Vampire Spawn Gaseous Form

[Ravenous]

Always remember that your characters rep may be an issue, fierce monster hunters tend to get harsher treatment especially if I as an MPC player dont know the guy behind the hunter. Predators has a tendency to want to control the situation, including animals. And intelligent predators like vampires especially so. Mist Form is a tactical ability as well as a great RP tool, to "demand" that it is used as anything less than what it is is sad, quite frankly its like saying a cleric shouldnt use Turn Undead(even if that has limited uses), or spells, or that Knockdown/Disarm should have limited uses(and everyone has those two).

Considering that anyone with anything requiring an app has gone through the process and been judged to be able to handle it, and in the case of MPCs paid for it with hardearned levels(in the case of vamps 5 levels lost) and a slower paced leveling as they count as five levels higher meaning that at least in theory(the xp system is a mystery) they need 5k more xp to gain a level than a straight non-special race. I say, let MPCs use their granted abilities as they see fit as long as they dont abuse bugs in the system.
After all its intelligent characters using their abilities to maximum effect(same goes for HiPS), most people play to their strengths, most animals to. And there aint a single ability granted that can not be countered, some are just easier to counter than others.

Trust in the DM team and the councillors, they know what they do when they grant people PrCs and Monster Templates, or dont grant them.

[Purist]

Abilities like Knockdown, Disarm and Called Shot can be spammed, that was been said. But those involve DCs to actually occur. I never faced a VS in combat but if it is true what Antonus is saying, Vampires constantly swapping from mist form to their "normal" form just to cast spells and then back to the advantage of the mist form to just bash...and there is no DC to spam mist form or so I guess. That is wrong IMO, am talking about mist form spam not DC for it. Should scratch this out since I read a post saying VS can't attack in mist form. But I asked a VS once he told me that his max possible level was 18, can someone confirm this?

On a side note, I still think Knockdown and Disarm should not be free feats. PotM already grants more feats/level than default, if someone want those feats they should pick them. This IMO is a matter of balance, nothing against any classes, but some benefit of it as a free feat, like the Arcane Casters and their +20 to hit spell. 9 seconds is more than enough to disarm or knock somebody down.

[Lockleed]

The other thing I see that is insane from an RP pov, you faced 2 powerful Vamp spawns alone and didn't run for your life? Where's the horror in that?

If you meant the Covin vs. Stravokov and Drachenfels thing, most of the horror was probably in the collateral damage to bystanders.  Both vampires had been preying on people in the outskirts.  I remember two lower level PCs were killed by a Circle of Death spell at one point.  I also seem to remember most of Corvin's comments during that fight being along the lines of : "GET INSIDE THE CHURCH, PEOPLE!"

I wasn't the victim... that time.  But I seem to remember Sadek pouncing me from behind one night and eviscerating, disemboling, and partially devouring Corvin, much earlier in his career.  Scared the beejeezus out of him once his pieces got ressurected.  So, there's a little horror for you.

And the mist form kind of does have a DC.  With see invisibility, and significant enough spot / listen; you can keep a bead right on them, like with HiPS except invisible too.  Damaging a vampire spawn in mist form, pretty sure you can't, although I've hardly had any oppurtunity to really figure that out.

[Antonus Taran]

And the mist form kind of does have a DC.  With see invisibility, and significant enough spot / listen; you can keep a bead right on them, like with HiPS except invisible too.  Damaging a vampire spawn in mist form, pretty sure you can't, although I've hardly had any oppurtunity to really figure that out.

You can damage vampire spawn in normal mist form, - when they die in normal mist form, as with any other form, they revert to 'death' mist form (equipment is not dropped, wouldn't make sense if they did since they are just transforming), which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight. This is so that they can return to their coffin and reform without risking early closure, a luxury other MPCs don't have, one of the perks of the VS template.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

[Antonus Taran]

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Assuming you mean these two:

Sunburst:

Sunburst causes a globe of searing radiance to explode silently from a point you select. All creatures in the globe are blinded and take 6d6 points of damage. A creature to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural takes double damage. A successful Reflex save negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half.

An undead creature caught within the globe takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 25d6), or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fail its save.

Sunbeam:

For the duration of this spell, you can use a standard action to evoke a dazzling beam of intense light each round. You can call forth one beam per three caster levels (maximum six beams at 18th level). The spell ends when its duration runs out or your allotment of beams is exhausted.

Each creature in the beam is blinded and takes 4d6 points of damage. Any creatures to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural take double damage. A successful Reflex save negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half.

An undead creature caught within the beam takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6), or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the beam results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light if it fails its save.

