 02:01:32 PM »
Sadly, any system that allows PC's to retain control of their char allow for the Fear effect to be ignored and exploited.

And any effects that are put in to encourage people to flee are massively crippling in some other way.

Examples:

A feared Fighter goes into Improved Expertise and just sits tanking as if Fear wasn't happening.

A feared caster goes around using potions on people.

dark_majico

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 02:06:20 PM »
It is magical fear, it is not normal fear. thus because of something called magic, it works as intended IMO.

lol BECAUSE ITS MAGIC FEAR!! [smack]

I like that explination to everything in D&D, because its magical, however I dont think there is a distinction between magical fear and regular fear, so I am imune to such reasoning  :lol:

hugolino

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 09:12:20 PM »
It is magical fear, it is not normal fear. thus because of something called magic, it works as intended IMO.

lol BECAUSE ITS MAGIC FEAR!! [smack]

I like that explination to everything in D&D, because its magical, however I dont think there is a distinction between magical fear and regular fear, so I am imune to such reasoning  :lol:

Its magical reasoning. There is no immunity or saves allowed. ;)

Emomina

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2010, 09:26:42 PM »
With fear, confusion, domination it really is a case of being proactive and its a non issue.

The only time any of them have ever bothered me is when a ghost stag or similiar is camped on a transition, and you can not prepare in time.

Also, in my experience most of the DCs are quite reasonable for all but the weak will save classes.
Feast or famine. Either fail for sure. (Because of the engine rerolling every time the aura encroacches again) or the DC is too low to fail.

Fear is annoying, but quite easily avoided.
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Kendric98

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2010, 12:52:36 PM »
Oh no not this again!  :shock:

Samson/Tatyanna Costella

X5Alexander

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 03:49:55 AM »
I say fear increases a character's speed by 300 percent and then is uncontrollable so that we can watch them run around in circles like idiots. yep. and possibly put smoke clouds under their feat like in old cartoons.

Metal_ash

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 05:46:51 AM »
The problem in my opinion is that if you are effected by fear you not run for your life, as you character most often runs in circles or straight in to the next bunsh of enemies.
The effect of fear is rather silly working really... just what i think of it.

Minstrel

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 11:38:50 AM »
Up for any suggestions of a system that works.

Best I can think of is, for the duration of the Fear, alternating between you having one round of control, and one round of being controlled by the NWN fear mechanic, which sounds somewhat overly complicated. But it would allow you to generally get away from combat and prevent your character from charging into the next room full of monsters.

Metal_ash

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 06:59:22 PM »
I ain't certain what system would work really...

Maybe a system working as  Minstrel  mention here, or maybe a system with some nasty negatives that maybe force you to run away for your life.
If the current system could work so you backtrack, running back the same way you came maybe even this system we have now would work...
Most troublesome for now in my opinion is not that you loose controll but the total lack of survival instinct your character gets when under the effect of fear... with that i mean no survival instinct at all and acted as he/she was totally blind to.

Mordch

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2010, 07:20:07 PM »
My biggest problem with fear is fear aura, and because of it going in to a fear loop due to the character running around triggering the aura again and again. often many or all enemies in the spawn may have the aura which just makes it even worse.

the only way I can think of how to prevent that is to give a character under fear a massive will save boost, but that might play foul with other spells/abilities.

Minstrel

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 02:42:29 PM »
I ain't certain what system would work really...

Maybe a system working as  Minstrel  mention here, or maybe a system with some nasty negatives that maybe force you to run away for your life.
If the current system could work so you backtrack, running back the same way you came maybe even this system we have now would work...
Most troublesome for now in my opinion is not that you loose controll but the total lack of survival instinct your character gets when under the effect of fear... with that i mean no survival instinct at all and acted as he/she was totally blind to.

There is a problem with this.

The nasty negatives would either be minor enough to be ignored by some classes, or so powerful that certain classes are entirely doomed by it.

For example, giving -10 AC would mean a Fighter could hit Improved Expertise and continue being a tank, so you make it -15 AC causing a rogue to have their AC reduced to about 8 and be doomed should anything still try to hit them.

You need something that maintains the intended effect of Fear, that being breaking up party formations, without using the default NWN system that, whilst it completely breaks up party formations, makes you utterly stupid.

herkles

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 02:50:48 PM »
I still think, that just because it is magical fear, it is fine as it is. it is magic after all.


dark_majico

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2010, 07:49:51 AM »
Its quite odviouse that messing with the fear mechanics is going to be too difficult, I was willing to entertain this thought once but not anymore  :lol:.

The answer to this conundrem is to party up with a wizard or a sorcerer and get protection from alighnments dished out, most things with fear auras are going to be evil alighned rather than good so theres a fairly good chance you will get to bypass it.

Minstrel

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Re: Fear and the effect of it.
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2010, 11:18:09 AM »
Its quite odviouse that messing with the fear mechanics is going to be too difficult, I was willing to entertain this thought once but not anymore  :lol:.

The answer to this conundrem is to party up with a wizard or a sorcerer and get protection from alighnments dished out, most things with fear auras are going to be evil alighned rather than good so theres a fairly good chance you will get to bypass it.

A Wizard, or a Cleric, or a Bard.

Or anyone with an Aber Dreamcatcher.