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Author Topic: New parry system  (Read 32667 times)

Blacky Rose

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2010, 05:58:12 PM »
I admit I had reservations but this seems pretty fine.

The only real bug at the moment seems to be the bonus doesn't go when you unequip your weapons and even remains if you equip a bow afterwards.

That should be fixed by now. There was an update.

I'm aware, but it still happens to me.

It is working correctly for me also (bonus is removed when unequipping the melee weapon or switching to a bow).
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Shadowthrone

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2010, 06:18:27 PM »
Strange. I'll see if I can get a DM to debug me or something.

Avatar6666

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2010, 06:45:40 PM »
Two things i have noticed when in parry mode as my monk.

1.)  when you are parring and your enemy runs away you do not get an attack of Opportunity.

2.) When parring multiple enemies and one runs away the parry mode drops, If you were parrying that enemy.

Not sure if this is the way you designed it but this is what is happening, i have tested it 4 times so far with the same results. Just wanted to report this not sure if its ment to be this way or not.



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Time_Stomped

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2010, 07:17:06 PM »
Two things i have noticed when in parry mode as my monk.

1.)  when you are parring and your enemy runs away you do not get an attack of Opportunity.

2.) When parring multiple enemies and one runs away the parry mode drops, If you were parrying that enemy.

Not sure if this is the way you designed it but this is what is happening, i have tested it 4 times so far with the same results. Just wanted to report this not sure if its ment to be this way or not.

That's NWN parry.  The PotM parry system is a AC bonus.  You can use both, lol.
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Shadowthrone

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2010, 07:32:33 PM »
Strange. I'll see if I can get a DM to debug me or something.

I got a DM to try and help me. The debug wand removed the Shield AC bonus from Parry but whenever I drew a weapon, the bonus would not go away once I unequiped it. We tried relogging, killing and resurrecting the character, re-taking her previous level, but nothing seemed to work - when I unequiped her weapon I'd get the removal message but the AC would remain. We also checked if it was simply a display bug by attacking the character, but the AC shown on her character sheet was accurate. I checked my other character with parry and it was working fine for her.

The bugged characters name is Sofiya Tatsuo. Seems she is the only one bugged, everyone else I speak to has it working flawlessly. I'm hoping the bug will disappear as mysteriously as it came next server reset.

Still, free AC when unarmed. There are worse bugs.


EDIT: lol, I just found the cause. If I equip/unequip one single weapon it adds/removes normally. However, if I use my dual-wielding equip/unequip quickslot, it does not remove correctly. So there you have it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 07:35:48 PM by Sheltatha »

Emomina

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2010, 10:22:04 PM »
+6 Shield AC without a shield is awesome. Truly opens up a wealth of options when considering how a melee fighter can be built.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2010, 10:57:22 PM »
+6 Shield AC without a shield is awesome. Truly opens up a wealth of options when considering how a melee fighter can be built.

Where are you getting 30 parry ranks from?

Avatar6666

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2010, 10:58:56 PM »
Two things i have noticed when in parry mode as my monk.

1.)  when you are parring and your enemy runs away you do not get an attack of Opportunity.

2.) When parring multiple enemies and one runs away the parry mode drops, If you were parrying that enemy.

Not sure if this is the way you designed it but this is what is happening, i have tested it 4 times so far with the same results. Just wanted to report this not sure if its ment to be this way or not.

No this just happened to me today.




That's NWN parry.  The PotM parry system is a AC bonus.  You can use both, lol.


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No evil shall escape my sight
Let those who worship evil’s might,
Beware my power… Green Lantern’s light!”

Emomina

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2010, 11:06:04 PM »
+6 Shield AC without a shield is awesome. Truly opens up a wealth of options when considering how a melee fighter can be built.

Where are you getting 30 parry ranks from?

Improved Two Weapon Defense, noober
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Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2010, 08:30:27 AM »
One thing I'm considering is to have the improved parry feat somehow play in to this, both to give the feat a purpose, but also to benefit the fighter class, since they those mainly able to pick the feat of the meleers (feat demanding int 13+).

