Item-destroying creatures

[LoLJohnFerro]

Well if they do that then...
1. They have to much time on their hands to micro a rust monster
2. And if they do exploit it make it so that if you hit it once then it starts to destroy weapons and donesnt reset.

[Amon-Si]

I think I will maintain my simple tactic of shooting the bloody things. 

[Budly]

I think I will maintain my simple tactic of shooting the bloody things. 

That or spell nuke em, works either way

[Minstrel]

What you mean naked and punching them is exploiting? It is legit ic fear that will lose item fighting these thing armored so best solution is to wrestling with them. one is not actually all naked we all have some loin cloth on. yours character might be shine about it but other might not it is exploit if say a local barbarian like Kayne with only his loin cloth fight it bare fist ?

And they are rust monster they are not acid monster. as for slimes thing if they dont have DR then my fist hurt them fine. people seem to see bare hand combat as visual of NWN but bare hand combat mean kick, bite, head butt, fist, slap, stomp, throw, tear it arm off (and hit them with it), claws, strangle, poking eyes, kick balls, etc..etc... 

This does kind of make sense on Rust monsters (Sort of...) but I was referring to oozes, which people were mentioning having gotten naked to fist fight. If you apply any part of your body, to any part of an ooze that can dissolve metal, guess what's going to happen?

Just imagine how it would look in a PnP situation.

DM: Sadly, when you look at your sword, you notice half of it has rusted and fallen to the ground, completely corroded by the acid of the ooze.
Player: Okay, I punch it.
DM: What?
Player: I can do that, right? Unarmed attack?
DM: Are you sure you want to do that?
Player: Sure.
DM: Okay.... [rolls attack, and damage] You stomp the ooze, dealing a minor blow. Some of the acid gets on your foot as you do this, and chews through your boots, and your foot. Nothing is left of your foot save for a few bloody chips of bone, which rapidly dissolve away too.

Also, how the hell would you go about fighting a blob of ooze bare-handed?

[Rex]

Stripping down to your skivies to duke it out with an Amoebic Blob of Acid and digestive Enzymes, in order to protect your "stuff".  Nothing to do with fear there.  If you were AFRAID of it, you'd run away from it.  Going after it in your BVD's, is just cheesy exploiting a game mechanic.  Pure and Simple.  Now if you sick your monk best friend on it, that's different, though a bit odd and messy,  sick a caster on it with spells, different, back off and launch a dozen rocks/quarrels/arrows into it, different.  But "Hold on mates!  *clicks the quickslots, the SHAZAM lightning bolt removes all his destroyable gear and packs it away in a game mechanic protected area of the sheet.....Dives naked into the Gray Ooze*  That's OOC.

~Rex

[kenpen]

What's the difference in a monk beating it to death with his fists wearing no armor, and any other person beating it to death with THEIR fists, wearing no armor? There really isn't one.

[Emomina]

There isnt a difference other than the damage dealt and not giving up AoOs, but anyone can achieve a good fist fighting build with all the feats and a decent strength and decent gauntlets.

[kyoung2200]

Well since they are blobs of acid, perhaps some sort of back-fire?  d6 acid damage or something of the like?  As long as it can be scripted to not back-fire on ranged attacks and such.

[Smitehammer]

Silver and gold should be immune to the oozy effects, and the rust monsters.  Gold especially - perhaps even 'mithril' if it's platinum.  The Egyptians called gold the flesh of gods because it never corroded, never tarnished, and was eternally golden.  Silver is also fairly inert, though not to the point of gold.  Iron, steel, wood, and raw flesh would all suffer from the acid of oozes, but if oozes were real critters I'd have at them with some good ole' gold gilded armor and a gold gilded sword, or silver if gold was too expensive.

Or bow and arrow.  Sure, that works too.

[Rex]

What's the difference in a monk beating it to death with his fists wearing no armor, and any other person beating it to death with THEIR fists, wearing no armor? There really isn't one.

Monks are super human's that eventually evolve into Outsiders.  Their bare hands eventually outclass any magic item or mundane item for that matter available to a fighter, they can out run horses, have AC in excess of what a plate and tower shield fighter can have with piles of feats to increase that And even other abilities, to protect them from things like traps and magic, and arrows bolts and rocks.

That's the difference.  The other guy, is using cheesy ooc thinking to protect his gear.  The monk, is meant to fight that way hence is acting ICly.  One knows Kung fu, and can do the Bruce Lee after image Wu Shu Fan.  The other, is just trying to keep their gear from getting eaten, so OOCly, utilizes an aspect of the game engine to protect their gear.  Utilizing a Game engine Aspect in such a manner is Exploiting.  I'm pretty sure that destroy item effect is hard coded, so you can't fine tune it so that it only dissolves what it's supposed to.  It's a bit more then just "acid" or just "rust", but either way, it does what it does, and to use the limitations of the game engine against itself, is still exploiting.

~Rex

[kenpen]

 Give me a break. Beating something with your bare hands so your weapons don't get destroyed is *not* exploiting. If they want to add something back in, stating that a bare-handed attack on an ooze constitutes an automatic hit back, that's fine. I don't think the original game mechanics have that included, but that would make sense. And its certainly feasible you could beat the tar out of a rust monster without any automatic damage for the fists.

But, if we're going down that route, you should be getting damaged for using your fists against half the things in the game. Most monsters are hard, and they hurt. Anyone who isn't a high level monk is likely to be breaking their hands and destroying their bodies.