I doubt it, and I would really disagree if that were indeed the case - that would be REALLY harsh on the vampire spawn template... not really fair in my opinion. Despite the canon 3.5 description, it just wouldn't be fair, the spamming of one spell shouldn't closure an MPC.

[DM Nocturne]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

i take some offense to that, if by the books it could be done i think it should be allowed if were going to go as best by the book we can here besides 'by the book' vamp spawn's can mist at will  so if on the flip side a high level spell able to be gotten not till level 7/8 spells are cast can destroy a misted vamp then and they fail a save or whatever then i reason it should be done in the sake of fairness...thats me though if your going to have one side of things for monsters to enact fear the same should be given for those that hunt or fight them

[DM Nocturne]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

i take some offense to that, if by the books it could be done i think it should be allowed if were going to go as best by the book we can here besides 'by the book' vamp spawn's can mist at will  so if on the flip side a high level spell able to be gotten not till level 7/8 spells are cast can destroy a misted vamp then and they fail a save or whatever then i reason it should be done in the sake of fairness...thats me though if your going to have one side of things for monsters to enact fear the same should be given for those that hunt or fight them

You speak of fairness but the act of ending someone's character for your own brief amusement is anything but fair. If this was the case you would have zero Vampire Spawn players and would create great animosity to whoever that ended them.

And if you want to go by the books then I doubt any of them talk about respawning; next time I burn a corpse that character isn't coming back.

[Minstrel]

Just so I know... Is it possible to follow the gaseous form? To locate the coffin?

[LoupGaroux]

As far as I understood it, when I had my vampire spawn. If you could be seen in gaseous form, you could be followed.

At least, that's how it happened to Annika once when she took a victim and was followed by an ezrite

But perhaps the ruling changed on that. Who knows?

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

i take some offense to that, if by the books it could be done i think it should be allowed if were going to go as best by the book we can here besides 'by the book' vamp spawn's can mist at will   so if on the flip side a high level spell able to be gotten not till level 7/8 spells are cast can destroy a misted vamp then and they fail a save or whatever then i reason it should be done in the sake of fairness...thats me though if your going to have one side of things for monsters to enact fear the same should be given for those that hunt or fight them

You speak of fairness but the act of ending someone's character for your own brief amusement is anything but fair. If this was the case you would have zero Vampire Spawn players and would create great animosity to whoever that ended them.

And if you want to go by the books then I doubt any of them talk about respawning; next time I burn a corpse that character isn't coming back.

I want it clear here i'm not attacking or pinpointing anyone here monster or otherwise, nor am i trying to get a 'leg up' on monster pcs either in the case of hope, as i am well aware of her abilities to attack such creatures. i am mearly voicing in my feelings a unbalance factor when it comes to certain scripts, templates, or rules their my own opinions and feelings.

Also on the point of ending someones story...if the vamp/ghoul/wight/whatever is destroyed in a manner that means its end it should be accepted

i do speak of fairness if one side has an ability that grants hips, higher hide/ms, invis that requires true seeing and a high spot to pin down there should be a balance...

how bout a suggestion then...if a misted vamp is nailed by say a sunlight it gives a rp message that to 'regen' will take longer.

and on the point of burnt pcs mortal wise if for example someone warns me ahead of time that there say hunting in this example hope, and intends to perma her i'll accept it! long as it is an enjoyable ending for BOTH sides.

in the case now of hope say hunting joe shome vamp spawn as a morninglordian she aint going to dally about talking or other means, if she knows its a vamp, knows already its strength and weaknesses she's going for broke, if she is not sure of its strength and weaknesses she'll be more cautious, if the vamp wins i accept if they feel they should perma burn her. the flip side is not always said for for a variety of reasons which is more for a pm talk then public.

monster pc or otherwise it has to be seen that ravenloft is a dark place, evil or otherwise people can have their lives ended tragically or abruptly! using the often quoted line of 'true heroes' or 'evil overwhelms' or what have you is no excuse in my feelings that if in my example hope nails that joe shome vamp down to mist and either on her own or with a group tracks it to its coffin and stakes it the story ends.

In the end I merely was making a suggestion and curiosity to something that MAY be in the books, i'm presently looking myself atm, and if it can be done it should be done i think...

but again in the end these are all MY opinions and feelings, not an attack accusation or otherwise to anyone nor to the server population

[The Howling Stars]

and in the case of MPCs paid for it with hardearned levels(in the case of vamps 5 levels lost)

Actually, back in the day it was 10 levels...
Alex jumped from 18th to 8th for this template. But the story was worth it.

Sorry about the thread hijack.... Continue.