The simple solution would have it give +1 additional shield AC, though that might begin to take it too far. On the other hand, it do make sense that for a skilled swordsman fighting with a second hand weapon for parrying is much more effective than a shield. It's what the historical development turned out to adopt, after all. And it wouldn't be much different than a cleric wearing a tower shield with magic vestment applied.

Thoughts on this?

Blacky Rose

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2010, 09:37:34 AM »
One thing I'm considering is to have the improved parry feat somehow play in to this, both to give the feat a purpose, but also to benefit the fighter class, since they those mainly able to pick the feat of the meleers (feat demanding int 13+).

The simple solution would have it give +1 additional shield AC, though that might begin to take it too far. On the other hand, it do make sense that for a skilled swordsman fighting with a second hand weapon for parrying is much more effective than a shield. It's what the historical development turned out to adopt, after all. And it wouldn't be much different than a cleric wearing a tower shield with magic vestment applied.

Thoughts on this?

As a possible idea, perhaps having the Improved Parry feat could let the character apply the full parry bonus when using two-handed weapons that are not polearms.
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Purist

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2010, 01:01:04 PM »
Think parry could work with small shields. There was once a time that people dueled with sword and buckler.


WildPirate13

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2010, 02:06:53 PM »
Buckler yes.

LoLJohnFerro

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2010, 12:10:34 AM »
I say allow a half bonus for the small shield. Makes sence as it is a buckler for the most part..

Purist

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2010, 03:08:19 AM »
Half-bonus, seriously?

hugolino

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2010, 04:20:59 AM »
I say allow a half bonus for the small shield. Makes sence as it is a buckler for the most part..

I don't think all small shields are necessarily bucklers and if there is any bonus to them it is that you can dual wield while wearing a buckler. Simply adding a half-bonus or any bonus while wearing any small shield makes no sense. However if the game were to add bucklers that give a maximum of 1 AC and allow dual wielding, that sounds fine to me. They could even tie it to the improved parry feat by making that feat necessary to use bucklers.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2010, 06:45:59 AM »
One thing I'm considering is to have the improved parry feat somehow play in to this, both to give the feat a purpose, but also to benefit the fighter class, since they those mainly able to pick the feat of the meleers (feat demanding int 13+).

The simple solution would have it give +1 additional shield AC, though that might begin to take it too far. On the other hand, it do make sense that for a skilled swordsman fighting with a second hand weapon for parrying is much more effective than a shield. It's what the historical development turned out to adopt, after all. And it wouldn't be much different than a cleric wearing a tower shield with magic vestment applied.

Thoughts on this?

As a possible idea, perhaps having the Improved Parry feat could let the character apply the full parry bonus when using two-handed weapons that are not polearms.

I actually did consider something like that too, but then, we would annul the weapon re-balancing aspect we just made.

More thoughts?

Time_Stomped

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2010, 02:32:48 PM »
I think that improved parry suggestion should only apply to the exotic two handers and then your dilemma might be solved.
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kyoung2200

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2010, 05:22:44 PM »
I think improved parry should allow the system to work with dual wield.  Even though it does already, I think that feature should be switched to improved parry.  Just my (most probably unfavorable) opinion ;)
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Minstrel

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2010, 06:52:14 PM »
IMO, adding it with any kind of shield is a bad idea. This change brings folks who choose to fight with weapons like the Halberd or Staff more in-line with AC like Clerics. Allowing Parry to combine with shields would allow it to combine with Magic Vestment, which would further buff the Clerics, something they do not need.

A buff to the fighter-types and dual-wielders is a good thing, and it's happened without nerfing casters. Which works good for me.

Shadowthrone

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2010, 07:16:02 PM »
Not that I agree with making it work with shields, but it wouldn't stack with Magic Vestment. They are the same type of AC and would not stack.

hugolino

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2010, 02:54:27 AM »
The simple solution would have it give +1 additional shield AC, ... Thoughts on this?
I would be okay with this. I tried to wait before commenting so I could actually add some constructive input, but I can't really think of any tweaks, suggestions or tweaks on your proposal for the feat.

