Author Topic: Masque of Red Death classes?  (Read 5025 times)

hugolino

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Masque of Red Death classes?
« on: May 27, 2010, 08:16:20 AM »
Would it be possible to add some of the non-magical/non-gunplay classes found in the Gothic Earth setting (Masque of the Red Death)? Or even something similar? They need not be a true translation of the classes, but it would be nice to have a fitting option for a Gothic Earth character besides rogue and paladin (the others don't really fit so well, including bard and ranger if you really look at it). Something in the spirit of the classes would be fine.

For those unfamiliar with the setting, visit a wiki on it (including the classes) here:
[wiki=]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masque_of_the_Red_Death_(Ravenloft)[/wiki]


I believe the non-magical/non-gunplay classes would be Athlete, Criminal (admittedly a rogue redundancy), Dandy, Detective, and Explorer. I think even just one or two (such as Dandy and Detective) would be fitting additions to the Ravenloft setting, especially the more urban areas or PCs. Adding some more roleplay-non-magical options would be a boon for native characters too.

Just an idea. Please don't burn me at a stake. The Gothic Earth classes are somewhat, or in some cases very, similar to normal classes, but the tweaks are nice, especially for someone who wants to play a more urban/refined character that isn't a rogue, brute or magic-user (whether divine or arcane). They're more skillful and less combat and magic-oriented but just hardy enough to survive anyway.

Again note that i'm not seeking adding the exact same classes as Gothic Earth in all their Victorian era mechanics. Just something akin. More middle options for muggles, so-to-speak.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 08:47:42 AM by hugolino »

hugolino

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 08:18:22 AM »
I also would love to be able to play a non-spellcasting class with an animal companion (only possible currently if you play a WIS 10 or lower Ranger or Druid), and a non-spellcasting healer that is actually viable for gameplay.

Nemien Callishan

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 07:11:58 AM »
You missed Soldier and Labourer. Oh wait, do you mean the 3rd ed version? Never seen that myself. The 2nd ed boxed set's classes were pretty much Cleric, Fighter, Magic User and Thief but by different names.

Mcskinns

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2010, 02:29:46 PM »
I also would love to be able to play a non-spellcasting class with an animal companion (only possible currently if you play a WIS 10 or lower Ranger or Druid), and a non-spellcasting healer that is actually viable for gameplay.

Nothing prevents anyone from playing any spellcasting class and never casting spells aside from summoning their companions/familiars.

It wouldn't require a special class to be added, just some self-control to avoid using unwanted skills/powers.



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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2010, 02:39:54 PM »
The Gothic Earth classes in Masque of the Red Death are to reflect 1890s-era classes. Our rules dictate that Gothic Earth characters must come from 1650 or earlier, where normal D&D classes would be in use. For ideas on Gothic Earth characters from 1650 or earlier, I recommend the various 2nd edition "Historical Reference" sourcebooks such as A Mighty Fortress, Charlemagne's Paladins, Glory of Rome, Vikings, etc. These sourcebooks are considered to be the past of the Gothic Earth setting.

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2010, 02:50:08 PM »
Lol I've the manual "Glory of Rome" somewhere. Might think about some evil-eye witch of that period... *thinks*
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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2010, 03:26:59 PM »
Can't most of the classes can be represented just by your class choices? After all, you don't have to have levels in 'Mercenary' to be a mercenary.

Adept -Wizard

Athlete - Monk or Rogue

Charlatan - Sorcerer

Cowboy - Ranger

Criminal - Rogue

Dandy - Rogue/Bard

Detective - Rogue/Ranger

Diletante - Cleric or Sorcerer

Explorer - Ranger.

The very point of most the base classes is that you can mroe or less fit any character concept with them.

Or am I missing something?

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2010, 05:07:31 PM »
Can't most of the classes can be represented just by your class choices? After all, you don't have to have levels in 'Mercenary' to be a mercenary.

Adept -Wizard

Athlete - Monk or Rogue

Charlatan - Sorcerer

Cowboy - Ranger

Criminal - Rogue

Dandy - Rogue/Bard

Detective - Rogue/Ranger

Diletante - Cleric or Sorcerer

Explorer - Ranger.