[kvanio]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

My character is going vampire and I only expect to live 3 months.. the fact that youv had a vampire for that long is Really lucky..

And I'm okay with living for 3 months seeing as how.. I applied for Vampire Spawn.. being aware. As you know vampires are cursed and gifted, their curse is their life expectancy.. because of being hunted constantly.


Ancient Vampires such as Strahd are very rare.

[Dhark]

I dont know why people get so paranoid about thier vamps "oh eveyone is out to kill me" ..erm well of course they are! Your a vampire!

Players have to act smart , or the old night gobbles them up, monster PCs should be the same , dont face off powerfull clerics with very high level spells.

Anyway , I was under the assumtion that mist form gave something like +30 hide/ms , its not like every char on the server , even with true seeing potions can follow you. (correct me if I'm wrong) Currently the usage of mist from is from my perspective allright, it alows the MPC to control the situation & hopefull provide the scares without being too much on the defensive.

Now the last suggestion of allowing sunlight spells to seriously harm undead PCs is, I think a good one. extended stays in coffins to plot revenge, brood darkly et al can only be a good thing for the MPCs developement.

And I'll say this yet again , Id like to see the ECLs droped from monster PCs, they have to apply and thier gift to the server is horror, something we all need oodles of.

Reminder: this is my OPINION

[Shadowthrone]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

This is far from the mentality an MPC should have.

[Lockleed]

Good spot builds with a see invis effect can catch vampires in mist form, and follow them.  

And I'm with Tarinyar about the ECL.  In the past we had enough monsters to effectivelly scare folk enough to stay inside at night.  Now we've got a somewhat more limited monstrous PC crew, and a chunk of that is due to ECL being what it is.  Not a lot of new monsters are coming about, simply because they'll take such a hit in levels, they'll be ineffective as monsters.  Frankly most of the MPC abilities don't make up for the lack in survivability.  Don't believe me?  Then ask where all the lycanthropes are these days.  I think we've got at most 3, and you rarely ever see them.

I've been theming one of my PCs to become a ghoul for awhile now.  I recently asked advice of esablished ghoul and undead players, and everyone gave me about the same advice : Wait until you are higher level for survivability.

This is off topic from the point of this thread, though, and I can sense that somewhere Delphinidae is glaring daggers at me.

[Telkar]

Good spot builds with a see invis effect can catch vampires in mist form, and follow them. 

And I'm with Tarinyar about the ECL.  In the past we had enough monsters to effectivelly scare folk enough to stay inside at night.  Now we've got a somewhat more limited monstrous PC crew, and a chunk of that is due to ECL being what it is.  Not a lot of new monsters are coming about, simply because they'll take such a hit in levels, they'll be ineffective as monsters.  Frankly most of the MPC abilities don't make up for the lack in survivability.  Don't believe me?  Then ask where all the lycanthropes are these days.  I think we've got at most 3, and you rarely ever see them.

I've been theming one of my PCs to become a ghoul for awhile now.  I recently asked advice of esablished ghoul and undead players, and everyone gave me about the same advice : Wait until you are higher level for survivability.

This is off topic from the point of this thread, though, and I can sense that somewhere Delphinidae is glaring daggers at me.

Hm...someone should make a thread about that. Interesting topic.

And hm...I was under the impression gaseous form was +50 hide and move silently, just like when you're in ghost form, and gives HiPS of course. Either way, I don't really find limiting the ability a pressing matter, and I trust the MPCs not to misuse it, but if misuse becomes frequent and the council tires of dealing with the complaints, then I hold to my aforementioned suggestion.

[marlewebber]

Sunlight Spells in particular among Positive Energy spells are weaker in Ravenloft.  That whole "Destroyed instantly" just kills a vampire down to mist, not forever.  Now if you zap an already "Misted" vampire or manage to eliminate its coffin before hand?  Bravo.  You win.

So in a sense, both Mist and Sunlight spells are working as they should according to the Ravenloft ruleset.(no extra work needed to make the sunlight spells more powerful than vanilla NWN)  And the work has already been done to make sure that PCs who invested could destroy vampires, with all the difficulty Van Richten himself had and more.

[DM Nocturne]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

This is far from the mentality an MPC should have.

Mentality has got nothing to do with it. Paranoid? Yes, that's fine, part of how the character will behave. Already happens. However it's already been decided that closure to an MPC should happen through an appropriate ending that leaves players feeling good about the end of it. Not because another player decided so with one spell.

Yes, it is possible to be seen as Mist Form. I know of three characters in particular that can see cloaked mist (one of which likes to be a 'voyeur' - you know who you are!). Thats because their characters likely focused in it. If your character didn't focus in it, then why expect to see one?