EDIT: I wonder though... should Barbarians be able to use parry at all (AC bonus) while raging? I thought they were recklessly aggressive when blood lust took them. Same would apply to the spells like Blood Frenzy that create berserker rage effects.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 02:59:55 AM by hugolino »

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2010, 06:15:10 AM »
I've always thought of fencing and duals when looking at the skill. I personally beleive that the bonuses should be limited to individuals who use a one-handed, single melee weapon; otherwise I don't see the system being able to be balanced. I'd suggest parry be only be avaliable to single-handed, no shield users; the entire skill working in theory like the dodge skill: A  reasonable dodge/shield bonus against an engaged target.

Edit: I'll do some number crunching and compare the systems.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 06:16:44 AM by Rhymenoceros »

Purist

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2010, 06:20:43 AM »
We are talking about small shields (+1 AC). Some people aren't trainned to use two weapons at once, those who are get the feat that grants +1 AC defense. Two weapons means a dedicated fighter can have 6 attacks per round and still profit from the +1 that two weapon fighting grants him, and I read that one can actually receive +2AC if fighting defensively, but I didn't understand that part. Anyway, someone with a one handed weapon and a shield would have 4 attacks per round (normally) and +2 AC from a decent shield. What is so bad about this? Someone with two weapons would still do better than someone with a buckler, I just want it available for not ambidextrious builds.

One can parry using a shield, I believe. The skill descript doesn't say anything about "Must fight without a shield to work", if I remember right.

Telkar

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Re: New parry system
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2010, 08:08:59 AM »
I've always thought of fencing and duals when looking at the skill. I personally beleive that the bonuses should be limited to individuals who use a one-handed, single melee weapon; otherwise I don't see the system being able to be balanced. I'd suggest parry be only be avaliable to single-handed, no shield users; the entire skill working in theory like the dodge skill: A  reasonable dodge/shield bonus against an engaged target.

Edit: I'll do some number crunching and compare the systems.

To just be able to parry with a single weapon in one hand makes little sense to me. One weapon in each hand should be able to be more effective if anything, represented in the two weapon defense feats. People can also deflect incoming attacks with two handed weapons, although harder to do, that's just a fact.

The simple solution would have it give +1 additional shield AC, ... Thoughts on this?
I would be okay with this. I tried to wait before commenting so I could actually add some constructive input, but I can't really think of any tweaks, suggestions or tweaks on your proposal for the feat.

EDIT: I wonder though... should Barbarians be able to use parry at all (AC bonus) while raging? I thought they were recklessly aggressive when blood lust took them. Same would apply to the spells like Blood Frenzy that create berserker rage effects.

Can't think of anything else either. I'm not sure about rage, I mean, if they loose parry bonus, shouldn't they also loose dexterity ac? One could go on counting more types of ac, or just give rage a cold hard ac minus to represent the recklessness.

We are talking about small shields (+1 AC). Some people aren't trainned to use two weapons at once, those who are get the feat that grants +1 AC defense. Two weapons means a dedicated fighter can have 6 attacks per round and still profit from the +1 that two weapon fighting grants him, and I read that one can actually receive +2AC if fighting defensively, but I didn't understand that part. Anyway, someone with a one handed weapon and a shield would have 4 attacks per round (normally) and +2 AC from a decent shield. What is so bad about this? Someone with two weapons would still do better than someone with a buckler, I just want it available for not ambidextrious builds.

One can parry using a shield, I believe. The skill descript doesn't say anything about "Must fight without a shield to work", if I remember right.

One could be able to parry to some extent with a shield in hand, but doesn't that take the focus off the shield usage? Like if some opponent in front of me is swinging a sword at me, I'll have to choose between parrying with my weapon or blocking with my shield. Doing both at a time doesn't seem like it would be any better than just blocking with the shield. That's why parrying and shields wouldn't stack in my opinion.