Author Topic: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos  (Read 9533 times)

Afromullet

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Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« on: January 03, 2010, 08:54:44 PM »
I have done several forum searches but have found no answer.

While I understand that Lovecraftian horror and the horrors of Ravenloft are a tad bit different, I am still curious in regards to the Cthulhu Mythos Pantheon I have seen on the site.

Where would a character who has heard of the Cthulhu Mythos Pantheon come from?

I have read this part regarding backgrounds.

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The mists of Ravenloft can reach into any world. You may choose any established D&D® origin for your player, including the Forgotten Realms®, Greyhawk®, Eberron®, and Dragonlance® campaign settings to name a few. Be true to their original setting in terms of names, appearance, and religious beliefs (i.e. domains and practices matching their god). You may also choose to make a character native to Ravenloft. Search our "About the World" section for information that a native character might have.

Would the world described in the d20 Call of Cthulhu book count as an established D&D setting? Would it be early Lovecraftian England?

Or is it generally not well liked for a person to play a character from such a setting?

HellsPanda

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 09:26:33 PM »
they would come from Gothic Earth, we have already had a few cultists, lead by the one called Madpriest....

its basically europe, there are guidelines for what time periods are allowed, but I dont quite remember at the moment

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 09:38:08 PM »
Pre 1650

Dashru

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2010, 09:40:34 PM »
I play an ex-Nyarlathotepian priest from a custom Lovecratian based Earth set pre-1650.   Basically, Nyarlathotep in this setting releases the other gods from their binds and are once more free to walk the earth. However, Gallaio was sucked in by the mists.
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DM Macabre

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 01:11:23 AM »
What they said.

Where would a character who has heard of the Cthulhu Mythos Pantheon come from?
Most likely he would come from the Ravenloft Gothic Earth setting - which is in many aspects similar to our normal earth, just that there is an entity called Red Death on Gothic Earth. This entity is roughly similar to the Dark Powers of normal Ravenloft, while being more like an entity on its own, entered into Gothic Earth through a ritual by the priest Imhotep in 2700 BC. Cthulhu and the other Lovecraft gods would be changed by the Red Death there. What of course no follower of Cthulhu would ever know or believe to be true. This will fit the transformation of Cthulhu-related magic to D&D magic.

The horror setting of Cthulhu and Ravenloft are quite different in their atmosphere. While Cthulhu's horror lies in the senselessnesss of a world that is just a playground of dark gods, Ravenloft has a clear distinction between evil vs. good - black and white.


Would the world described in the d20 Call of Cthulhu book count as an established D&D setting?
I don't think it would be called a D&D setting, but the world described there could be the one you use as a background regarding the Cthulhu mythos stuff.


Would it be early Lovecraftian England?
It would be Gothic Earth England in the time before or up to 1650. Regarding Cthulhu you can of course use Lovecraft's descriptions.


Or is it generally not well liked for a person to play a character from such a setting?
No problem at all to play a character from there.

Afromullet

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 01:14:15 AM »
That cleared up numerous things for me. Thanks for all the help!

jugnaut

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2010, 10:55:31 AM »
What they said.


The horror setting of Cthulhu and Ravenloft are quite different in their atmosphere. While Cthulhu's horror lies in the senselessnesss of a world that is just a playground of dark gods, Ravenloft has a clear distinction between evil vs. good - black and white.



The Dark Powers seem to fit the Cthulu mythos.  The rest of the setting fits more with Lovecraft's other works.   They even scte several of his short stories as examples of ravenloft type horror like "rats in the walls."  

« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 10:57:05 AM by jugnaut »


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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2010, 02:16:00 PM »
What they said.


The horror setting of Cthulhu and Ravenloft are quite different in their atmosphere. While Cthulhu's horror lies in the senselessnesss of a world that is just a playground of dark gods, Ravenloft has a clear distinction between evil vs. good - black and white.



The Dark Powers seem to fit the Cthulu mythos.  The rest of the setting fits more with Lovecraft's other works.   They even scte several of his short stories as examples of ravenloft type horror like "rats in the walls." 


Er, no. The Dark Powers, for whatever reason (read: up to the DM), are interested in morality--the entirety of Ravenloft as a setting revolves around morality, the seduction of evil, the horror of man's inhumanity to man, the nature of sin, etc. The Cthulhu Mythos' horror comes from the idea that human morality is meaningless, that the universe is amoral and the beings that run the universe are either hostile or indifferent to humanity. This is almost the complete opposite of what Ravenloft is about. The only part of the setting that fits the Cthulhu Mythos type of horror is Bluetspur, and that's an exception that proves the rule. Some of Lovecraft's works are good inspiration for Ravenloft, but it's usually non-Mythos material such as "The Rats in the Walls" and "Pickman's Model"--works that don't include the Cthulhu Mythos "deities."

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jugnaut

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2010, 06:38:24 PM »
What they said.