Most of you speak of how an MPC should be but don't have MPCs yourself (or play them actively). I invite you to apply for one.

[Purist]

I believe nobody answered my question yet, the maximum level an ECL 5 character can reach is 18? Because I asked one MPC once and he told me so. He said that his maximum level was his ECL/2 and that it is rounded down. Which is: instead of a 2.5 level cap he'd get just 2. Meaning max level of 18. But since he is ECL 5, does it mean that his character would be something like Level 23? Virtually epic. I know the topic isn't about this subject but both involve monsters. Somebody correct me?

[marlewebber]

I believe nobody answered my question yet, the maximum level an ECL 5 character can reach is 18? Because I asked one MPC once and he told me so. He said that his maximum level was his ECL/2 and that it is rounded down. Which is: instead of a 2.5 level cap he'd get just 2. Meaning max level of 18. But since he is ECL 5, does it mean that his character would be something like Level 23? Virtually epic. I know the topic isn't about this subject but both involve monsters. Somebody correct me?

You are right on the money, and yes, a maximum level player monster is above 20 ECL in every case, though bear in mind, even if you were level 20 when you deleveled and took the template, it'd still be a while before you got all that bloody advancement with the amount of experience required at that level.  ...epic run on sentence, epic amount of time necessary, to get epic monster.

[kvanio]

which is where they cannot be damaged by anything except by the Sunlight.

on that point here's my question if a 'destroyed' misted vamp is then nailed with a sunlight spell shouldnt that nail'em in? assuming say they failed the DC?

Already paranoid enough, don't need to allow one stupid cleric to cast a spell and make a player lose 1-2+ years worth of character development.

This is far from the mentality an MPC should have.

Mentality has got nothing to do with it. Paranoid? Yes, that's fine, part of how the character will behave. Already happens. However it's already been decided that closure to an MPC should happen through an appropriate ending that leaves players feeling good about the end of it. Not because another player decided so with one spell.

Yes, it is possible to be seen as Mist Form. I know of three characters in particular that can see cloaked mist (one of which likes to be a 'voyeur' - you know who you are!). Thats because their characters likely focused in it. If your character didn't focus in it, then why expect to see one?

Most of you speak of how an MPC should be but don't have MPCs yourself (or play them actively). I invite you to apply for one.

It comes a time... after one year of being a MPC Vampire Spawn that you're expected to die.. and you wouldn't just get hit by sunray and poof be dead. You would be RPed being killed later on... So it would always be a good ending.. It has nothing to do with HOW it's WHEN.. and When is 3 months at most in my opinion.

the how is the RP that WILL for sure come.. so don't worry about that.

[Pepchko]

Mentality has got nothing to do with it. Paranoid? Yes, that's fine, part of how the character will behave. Already happens. However it's already been decided that closure to an MPC should happen through an appropriate ending that leaves players feeling good about the end of it. Not because another player decided so with one spell.

that is false AcidZealot. i can name 2 vampires that lost their characters due to someone smashing their coffins while they were offline. pretty lame ending if you ask me

according to the staff its fair game. 

[DM Nocturne]

Mentality has got nothing to do with it. Paranoid? Yes, that's fine, part of how the character will behave. Already happens. However it's already been decided that closure to an MPC should happen through an appropriate ending that leaves players feeling good about the end of it. Not because another player decided so with one spell.

that is false AcidZealot. i can name 2 vampires that lost their characters due to someone smashing their coffins while they were offline. pretty lame ending if you ask me

according to the staff its fair game.  

Agree with you and I knew about this. I was careful to put in the above, as highlighted by yellow. 'Should' being my opinion after all, not fact.

* I can understand the appeal of going after monsters. It can be exciting, dangerous or whatnot. But sometimes those people lose grasp of the point as I see it. An MPC and its encounters are there to create horror and enjoyment.
You're not meant to try and 'win' (#) against them, you're meant to have a scene. Ask Illy-Dan about memorable PC -vs- MPC scenes.
* In that scene, you may triumph and cause it to flee, you may destroy it for a time, or something in between. You may fail, it may make you flee, or kill you for antagonising it until your rescue, or anything in between, however the roleplay goes along or whatever happens.
* The point was that everyone respects the encounter and enjoys it. # = The point isn't to kick their other character in the back, so to speak.

Disagree if you like, you're entitled of course. If you roleplay with myself, you can expect the above, and I will expect the same in return. If you don't like it, please, by all means, send me a tell or PM saying you'd like to opt out. You won't hurt my feelings (I'll get over it   )