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Author Topic: Missle storm needs some form of save  (Read 19047 times)

Emomina

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2009, 05:43:00 PM »
Spells that unerringly hit their target are in the ruleset for a reason too. This game is uber balanced if you just follow it to a tee.
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Heretic

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2009, 05:43:55 PM »
I'll repeat, and quote Heretic: "Can't fix what isn't broken."

I didn't say that.  ;)

We've had discussions and topics like this before, and we've acted on them, however the counter arguing or importance and the tone that some people give to them thinking they'll change anything in the way its seen from a development point of view feels a bit alarmist and unnecessary. That its brought to attention, good. It will be considered, but just as something is posted; do not panic or believe it will immediately be changed just as when you post a topic like this you shouldn't expect to see it changed or that we'll immediately turn our attention to it as if PotM's overall experience depended on it - there's many more priorities and limited people able to tweak spells, as its not something every developer can do.

Just give it a rest, get some perspective and trust that there's people looking at these issues when time is there. Its been done in the past, and don't see why it wont be done in the future.


Aldarris

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2009, 05:51:28 PM »
Spells that unerringly hit their target are in the ruleset for a reason too. This game is uber balanced if you just follow it to a tee.

If there's a desperate reason for a spell that unerringly hits their target repeatedly 20-30 times for 1d6 damage for non-resistable damage, I fail to see it...

But tweaking the spell so that only 10 missles can hit any one target would solve that.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 05:58:47 PM by Aldarris »
Figures, Soren's too busy to do something positive.  He thinks putting a smiling face in every message is positivity.

Heretic is a terrible player, always has been.  No wonder PoTM numbers are dwindling *sigh*

Amon-Si

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2009, 06:08:41 PM »
This spell, when it is empowered or when it is not, will only hit you 20 times IF you are a level 20 mage. This is true.
Empower spell does not behave as described and IS only a damage multiplier.

Minstrel

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2009, 06:20:18 PM »
You know whats borderline cheese to Aldarris? Fights spamming knockdown ad similar! Should we change that to?

Simple answer: Yes.

And whoever at Bioware came up with 'Discipline' needs to be force fed a DM handbook until his body absorbs knowledge of the Trip skill via osmosis.

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2009, 06:32:13 PM »
Defence presents exhibit one



Defence rests

No more talk that Empowering Missle Storm will increase the amount of missles. Get your facts straight before making accusations.

Greater Missle Storm missles do 2d6 damage per missle... Thus, the damage range for an empowered Greater Missle Storm, 20 x (2d6 x 1.5) is 60 to 360 on a single target.

EDIT: I hate maths... think I edited those figures three times before I got them right.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:00:08 PM by Grieyls »

failed.bard

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2009, 06:58:50 PM »
IGMS missiles in PotM do d4+1 damage per missile, not the defatult 2d6.

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2009, 07:05:39 PM »
Oh really... well in that case... 60 to 150 is the damage range... Yeesh already been nerfed.. Stop complaining already.

EDIT: gotta say though if 150hp is the max damage for an empowered IGMS then I really don't see the issue.. I mean, how many potential Hit Points does a 20th level fighter have?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:12:24 PM by Grieyls »

Kadtreko

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2009, 07:07:54 PM »
I didn't say that.  ;)

...reread and looks like I misunderstood the post.

Bad_Bud

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2009, 07:14:43 PM »
lol, for the last time, guys, the spell change list is wrong.  POTM IGMS does 1d6 per missile.

mayvind

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2009, 07:15:27 PM »
i think alot of people do not have theirs fact strait Isac greater missile do 1d6 damage per hit to max 20 on level 20 which it is ME only that is level 20 wizard at the moment, might be 1 more soon and the spell is not my favorite anyway atleast not to kill Fighter class with it. And what this talk about abusing the spells ? what abusive about it for casting it to kill the opponent by spaming it ?? ... meh too busy with Dragon Age to come ingame and abusing Missile storm people talking about.

mayvind

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2009, 07:16:16 PM »
i think alot of people do not have theirs fact strait Isac greater missile do 1d6 damage per hit to max 20 on level 20 which it is ME only that is level 20 wizard at the moment, might be 1 more soon and the spell is not my favorite anyway atleast not to kill Fighter class with it. And what this talk about abusing the spells ? what abusive about it for casting it to kill the opponent by spaming it ?? ... meh too busy with Dragon Age to come ingame and abusing Missile storm people talking about.

Sheesh I spamed my own post ! .... where is delete button ?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:18:16 PM by mayvind »

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2009, 07:22:32 PM »
Ok... calculation update, sorry was going by the IG spell description. Dev's liittle suggestion when changing a spell how abouts changing the spell description as well in accordance to the new change. Much confusion ensues when Spell effect does not match what descriptions states.

Well any way (1d6 x 20) x 1.5 = 30 to 180

Nope, still don't see the issue

Aldarris

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2009, 07:27:53 PM »
Grieyls, english is a great subject also.