The very point of most the base classes is that you can mroe or less fit any character concept with them.

Or am I missing something?
If we allowed characters from the 1890s, then yes that's more or less what you'd do. Since we only allow characters from 1650 and earlier, it's not necessary to even do that much. Characters from pre-1650 would have the straight standard D&D classes, not those 1890-era variant names.

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2010, 08:58:01 PM »
On the server right now, I can think of 3/4 detectives I know of the top of my head , about the same number of dandies & diletantes, not to mention more criminals than you can shake a stick at .

What ranger isent an explorer?

The fact being that most great explorations came from the 17th century as did the most important age of scientific discovery (the classification of base chemicals , leading to the periodic table later)

Quote

Age of Discovery, also known as the Age of Exploration, was a period in history starting in the 15th century and continuing into the early 17th century during which Europeans engaged in intensive exploration of the world, establishing direct contacts with Africa, the Americas, Asia and Oceania and mapping the planet. Historians often refer to the 'Age of Discovery' as the pioneer Portuguese and Spanish long-distance maritime travels in search of alternative trade routes to "the Indies", moved by the trade of gold, silver and spices.
Issac Newton , Born 1643 ,..I rest my case

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2010, 09:51:48 PM »
On the server right now, I can think of 3/4 detectives I know of the top of my head , about the same number of dandies & diletantes, not to mention more criminals than you can shake a stick at .

What ranger isent an explorer?

The fact being that most great explorations came from the 17th century as did the most important age of scientific discovery (the classification of base chemicals , leading to the periodic table later)

Quote

Age of Discovery, also known as the Age of Exploration, was a period in history starting in the 15th century and continuing into the early 17th century during which Europeans engaged in intensive exploration of the world, establishing direct contacts with Africa, the Americas, Asia and Oceania and mapping the planet. Historians often refer to the 'Age of Discovery' as the pioneer Portuguese and Spanish long-distance maritime travels in search of alternative trade routes to "the Indies", moved by the trade of gold, silver and spices.
Issac Newton , Born 1643 ,..I rest my case
yes, and? you're suggesting he wrote his defining work on modern physics when he was 7? :P

Plus, that doesn't work for the athlete anyway! ;)

But what Minstrel suggested isn't totally without merit, but I think instead of using the 1890s classes it would be better to base it on some of the kits from the HR books. For instance, A Mighty Fortress, the book that covers 1550-1650, has the following suggestions for classes:

Warrior (fighter, ranger, barbarian, paladin): Gentleman Adventurer, Forester, Clansman, Sea Dog

Scoundrel (rogue, bard): Vagabond, Picaro, Courtier

Priest (cleric, druid, monk): Preacher, Protector of the Faith

Magic-User (wizard, sorceror): Scholarly Mage

As you can see, they reflect more on the Elizabethan era than the MotRD's Victorian era classes.

If you guys want, I can write up some stuff about Historical Reference class adaptations. It'd be a bit of work since 2nd edition kits don't translate easily into 3.X edition rules, so it'd be more of the general gist of how a character such as a cleric or wizard from pre-Victorian era Gothic Earth might behave.

Adding actual new classes to NWN is unlikely to happen, however. They're difficult to implement on a PW, mainly due to the way the engine works you'd be unable to create a new character with those custom classes because the haks containing the custom class info won't load until after you've made a new character and entered the server. The only way around this is to make a character with a 3rd party program and email it to the server admin, but this is not ideal because someone can also use another program to hack their character to have 50 in all ability scores etc. and it'd be hard to catch until it's already added.

The only other option you'd have is that you'd have to multiclass to take the new classes, since you couldn't start out as one and we're not comfortable taking locally-created characters. You'd have to follow the multiclass rules, so you'd never be able to take full advantage of all the new classes have to offer.

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herkles

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2010, 09:54:24 PM »
Bluebomber, would that write up also help with playing characters from some domians such as Dementlieu? as they are very much a renaissance inspired domian, well more of the Baroque era IMO.


