New parry system

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

This topic is to discuss the new parry system described here:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=16042.0

As it's a rather fundamental change, we anticipate some tweaks having to be made, so this topic is created to help make those.

Generally, though, it will be hard for all of us to predict the exact effect on balance from the start, so I recommend we let it run for a little bit before doomsaying it.

Cheers

[Major Tom]

So wait, if I understand this correctly.. for every five ranks of parry you have, you gain +1 AC without a shield? As in, it's now possible to wield a one-handed weapon without the shield and not worry about suffering the loss of AC?

[Springer]

I dont know  where to post about it.
WIth my fighter I have parry and when I take a weapon it shows in the log:
Parry bonus added +2 and something else I dont remember. It works as intended, but I think it  shouldnt be showed there .

[Kendric98]

So wait, if I understand this correctly.. for every five ranks of parry you have, you gain +1 AC without a shield? As in, it's now possible to wield a one-handed weapon without the shield and not worry about suffering the loss of AC?

Bg deal its ony +4 at lev 20.

[Major Tom]

So wait, if I understand this correctly.. for every five ranks of parry you have, you gain +1 AC without a shield? As in, it's now possible to wield a one-handed weapon without the shield and not worry about suffering the loss of AC?

Bg deal its ony +4 at lev 20.

Well, a regular large shield with +1 AC brings you up to +4 anyways. Although it is pretty lame that your Parry gets reduced if you're wearing heavy armor as well.. kinda works against it.

[Blacky Rose]

So wait, if I understand this correctly.. for every five ranks of parry you have, you gain +1 AC without a shield? As in, it's now possible to wield a one-handed weapon without the shield and not worry about suffering the loss of AC?

Bg deal its ony +4 at lev 20.

Well, a regular large shield with +1 AC brings you up to +4 anyways. Although it is pretty lame that your Parry gets reduced if you're wearing heavy armor as well.. kinda works against it.

A Large shield offers +2 AC, A tower shield offers +3.

Regardless, it is quite a powerful bonus as on level 17 you'll effectively have access to a weightless, no penalty incurring tower shield +1 which also works while dual-wielding.

Regarding heavy armor, it depends how it is implemented. If it works like tumble, then the bonus is applied by actual skill ranks (and thus remains even when the modified skill is much lower), if it works like spellcraft then the bonus is added by modified skill ranks (and would be suspect to armor penalty but could be increased by items that boost parry skill).

[Springer]

Armor penalty doesnt affect AC bonus which parry provides. So my fighter with heavy armor still has +2 bonus from 12 parry even if he is wearing full plate.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Yeah.

As mentioned, it's a significant change to the skill, so it is likely to be tweaked some. One should keep in mind, however, that while it may be as powerful as a +1 tower shield at the highest levels, it is at the cost of a substantial amount of skill points dedicated to that skill - so I feel it sounds about fair.

[kyoung2200]

Not to mention that Magic Vestment will bump your total AC up (over/to) the parry bonus if you have a cleric with you.  Unless I'm remembering wrong. 

[k_moustakas]

can we request relevels to change skill points accordingly?

[Avatar6666]

Really helps out monks, Thanks i like the new parry rules.

[DM Tarokka]

can we request relevels to change skill points accordingly?

When you relog you'll be level 1 and you will manage yourself.

[hugolino]

I'm guessing this is something that will be fixed, but the parry bonus doesn't go away when I switch from a melee weapon to a ranged weapon.

[DM Tarokka]

I think it's something just in the chart because it actually says it in the message. Also because if you rest it goes away also the marking on the chart. Just a guess.

[EDIT] Not sure if the bonus is applied really to monk being unarmed and having the improved unarmed fighting feat (they get it for free 1st level), since as a test with Caterina the bonus appeared when she wields a weapon and disappears at the rest. *Shrugs*

[Metal_ash]

Yeah.

As mentioned, it's a significant change to the skill, so it is likely to be tweaked some. One should keep in mind, however, that while it may be as powerful as a +1 tower shield at the highest levels, it is at the cost of a substantial amount of skill points dedicated to that skill - so I feel it sounds about fair.

This be exactly how i see it to, this is indeed a nice thing in my eyes, now you can chose to actually skip the shield and still have nice AC, Maxed out this will give you m+4 AC but you then need to lay a good amount of skill points on it and you need to be level 17 to max it out, 20 skill points, or the shield feat and you have the same AC, that is a towershield with +1...

Anyways, i like it and it seems like a goodie thing in my eyes.

[KoopaFanatic]

This sounds pretty impressive!  Out of curiosity, how does it interact with the Two-Weapon Defense feats?  Any chance they'll stack?   

[Shadowthrone]

This sounds pretty impressive!  Out of curiosity, how does it interact with the Two-Weapon Defense feats?  Any chance they'll stack?   

They stack

[mayvind]

all my 20 ish chars ..... relevel *spasm*   

[tzaeru]

Does the AC bonus take effect always or only when parrying?

[Telkar]

Does the AC bonus take effect always or only when parrying?

Always. I don't think the "parry mode" has been taken into account at all.

[mayvind]

i notice greater skill focus gone or similar ... feats

[Telkar]

Something looks wrong here:

When I equip a heavy flail (two handed) I get "Applying parry skill and two-weapon defence feat bonuses: +2" and get 2 more ac.

Then when I hold a halberd (two handed) I get "Applying parry skill and two-weapon defence feat bonuses: +4" and get 4 more ac.

So the halberd should be +2 I guess. I put 20 ranks in parry.

Also when I unequip the halberd or flail, I get +4 ac still, although I don't have improved unarmed strike.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Something looks wrong here:

When I equip a heavy flail (two handed) I get "Applying parry skill and two-weapon defence feat bonuses: +2" and get 2 more ac.

Then when I hold a halberd (two handed) I get "Applying parry skill and two-weapon defence feat bonuses: +4" and get 4 more ac.

So the halberd should be +2 I guess. I put 20 ranks in parry.

Also when I unequip the halberd or flail, I get +4 ac still, although I don't have improved unarmed strike.

Halberds, spears and quarterstaffs give the same bonus as if you carried a one handed weapon or one in each hand. This is to reflect that they are effective to parry with, however, at this point, I'm a bit unsure if that feature is to remain, but it does make weapons much less frequently used now a bit more effective.

[Telkar]

Can't argue with that.

It should for one give all those halberd using guards more of a chance too.

[KoopaFanatic]

Halberds, spears and quarterstaffs give the same bonus as if you carried a one handed weapon or one in each hand. This is to reflect that they are effective to parry with, however, at this point, I'm a bit unsure if that feature is to remain, but it does make weapons much less frequently used now a bit more effective.

Ooh, no, please leave that!  I remember suggesting a while back that quarterstaffs should at least get the two-weapon defense bonus, seeing as in standard D&D they're double-weapons