Definition of numeric:

nu·mer·ic  (n-mrk, ny-)
n.
A number or numeral.
adj.
Variant of numerical.


Definition of numeric:

var·i·a·ble  (vār--bl, vr-)
adj.
1.
a. Likely to change or vary; subject to variation; changeable.
b. Inconstant; fickle.
2. Biology Tending to deviate, as from a normal or recognized type; aberrant.
3. Mathematics Having no fixed quantitative value.
n.
1. Something that varies or is prone to variation.
2. Astronomy A variable star.
3. Mathematics
a. A quantity capable of assuming any of a set of values.
b. A symbol representing such a quantity. For example, in the expression a2 + b2 = c2, a, b, and c are variables.


In the case of the spell description for IGMS, the number of missles is the numeric value, and the 1d6 damage is the variable value.

I stated that the number of missles isn't increased, but according to the description otherwise would be increased.  Thank god it isn't.

READ!

Case closed.   :D
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:35:05 PM by Aldarris »
Figures, Soren's too busy to do something positive.  He thinks putting a smiling face in every message is positivity.

Heretic is a terrible player, always has been.  No wonder PoTM numbers are dwindling *sigh*

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2009, 07:35:53 PM »
Huh, what has that got do with anything of the subject at hand?

Stated that the number of missles isn't increased huh? Well, let's wind back the way back machine to.... and I quote

a spell that unerringly hits their target repeatedly 20-30 times

20-30 times? What exactly did you mean by that then if not to suggest that IGMS would have up to 30 missles? Which it doesn't.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 07:37:38 PM by Grieyls »

Purist

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2009, 08:31:26 PM »
Maximized?

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2009, 08:46:58 PM »
Quote
Maximize Spell.

Magical expertise allows certain spells to be cast with all variable numeric effects (number of targets, damage, etc) applied at thier maximum. Maximize spells occupy spell slots three levels higher than normal.

In short, you don't get extra missles from a maximized GMS, only all missles hit with max damage that's 9 damage per missle.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 08:48:36 PM by Grieyls »

failed.bard

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2009, 08:53:54 PM »
Quote
Maximize Spell.

Magical expertise allows certain spells to be cast with all variable numeric effects (number of targets, damage, etc) applied at thier maximum. Maximize spells occupy spell slots three levels higher than normal.

In short, you don't get extra missles from a maximized GMS, only all missles hit with max damage that's 9 damage per missle.

Wrong, all missiles hit for maximum danage, which is 5, since the missiles do D4+1, just like the spell changes thread says.



Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2009, 09:00:06 PM »
Ok now I'm really confused... Can I have official ruling here by a Dev.. I got people here saying it's 1d4+1 per missle and others saying it's 1d6.. So which is it?

Spell description says 2d6.... I'm close to pulling my hair out here.  :?

Can't seem to find that thread either... I think I might take a break.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:05:15 PM by Grieyls »

failed.bard

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2009, 09:13:51 PM »
The spell changes thread is here: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2173.msg18273#msg18273

A maximized level 20 IGMS would be 20 missiles at 5 damage each.
An empowered level 20 IGMS would be 20 missiles doing 3-7 damage each (3, 4, 6, and 7; off a 1, 2, 3, or 4; for an average of 5 per missile, and a maximum of 140)

Hopefully that makes more sense.

Grieyls

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2009, 09:32:35 PM »
[returns from having lunch]

Thankyou... Well nuff said I guess

Bad_Bud

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2009, 10:27:45 PM »
 :banghead:

I have completely failed again.  The script uses a variable called "d6Dice" and I was not reading the other part...

Failed Bard and everyone else is right.   :cry:

mayvind

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2009, 04:06:06 AM »
Gah ok ... where is guiny pig ? let me log in game and blast first one i see with Max Greater Spell missle  ( due so many doesnt know the spell actual damage is because the spell is not that really much in use which also prove something ).

mayvind

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2009, 04:15:44 AM »
OK tested MAX IGMS doing 5 damage each hit for level 20 wizard total is 100 HP. A Max IGMS using the spell level 9 slots which i never use because i rather use Balor or Timestop or Wail of Banshee or Shape change for measly 100 damages on a single target if multiples target then the damage is spread around doing even less. I rather just nuke them with other spells then to waste precious spell slots on sonething as this. In fact i suggest it be raise to d6 a damage insted !

Emomina

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Re: Missle storm needs some form of save
« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2009, 04:44:56 AM »
OK tested MAX IGMS doing 5 damage each hit for level 20 wizard total is 100 HP. A Max IGMS using the spell level 9 slots which i never use because i rather use Balor or Timestop or Wail of Banshee or Shape change for measly 100 damages on a single target if multiples target then the damage is spread around doing even less. I rather just nuke them with other spells then to waste precious spell slots on sonething as this. In fact i suggest it be raise to d6 a damage insted !

Instantly kills over half the characters in PotM, mayvind. Not all of us are running around with an army of level 20 characters.
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