The horror setting of Cthulhu and Ravenloft are quite different in their atmosphere. While Cthulhu's horror lies in the senselessnesss of a world that is just a playground of dark gods, Ravenloft has a clear distinction between evil vs. good - black and white.



The Dark Powers seem to fit the Cthulu mythos.  The rest of the setting fits more with Lovecraft's other works.   They even scte several of his short stories as examples of ravenloft type horror like "rats in the walls." 


Er, no. The Dark Powers, for whatever reason (read: up to the DM), are interested in morality--the entirety of Ravenloft as a setting revolves around morality, the seduction of evil, the horror of man's inhumanity to man, the nature of sin, etc. The Cthulhu Mythos' horror comes from the idea that human morality is meaningless, that the universe is amoral and the beings that run the universe are either hostile or indifferent to humanity. This is almost the complete opposite of what Ravenloft is about. The only part of the setting that fits the Cthulhu Mythos type of horror is Bluetspur, and that's an exception that proves the rule. Some of Lovecraft's works are good inspiration for Ravenloft, but it's usually non-Mythos material such as "The Rats in the Walls" and "Pickman's Model"--works that don't include the Cthulhu Mythos "deities."

I've always thought that the Dark Powers were "hostile or indifferent to humanity."  The Dark Powers are basically alien in their purpose to the people of ravenloft.  They do what they do for some unknown purpose.  Whether it is to test morality or simply to entertain themselves is not answered.  I would say their not interested in morality so much as depravity.  The only focus on the one side of good/evil: evil.  Good isn't really rewarded, it's just twisted into new evil.  Essentially, everyone in Ravenloft is doomed to the whims of dark unknowable powers.  That's why I draw the comparsion between them and the Cthulu mythos.  In the gazetteers, players' guide, and novels, that's how they're always portrayed.


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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 12:09:11 AM »
What they said.


The horror setting of Cthulhu and Ravenloft are quite different in their atmosphere. While Cthulhu's horror lies in the senselessnesss of a world that is just a playground of dark gods, Ravenloft has a clear distinction between evil vs. good - black and white.



The Dark Powers seem to fit the Cthulu mythos.  The rest of the setting fits more with Lovecraft's other works.   They even scte several of his short stories as examples of ravenloft type horror like "rats in the walls." 


Er, no. The Dark Powers, for whatever reason (read: up to the DM), are interested in morality--the entirety of Ravenloft as a setting revolves around morality, the seduction of evil, the horror of man's inhumanity to man, the nature of sin, etc. The Cthulhu Mythos' horror comes from the idea that human morality is meaningless, that the universe is amoral and the beings that run the universe are either hostile or indifferent to humanity. This is almost the complete opposite of what Ravenloft is about. The only part of the setting that fits the Cthulhu Mythos type of horror is Bluetspur, and that's an exception that proves the rule. Some of Lovecraft's works are good inspiration for Ravenloft, but it's usually non-Mythos material such as "The Rats in the Walls" and "Pickman's Model"--works that don't include the Cthulhu Mythos "deities."

I've always thought that the Dark Powers were "hostile or indifferent to humanity."  The Dark Powers are basically alien in their purpose to the people of ravenloft.  They do what they do for some unknown purpose.  Whether it is to test morality or simply to entertain themselves is not answered.  I would say their not interested in morality so much as depravity.  The only focus on the one side of good/evil: evil.  Good isn't really rewarded, it's just twisted into new evil.  Essentially, everyone in Ravenloft is doomed to the whims of dark unknowable powers.  That's why I draw the comparsion between them and the Cthulu mythos.  In the gazetteers, players' guide, and novels, that's how they're always portrayed.
Incorrect, the Dark Powers are never portrayed except for in one novel, Lord of the Necropolis. This novel was quickly rendered non-canon by the staff at TSR because of this. The is no true definition of what the Dark Powers are, but to say they are "hostile and indifferent to humanity" is a stretch. If they were truly like the Cthulhu Mythos, they would not bother cursing the darklords, tempting them with their innermost desires only to dash them whenever it was within reach. To do such a thing requires a level of understanding of human nature that the shuddering alien monstrosities of the Mythos cannot and will not ever have (save, perhaps, Nyarlathotep).
To say that good is never rewarded and that everyone is doomed is also false and not supported by the works. Rudolph van Richten found redemption for his curse, the Carnival rescues lots of poor lost souls that would otherwise be destroyed, and in a PnP game the player characters can be rewarded with escape from the demiplane (as in the end of Roots of Evil), and so on. To sure, there is more darkness than light in Ravenloft, but those lights burn brighter and longer than any of the inexorably insane investigators of a Call of Cthulhu game.

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 02:55:36 AM »
Imo the Dark Powers are also more or less portrayed in the novel I, Strahd.
Spoiler: show
If you take the pact with death as a pact with the dark powers.