But, really, its getting a bit silly. If this were "reality" you'd be getting killed from a single hit, you'd be passing out under all your armor, and you'd be spending most of your time walking and eating.

[darkpriest]

What's the difference in a monk beating it to death with his fists wearing no armor, and any other person beating it to death with THEIR fists, wearing no armor? There really isn't one.

Monks are super human's that eventually evolve into Outsiders.  Their bare hands eventually outclass any magic item or mundane item for that matter available to a fighter, they can out run horses, have AC in excess of what a plate and tower shield fighter can have with piles of feats to increase that And even other abilities, to protect them from things like traps and magic, and arrows bolts and rocks.

That's the difference.  The other guy, is using cheesy ooc thinking to protect his gear.  The monk, is meant to fight that way hence is acting ICly.  One knows Kung fu, and can do the Bruce Lee after image Wu Shu Fan.  The other, is just trying to keep their gear from getting eaten, so OOCly, utilizes an aspect of the game engine to protect their gear.  Utilizing a Game engine Aspect in such a manner is Exploiting.  I'm pretty sure that destroy item effect is hard coded, so you can't fine tune it so that it only dissolves what it's supposed to.  It's a bit more then just "acid" or just "rust", but either way, it does what it does, and to use the limitations of the game engine against itself, is still exploiting.

~Rex

what if the rust monster would be searching and targeting items in the whole character's inventory? is it possible??

[Budly]

Give me a break. Beating something with your bare hands so your weapons don't get destroyed is *not* exploiting. If they want to add something back in, stating that a bare-handed attack on an ooze constitutes an automatic hit back, that's fine. I don't think the original game mechanics have that included, but that would make sense. And its certainly feasible you could beat the tar out of a rust monster without any automatic damage for the fists.

But, if we're going down that route, you should be getting damaged for using your fists against half the things in the game. Most monsters are hard, and they hurt. Anyone who isn't a high level monk is likely to be breaking their hands and destroying their bodies.

But, really, its getting a bit silly. If this were "reality" you'd be getting killed from a single hit, you'd be passing out under all your armor, and you'd be spending most of your time walking and eating.

If something breaks your weapon, it prolly break you too

[Minstrel]

Yah.... It'd be a tough call, but I think as a DM I'd give a Monk a reflex save to not be damaged: Same as the DC for a weapon, DC 14. This would represent him scything his hand through the ooze hard enough to injure it, and fast enough that the ooze didn't stick to his hand.

[kenpen]

Well, other chars might be able to do the same thing... so, could just make it a reflex save like a trap, and allow for imp evasion and such.

[Bluebomber4evr]

oozes like black puddings and gray oozes have acid that only affects certain materials like metal or leather so beating them up bare-handed might not do much to the skin (maybe gray oozes would but not black puddings)

and rust monsters only affect metal.

anyway, it looks like the system soren implemented deals "item damage" over repeated hits so you can't exploit it by running away and coming back over and over. 

[k_moustakas]

I actually started the whole 'how amazing are the devs no 10000000' thread because of this... I can't believe you man would go into all this trouble... I won't ever experience this script because I value my things too highly to test it, but... it sounds something else

*thumbs up*

[Mcskinns]

 I'm pretty sure that destroy item effect is hard coded, so you can't fine tune it so that it only dissolves what it's supposed to. 
~Rex

Actually, I have noticed the Item Property Material in the toolset, allowing for the base material of an item to be designated.  So it should be possible to search for item property Material:Iron and destroy if it returns true, it'd be a fairly easy OnHit script to implement, the real tedious part would be having to edit every item in the pallete and add the propert material type to it, then replacing every item already possessed by a PC to have the updated property.

Its too bad something like this wasn't around when the server was first built, would have been cake to make adding it a priority to all new templates from the get go.


mcs

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

Well, I did consider that alternatively, we could search for other material than iron as an item property, meaning we would only have to update a limited amount of items.

[Rex]

Give me a break. Beating something with your bare hands so your weapons don't get destroyed is *not* exploiting. If they want to add something back in, stating that a bare-handed attack on an ooze constitutes an automatic hit back, that's fine. I don't think the original game mechanics have that included, but that would make sense. And its certainly feasible you could beat the tar out of a rust monster without any automatic damage for the fists.

But, if we're going down that route, you should be getting damaged for using your fists against half the things in the game. Most monsters are hard, and they hurt. Anyone who isn't a high level monk is likely to be breaking their hands and destroying their bodies.

But, really, its getting a bit silly. If this were "reality" you'd be getting killed from a single hit, you'd be passing out under all your armor, and you'd be spending most of your time walking and eating.

Not giving anyone a break on things like this.  When you use, a Game Mechanic Limitation intentionally to Benefit yourself, that's Exploiting.  As for the passing out in a single hit thing, that's for a hitpoint thread where folks can point out the thousands of times over the history of Dungeons and Dragons that your Hitpoints don't all represent Physical Damage, but are a combination of factors such as endurance and luck.  Very little of it is actually physical (hence why many d20 games, also have a mechanic for Fort Save or Die if X amount of damage is taken in a single hit).  To be locked into that mode of thinking once again, is computer gamer thinking, not Role playing game thinking.

Would I like to see, the monsters destroy properties work appropriately, of course.  But I would also like to see folks stop exploiting then claiming they aren't, and then, as frosting on the cake, some real green slime would be nice as well.  I like Soren's note on the search for material property actually.  If that could fine tune the destroy item effect, it would curtail the "Strip down to the Underroo's to do battle with the Blob!" stuff.

~Rex