Lower the level cap to 12?

[Ulrik Bolshnik]

This topic is started by the responses here.

I'd appreciate it if folks would discuss this and not just vote. This poll/post is an attempt to grease the gears of discussion on this topic. 

I'll start.

My reasons for:

     A) Removes the need for ridiculous monsters with 100/+1 damage reduction for example; no doubt you can think of many more examples of silly-powerful critters but this is just one example for brevity's sake.

     B) Without high level characters running around there is a greater level of horror-element on the server; a nosferatu or werewolf for example is a truly dangerous foe to the majority of the population rather than the opposite being true as now. Not to mention the drastic reduction in those able to cast Raise Dead..

     C) Due to the lack of silly-powerful monsters with redundant damage reduction or other powers less potent gear is required netting a reduced requirement for a magic-based class or higher strength magic equipment.

My reasons against:

     1) May be an extreme difficulty for devolopers to alter the system at this point.

[LoLJohnFerro]

No offence but this has been brought up countless times and shot down each time...

[Minstrel]

No offence but this has been brought up countless times and shot down each time...

loljohnferro valid points: 2!



(For, by the by. With the problem that it seriously messes up ECL subraces and adjustments.)

[tzaeru]

No offence but this has been brought up countless times and shot down each time...

It has, but realities live in a constant change, and nothing should ever be carved into stone.  

Anyway, I'm totally for it, even that it means that half of my active chars suffer a niiice level loss. There's no horror in AB being 35/30/25/20. And, if only RP matters in creating horror and levels do not, then all the same, drop the levels!

For a short living time, there was a server which featured basically no dungeons, very minimal XP from killing creatures and level cap of 8 (or 12), with all deaths being permaned, as no one could cast raise on the whole server. Now THAT was interesting and fun, unfortunately doesn't seem to be up anymore. Yet, without being built on a horror or gothic themes and featuring a fairly typical setting, it still prompted a lot more real fear.

[Psyche]

Wipe the Vault
Redo the treasure tables so nothing is worth over 1gp
Remove Barb, Rogue, Cleric, Sorc, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Monk, Wiz, Pally and Fighter as classes as they're all broken/unbalanced/too easy/too hard.
Remove all spells from the game, as they're all beardy/broken/unbalanced/nerfed to the point of uselessness.
Fire all the DMs because they're no good. And the Developers. And the Community Council.
Put the server on a bonfire, to make sure nobody gets a copy of the Mod and makes their own.
Pull down the forum, so nobody can grief others on it.

Or

We can just accept that PotM is RUINED FOREVER

[Psyche]

Now for some serious comment:
I'm not sure if this high-level 'problem' is really as prevalent as people think. Remember, that if a player /has/ a high-level character they've more than likely gotten through through consistent and constructive roleplay. I don't know, do people /really/ feel that their roleplay experience has been RUINED FOREVER because there's a level 20 sat in the corner making comments? Have people systematically had their horror opportunities snatched away from the, by sword-wielding demigods smiting things? Or have these high-levels been valuable in fostering opportunities, helping new players, so on and so on.

[Bluebomber4evr]

We're not going to do this. It would seriously screw up the development plans that we have right now. Not that it would be difficult to implement, we just have no desire to do it.

[Heretic]

Indeed, it is a monstrouesque task, just thinking of it, makes me shudder.

[failed.bard]

  The problem has never been levels.  There are just as many characters under level 10 hanging around in the outskirts at night as there are high level ones, and they do it whether the high levels are there or not.

  The difference with the higher level characters, is that they fear different things, mostly based around whatever weaknesses they stiill have.
 
 Since Dribo is already perma'd, it doesn't matter if people know her fears now, so I'll use her as an example.  At level 2, she was afraid of everything but cats and undead.  After Corvus had a zombie cat maul her in the outskirts, she then became afraid of normal cats as well.
  By level 15, she had worked through most of her fears.  All that was left, was the fear of normal cats, of losing Rell, and of people not liking her.  The last two led directly to her being captured and executed

  The fear of ~monsters~ is just one kind of fear, and really, the cheapest sort, since it's simply a survival instinct.  Lowering the level cap only affects that one kind of fear, and ignores that the things that fit under "gothic horror" are most often the internally generated horrors, the unknown, and the things that you have no control over.

[Aahz]

It has, but realities live in a constant change, and nothing should ever be carved into stone.  

Except perhaps the base game mechanics

[DM Tarokka]

Imojina is dead too. She panicked with wolves. Even when with just one strike of her greatsword could kill them. And became very paranoid of demons at some point. She was around lev 10 in a period the average level was not too high.

But it's a matter of players' response really. Example happened some hours ago, my morning. With my overall lev 18 character met a player vampire spawn. Clearly the vampire must have been some levels less, even quite a bit. I was ICly busy, yet I stopped and RPed. I appreciated, and a lot, the fact the monster approached a higher level. On my side I gave back all that I could remaining in-character. And there was no PVP. I could say we both departed satisfied of the meeting. It's just a matter of attitude, open-mindness and respect. And clearly ability to remain in character not being destructive of others' RP and fun. And a matter of individual -stories-. Not a matter of levels, really.

