Invisibility

[Kaldo]

 Lately, I've encountered several wizards running around stalking me and my party. We all know that nwn has limits, however, the use of invisibility is, in my opinion, becoming an issue. Players who are using Invisibility should allow others to make a Listen check to know someone is around, unless they move only during times of major sound ( like battles). If you need help determining the difficulty of detecting you, see http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Invisibility. "A successful (listen) check lets a character hear an invisible creature "over there somewhere". It is practically impossible to pinpoint the location of an invisible creature. A listen check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible creature's location.".
                                                                                                                                                                               
 This annoys me in particular because my character is a Wisdom-based Ranger with maxed Listen and Spot but he still can't locate people who do no effort not to make noise. If a person wants to be completely "Invisible" to normal detecting methods, he/she should cast both an Invisibility and a Silence spell. Maybe something can be done by the developers, so you enter an "modified Stealth mode" or something similar.

  Anyway, I had great fun with this people, but maybe the RP could be enhanced by Roleplaying the sound. Although as far as I know I had no experience with people using normal Stealth, so I don't know if this is an issue or not, this people should also remember that you can only use stealth if you have some decent cover or concealment or you are far away (for instance, shadows are usually enough, but not against someone with Dark or Ultra Vision).

  I'm looking forward to hear other people's opinion on the matter.

[Rex]

You've got issues spotting them with Listen?  I find the little buggers trying to sponge xp off my barbarians all the time.  Best to just treat them like any other invisible thing that goes bump in the night and either run from it or stab the hell out of it.

~Rex

[Budly]

Thing is, hard to send tells to like 5 players hearing the same sound BUt of course, It can be really annoying with invised people. It's like stealth, not a super inhuman ability

[LoLJohnFerro]

Mate do it my way atart throw stronger varnishes at the moving specter till it notices that dieng isnt worth it! 

[darkpriest]

Both stealth and invisibility are broken (stealth even more than invisibility), but these are NWN limitations that one has to live with.

[Minstrel]

Agree 100%.

The most annoying issue is that when invisible, even if you shout out something in the normal channel, only someone who has See Invisibility hears it. Sadly I don't think there's any way around it... Usually, whenever making people know I'm making noise, I have to do lots of tells, requesting from EACH PERSON a listen check, then sending EACH PERSON an answer... You can imagine why it gets wearing with groups of 4+ people.

[engelfire]

Or you can go near them if they are in group and type something like "//please everyone roll a listen check, if you pass dcXX you hear someone walking around"

and then walk back being invisible and act accordingly to their rolls. wont take longer than couple of seconds

or if they are seperated you can be nice and ask in tell from one of the group members if he/she could type "//please all roll listen" then the invisible one would emote to those who pass that they hear something

[Rex]

I really don't have any issues hearing anyone invisible if the listen roll picks them up and phases them in.

~Rex

[Emomina]

100% Disagree.  The engine handles listen checks for you. You just aren't hearing them.

No matter what you may think, it is much much harder to stealth than to detect, the balance is definitely skewed slightly against stealthers.

My Rogue is +26 move silently, but there are plenty of PCs that will hear her eventually.

Rolling any type of dice while stealthed will break stealth. Instead of claiming its unfair, load up you listen skill, once you get it to +15 or so, very very few could go unnoticed, especially unbuffed.

[engelfire]

100% Disagree.  The engine handles listen checks for you. You just aren't hearing them.

No matter what you may think, it is much much harder to stealth than to detect, the balance is definitely skewed slightly against stealthers.

My Rogue is +26 move silently, but there are plenty of PCs that will hear her eventually.

Rolling any type of dice while stealthed will break stealth. Instead of claiming its unfair, load up you listen skill, once you get it to +15 or so, very very few could go unnoticed, especially unbuffed.

thats true aswell.

And also, no one is constantly listening to their surroundings. its impossible especially if you are in group. Chances are that you are focused on your companions mostly and all the ambient sounds fade to the back. If your group is travelling on a dirtroad, it doesnt give much sounds anyway so really one invisible character fades easily into the sounds your group makes.

[Vespertilio]

100% Disagree.  The engine handles listen checks for you. You just aren't hearing them.

No matter what you may think, it is much much harder to stealth than to detect, the balance is definitely skewed slightly against stealthers.

My Rogue is +26 move silently, but there are plenty of PCs that will hear her eventually.

Rolling any type of dice while stealthed will break stealth. Instead of claiming its unfair, load up you listen skill, once you get it to +15 or so, very very few could go unnoticed, especially unbuffed.

As a 'Faildancer'  (an Sd who is heard quite often), I quite agree.  Focusing on listen and making use of listen gear (such as the helm of the bat) goes a long way against sneaks and sneaky mages.  Monks and rangers do very well in this area.

[hugolino]

Players who are using Invisibility should allow others to make a Listen check to know someone is around...