There it is VERY clear, that whatever they are, they are some source of sinister justice. They clearly categorize in black and white, bad and good.

mayvind

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2010, 03:21:02 AM »
Imo the Dark Powers are also more or less portrayed in the novel I, Strahd.
Spoiler: show
If you take the pact with death as a pact with the dark powers.


There it is VERY clear, that whatever they are, they are some source of sinister justice. They clearly categorize in black and white, bad and good.

I though it was demon/devil (yogoloth or something handmaiden of Loth) from the abyss/ninehell that gave Strahd his immortality not Darkpower. Of course i dont remember where i read that

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2010, 01:54:56 PM »
Imo the Dark Powers are also more or less portrayed in the novel I, Strahd.
Spoiler: show
If you take the pact with death as a pact with the dark powers.


There it is VERY clear, that whatever they are, they are some source of sinister justice. They clearly categorize in black and white, bad and good.

I though it was demon/devil (yogoloth or something handmaiden of Loth) from the abyss/ninehell that gave Strahd his immortality not Darkpower. Of course i dont remember where i read that
You're thinking of Inajira, which was a different curse than the one Macabre is referring to. ;)

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2010, 12:25:34 PM »
And in any case, demons wouldn't have access to Ravenloft anyway.

Right? O_o

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2010, 12:36:48 PM »
Access: yes. Exit: no.

LadyDragn

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2010, 12:42:18 PM »
Yup, like everything else. Once you enter Ravenloft, you can never leave :D

So all those elementals and imps and demons summoned, are stuck here. :)

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 02:03:26 AM »
Yup, like everything else. Once you enter Ravenloft, you can never leave :D

So all those elementals and imps and demons summoned, are stuck here. :)
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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »
Yup, like everything else. Once you enter Ravenloft, you can never leave :D

So all those elementals and imps and demons summoned, are stuck here. :)

That would make a great dm event. Every single creature ever summoned by a player forms an army and begins to sttack.

LoL.

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 05:38:33 PM »
The topic has been touched on before but the main difference people seem to agree on is that the works of Lovecraft in regards to the Cthulhu mythos are uncaring.. about any form or morality. I myself think there is a place for that type of ancient evil or primordial evil.. but it comes down to perception.

I know one of my characters reacted very badly to the old folklore of the evil before the darkness, he once sited an aboleth looking creature outside the morning lord temple. Its more terrifying to him than a blood sucker. This was soon after the Ghakis shot some negative energy beam toward the sky.. wicked event!

Perhaps more ancient uber powerful tentacles lovecraft mythos looking monsters..  a tweak? However many of the demons/devils look similar to some of the Lovecraft creations.


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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2011, 10:57:13 AM »
once i remamber a creature that called it self a god on the catacumbs likely 5 years ago. i was in a friends house his paladin was like.. gods i need to get the heck out of here quickly. think every one who was there died... that was the stronger thing i've hear on game.. but i played like.. two campains of cthulhu and i was realy amazed for the master details of the monsters and such wich some dm tried something like that on a event would remind me the first days playing that i didn't leave the church with fear of my mage been killed  :mrgreen:
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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2011, 04:54:15 PM »
I think it's been well-established that Gwydion pretty much is a Lovecraftian horror that got trapped by the Mists and wound up with his own domain (the Shadow Rift). I think Bluetspur is a bad example, because
Spoiler: show
the Illithid God-Brain was a human who sold out the whole Thaani civilization to the mind-flayers.
Just look at this guy:


WildPirate13

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2011, 04:58:31 PM »
You are correct Vengeful. *amended* I agree.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 05:00:13 PM by WildPirate13 »

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2011, 03:37:08 PM »
I think it's been well-established that Gwydion pretty much is a Lovecraftian horror that got trapped by the Mists and wound up with his own domain (the Shadow Rift). I think Bluetspur is a bad example, because
Spoiler: show
the Illithid God-Brain was a human who sold out the whole Thaani civilization to the mind-flayers.
Just look at this guy:


The stuff you mention about the God Brain is NOT canon, and is not what we're using for its backstory.

As for Gwydion, he's far too personal and interested in lesser beings to be a Cthulhu-type creature, aside from Nyarlathotep. I suppose one could say he's a expy of Nyarlathotep, but Gwydion's nowhere near as powerful.

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Dread

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Re: Question About the Cthulhu Mythos
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2011, 04:16:04 PM »
The stuff you mention about the God Brain is NOT canon, and is not what we're using for its backstory.

As for Gwydion, he's far too personal and interested in lesser beings to be a Cthulhu-type creature, aside from Nyarlathotep. I suppose one could say he's a expy of Nyarlathotep, but Gwydion's nowhere near as powerful.

Iadul, you're right. It isn't canon. Curse you, Mistipedia! Also, 'expy' .. has someone been reading TV Tropes?  :P