[k_moustakas]

Besides, the whole idea is that high levels will spend more time away from barovia, right?

[Bluebomber4evr]

Besides, the whole idea is that high levels will spend more time away from barovia, right?

correct. Most of the areas outside of Barovia are being made for levels higher than 12.

And really, if we limit levels to 12, all that will change is that people will complain that there's too many level 12s instead of too many level 20s

[DM Tarokka]

And really, if we limit levels to 12, all that will change is that people will complain that there's too many level 12s instead of too many level 20s

And lev 20 are not that many either considered the numbers of the playerbase. Most of them are even half-shelved characters.

[Heretic]

And really, if we limit levels to 12, all that will change is that people will complain that there's too many level 12s instead of too many level 20s

And PoTM will once again, be Ruined Forever! 

[Ulrik Bolshnik]

We're not going to do this. It would seriously screw up the development plans that we have right now. Not that it would be difficult to implement, we just have no desire to do it.

Discussion hath ended.. 

[Budly]

Just to add a coin about old discussions taken up again, well it can be good to see old discussions weathered out in fresh air by fresh blood I say.

And lowering the cap would be interesting, I am undecided to be honest about this.

[engelfire]

Even though the areas outside barovia are designed for higher level people, the main rp-hub still is the outskirts. Thats where all the action happens, i for one dont wanna sit alone in some tavern in Port-a-Lucine when 99% of the people and happenings are elsewhere.

And theres not even any kind of carrot for me to go in these different domains. Dont get me wrong, those places are very beautifull and well made, but i  just dont find anything to do in there Maybe when Hazlan comes to the module i move there since its like domain for evil mage landlords

Perhaps the terrors of old night would stop attacking the outskirts, and prey more on those groups that dare to travel the night. Usually groups are well balanced in lv-wise so it should be easier to toss a monster or two at em that would keep things challengin?

It would also work miracles if dm's that are online would use their shout channel to send some rumours about happenings in the city or around the city during the night or coming morning. I know few dm's do write that kind of messages and i think it adds greatly to the mood when we hear that some poor soul was splattered becouse he didnt make it back inside in time.

Psychological, unknown terror beats spawned creatures anytimes 100-0 imo. I'd like to see more psychological terror and i would gladly rp that kind even if i have high lv, everyones mind will crack if you add the right pressure 

[DM Tarokka]

Even though the areas outside barovia are designed for higher level people, the main rp-hub still is the outskirts. Thats where all the action happens, i for one dont wanna sit alone in some tavern in Port-a-Lucine when 99% of the people and happenings are elsewhere.



Psychological, unknown terror beats spawned creatures anytimes 100-0 imo. I'd like to see more psychological terror and i would gladly rp that kind even if i have high lv, everyones mind will crack if you add the right pressure 

Actually there are many things going on in Port-à-Lucine and some of them are even very psychological... it's just that there is not too much to "fight", but that depends on the individual game-style.

[Kendric98]

I would say that when i had androvia in the port 99% of the time i was on noone was there. Things may be different now but i doubt it.

[Emomina]

They are different now.
Never been there when less than 10 characters were there lately.

[Hades]

I dont know.  I don't often see other PC's there.  The occasional one or two here and there, but I have yet to actually see any rp (other than when I'm with Marle) come out of it.  Love the area's none the less but I do wish more high level characters / dungeons were around too.

[Bluebomber4evr]

Bear in mind that the high-level hub isn't finished yet, and many of the high-level areas aren't finished yet.

Also, many high-level areas (fx: the demonologists) within Barovia will be moved to the Mists, leaving little incentive for high-level characters to stay in Barovia.

[Kendric98]

Bear in mind that the high-level hub isn't finished yet, and many of the high-level areas aren't finished yet.

Also, many high-level areas (fx: the demonologists) within Barovia will be moved to the Mists, leaving little incentive for high-level characters to stay in Barovia.

What about the MPC's that are high level should they move and chomp the high levels or run back and forth. I supose new monsters could handle the nubs area do to there ECL drop? At first it seems like a non issue because MPC's dont care about the dungeons but if you seperate the player base it gets to be expensive and a pain to run all around interacting and some can only do the running at night.

[Bad_Bud]

Bear in mind that the high-level hub isn't finished yet, and many of the high-level areas aren't finished yet.

Also, many high-level areas (fx: the demonologists) within Barovia will be moved to the Mists, leaving little incentive for high-level characters to stay in Barovia.

This will make it easier to check all the high level dungeons, for sure, and help to leave the low level dungeons for low level characters, but I doubt this will actually incite high levels to not hang out in Barovia.

Currently, the village is a bit of a high level dungeon hub, but I only go there to check out the dungeons, then I return to staying in the outskirts.  I figure most people do the same.