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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2010, 12:22:26 AM »
I suppose it could. This list, should I make it, would also include stuff from earlier periods of history such as ancient Rome, the Crusades, etc.

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hugolino

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2010, 04:55:06 AM »
Can't most of the classes can be represented just by your class choices? After all, you don't have to have levels in 'Mercenary' to be a mercenary... Or am I missing something?

Ah, then can I play, for example, a  druid or ranger who is not a druid/ranger but simply a man with a devoted dog, not neutral, not a protector or lover of nature, and never casts spells? Or a chaotic drunken kung fu fighter who is always in trouble with the law? Or a Dragonlance mystic (whose divine spells come from no god; mystics emerged in an era when Krynn's gods were absent) played as a godless cleric? And how would I ever play a psionicist? (I'm currently attempting to play a wild talent Athasian psionicist as a non-monk "monk," but is that just cheesing or doing what Minstrel suggested above?)

My point is that not all options mesh very well with the mechanics and rules of NWN and PotM.  

I've gimped my PotM characters repeatedly in the name of roleplay (more particularly, to be faithful to my character concept, including creed) and found my options for roleplay much reduced. Perhaps this is because a gimped character thrives or fails primarily on its roleplay appeal to others -- as there are fewer other redeeming characteristics. And maybe I'm not a good roleplayer. Or my roleplay doesn't fit well with that of others. Or maybe I like to adventure too much and am frustrated by a character that is not very survivable (a difficulty only enhanced by the fact I'm not a good gamer -- slow reflexes, not aggressive, poor at strategy, etc.). Or perhaps some other factor I'm not self-conscious of yet.

Ultimately it has been my past frustration that has spawned this thread. Most of the characters I would like to roleplay don't seem very playable to me on PotM. Even if theoretically it should be quite doable, I often give up in frustration because it is very difficult to go against the grain of the mechanics and/or setting (and I have a strong tendency to do that).

DISCLAIMER: I currently am quite happy with my latest attempt at a different kind of character (the wild talent, untrained psionicist "monk" I mentioned above -- and don't worry, he'll never claim IC to be a psionicist or monk), but have been absent much from the game lately due to distractions and stresses   :evil:  from real life.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 05:19:47 AM by hugolino »

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2010, 12:19:19 PM »
Well a psionicist can't be a wild talent; the term "wild talent" refers to characters of classes other than psionicist who have some random psionic power. :P

If you want to say your monk gets his monk abilities from psionics instead of ki, it may be alright provided that you don't give him anything beyond his normal monk abilities and you do some of the basic things monks are expected to do (i.e. train and meditate, which psionicists do anyway).

Anyway, I'll try to compile a list of Historical Reference kit adaptations for 3e characters; this would basically amount to recommended backgrounds, feats, skills, and roleplay concepts.

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2010, 08:05:25 PM »
Can't most of the classes can be represented just by your class choices? After all, you don't have to have levels in 'Mercenary' to be a mercenary... Or am I missing something?

Ah, then can I play, for example, a  druid or ranger who is not a druid/ranger but simply a man with a devoted dog, not neutral, not a protector or lover of nature, and never casts spells? Or a chaotic drunken kung fu fighter who is always in trouble with the law?

The first option really pushes the limit of what I suggested.

The second one... Well, such a character already exists, though technically an unarmed-specialised Fighter would be better for that (and no, they're not THAT crippled if you try hard enough)

But to answer that question with as little ado as possible.

Yes, within reason.

hugolino

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Re: Masque of Red Death classes?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2010, 10:08:46 PM »
Well a psionicist can't be a wild talent; the term "wild talent" refers to characters of classes other than psionicist who have some random psionic power. :P

If you want to say your monk gets his monk abilities from psionics instead of ki, it may be alright provided that you don't give him anything beyond his normal monk abilities and you do some of the basic things monks are expected to do (i.e. train and meditate, which psionicists do anyway).

Thank you. That's what I had in mind and I was inwardly cringing hoping it wouldn't be forbidden.