Not necessary in my uninformed opinion. I've managed sometimes to hear an invisible person with my level two ranger before, although it helped that the person walked too close to me and I wasn't moving at the time.

[eyeofpestilence]

Potions of see invis and true seeing are plentiful. Ghost helms and candles with true seeing as well. Invisibility is uber easily countered. Seriously, there is no need to nerf it.

If anything needs nerfing to balance out hearing vrs MS it's the spell Amplify. Pure sneak pwnage with +20 to listen. Add any ranks what so ever and the sneak is caught. Add the helm of bat and +25 to listen? Unless you have 45 ranks or higher in MS presuming the listener has no ranks in listen, which they always do...that sneak is highly likely to be caught. Sure amplify only last a few rounds. But given 10 ranks of listen with +25 ranks in buffs, only a half dozen or less sneaks stand a chance.

[Minstrel]

I -think- UB's point is about Invisibility.

The engine does handle Listen/Spot vs. Hide/MS in stealth, but NOT in Invisibility. You only detect Invisible people when they are within a few feet of you.

Point is, my Wizard, wearing fullplate with no MS can stand just outside the range of Lorm Hrothskold with his massively buffed Listen and Helm of the Bat, and proceed to happily begin casting spells out loud, and Lorm wouldn't be able to tell a damn thing.

Which dosen't seem right, I agree.

Heck, technically Invisibility should simply confer a +100 (Or other arbitarily high number) bonus to Hide.

[Rex]

I -think- UB's point is about Invisibility.

The engine does handle Listen/Spot vs. Hide/MS in stealth, but NOT in Invisibility. You only detect Invisible people when they are within a few feet of you.

Point is, my Wizard, wearing fullplate with no MS can stand just outside the range of Lorm Hrothskold with his massively buffed Listen and Helm of the Bat, and proceed to happily begin casting spells out loud, and Lorm wouldn't be able to tell a damn thing.

Which dosen't seem right, I agree.

Heck, technically Invisibility should simply confer a +100 (Or other arbitarily high number) bonus to Hide.

I don't have that issue my pukey little Level 7 barbarian "hears" invisable people a mile away.  ESPECIALLY if they start casting.

~Rex

[Budly]

Seriously? One can "see" The invis people from further away if you have high spot or listen? I Never noticed that.

[failed.bard]

The range for detecting an invisible character/creature is whisper range.  Outside that you won't hear them cast, but you will still hear the effects being applied.

True seeing/See invisibility > Invisibility
Hide > Spot
Listen > Move Silently

  Higher listen skill will allow you to "hear" typed words or emotes at a greater distance than whisper range, but I have no idea how that's determined.  It seems pretty random for what you hear and when, but there are lots of modifiers automatically calculated in it.

[Budly]

The range for detecting an invisible character/creature is whisper range.  Outside that you won't hear them cast, but you will still hear the effects being applied.

True seeing/See invisibility > Invisibility
Hide > Spot
Listen > Move Silently

  Higher listen skill will allow you to "hear" typed words or emotes at a greater distance than whisper range, but I have no idea how that's determined.  It seems pretty random for what you hear and when, but there are lots of modifiers automatically calculated in it.

Hmm well then. That explains it. Thank you Bard.

[Grieyls]

Heh... My mage has a helm that glows, lights his way in the dark as it were. Anyway, when he is invisible there was a time I thought that wearing the helm would give away his position, something like "What's glowing?". So he would never wear it. However he did a few times cause I wanted other players to think something was up.. but they never did anything and I couldn't figure out why. Eventually discovered that invisibility also winks out any light source your char happens to be carrying and wearing. Meh, I thought... I play it so he doesnlt wear that helm. He really doesn't need to now though cause he has True Seeing 

[DM Nocturne]

I find that most of you complaining about invisibility is due to the fact that you're not 'winning'. If your character is being insecure with people running around invisible, then roleplay that out. Be confrontational, demand they show themselves, etc.

NWN has limitations, and we live with them. It's not breaking the game.

Bonus points to the roleplayer who chooses to allow others to have a chance at detecting him.

I -think- UB's point is about Invisibility.

The engine does handle Listen/Spot vs. Hide/MS in stealth, but NOT in Invisibility. You only detect Invisible people when they are within a few feet of you.

Point is, my Wizard, wearing fullplate with no MS can stand just outside the range of Lorm Hrothskold with his massively buffed Listen and Helm of the Bat, and proceed to happily begin casting spells out loud, and Lorm wouldn't be able to tell a damn thing.

Which dosen't seem right, I agree.

Heck, technically Invisibility should simply confer a +100 (Or other arbitarily high number) bonus to Hide.

Invisibility makes you invisible. You can still hear them cast.
A mage shouldn't need to put points into hide just so he/she can take advantage of the spell.