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Author Topic: Liz is overpowered.  (Read 9182 times)

Jana

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Liz is overpowered.
« on: July 30, 2009, 06:27:41 PM »
Liz is overpowered. This is for a few reasons:

  • She raises the dead for pennies an unlimited number of times a day
  • She can instantly heal people fully for afflictions that in most cases came from monsters waiting on just the other side of the transition
  • She should have been a Dark Lord ages ago and doesn't seem to have failed a check once

My suggestion is, let her raise people who are level 5 and below. Anyone else should be made to respawn or find a cleric PC. This will also solve the problem of people running into the temple getting healed, run out, run back in and get healed and repeat this cycle over and over again. Which personally I don't think she heals people so they can run out and get hurt agian. Its probably a form of ignoring an NPC or worse exploiting a NPC.

Also lets remember is this is ONE woman. She shouldn't be able to cast heal 50 times a day, not greater restore 30 times a day and sure as heck not raise dead 20 times a day. The poor woman needs time to sleep and eat and pray.

In a paper and pen game I played magic is much more common than it is here and yet someone coming back from the dead is a huge deal. In addistion most temples will heal you once with cure moderate wounds because most clerics are no higher than level 6. I'm not saying it should be that extreme here, but it would add a lot more caution if people don't know where their next raise dead is coming from.
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ducky445544

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 06:45:24 PM »
1000 gold or more for a level 14 or so raise- now that's alot of pennies.  :lol:

shadymerchant

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 06:51:50 PM »
I think you underestimate the impact Liz has. This server has a huge population, including new characters and low level characters. The server environment is rather harsh and the mortality rate is high for them. Not to mention outcast populations, like calibans, which are small isolated character groups that typically don't have a cleric within them. Add to that a general lack of clerics with the spell level to raise, and you are creating an environment where folks spend a lot more time being dead. I've died quite a few times in the past few weeks with my level 1 - 5 character and many of those times I've had to wait an hour or more before any clerics with the capility to raise logged in. We might have a lot of clerics, but they may not be leveled, and they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people. The role you are essentially asking them to take up. Having an active responsibility to do it.

Budly

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 06:53:15 PM »
The thing is, it is rather abusive to run up and down all the time in the crypt for healing or pay that really low sum of coin when people have hundreds of thousands of gold :)

dae24

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 06:59:06 PM »
some good points in there.

considering the problem with the undead in their basement, i am sure she would be willing to heal anyone who helps in that cause. as for random people walking in, maybe not as much, but really its not the nature of healers to refuse healing anyone. also, consider she doesnt adventure so she is more or less resting any time she isnt casting.

i can see where you are coming from though, so here are some ideas

how about adding knuckle costs to her other services?

heal= 1 knuckle.
restore = 3 knuckles
tonic = 5 knuckles (as normal)
raise = 1 knuckle per level + gold cost
resurect = 5 knuckles per level +gold cost

i think this makes things a little interesting. if you need to raise or resurect someone you may end up with a side quest of clearing undead for knuckles...lowbies might also be able to make a little coin selling knuckles to higher level players that just want a quick res for their friend.

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 07:00:02 PM »
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Jana

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 07:09:18 PM »
There's always the respawn option. A level 6 respawn won't lose a level. Now a level 12 or 14 respawn? Yeah that'll cost you a level usually. But the question then is you've been around a LONG time. Can you honestly say you haven't made a friend with at least one cleric? Are you saying a that point a 1200 or 1400 gold raise is really going to affect you? The gold is only meaningful for low levels which is why I suggest they still pay. For high levels? Jana has 10,000 fang on her and has for the  last 2 months. I concider it pocket change.
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peluscious

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 07:11:44 PM »
If she asked for knuckles, they we would have high levels going in the crypts, having no fun at it, and robbing it from lowbies.
No advantage from my point of view.

failed.bard

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 07:13:14 PM »
  I've lost a level respawning at both 4th and 5th levels with characters before.  I would rather wait four hours for the raise then essentially lose a week or more of playing time put into a character.  For characters with an ECL, dropping 5th to 4th could cost them a months worth.

  I think the raising and ressurection should be there, but the greater restoration should be a normal restoration.  She'll restore levels, but that missing limb needs a PC to fix then.

Jana

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »
She'll restore levels, but that missing limb needs a PC to fix then.

Thats really the whole point I'm tryingto make. With a weakened NPC the PCs have to step up and work. Its no different than NPC merchants no longer selling healing potions because we wanted to have a player market for herbists.
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LawfulJoe

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 07:25:00 PM »
It seem to be missing the money making boat. I am level 14 and have under 20000 fang and never had over 30000. Purhaps it is becuae I do not have countless hours to spend doing crafting and prefer to spend it RPing or adventuring...

Anyway, keep in mind the mechanics behind the ECL hit on Some Subraces. If you force them to respawn and take the xp hit, then you have successfuly made the advancement even slower for there race.

As unrealistic as it may be, for the game harmony, I would nto change her.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 07:33:45 PM »
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place. 
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puckwolf

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 07:34:29 PM »
I personally don't see much a problem with Liz either.  Most of those people who run back and forth between the crypts and the cleric are lower levels anyways.  In terms of charging knuckles for healing, we'd end up with knuckle farmers abusing an area that's already over dungeoned, nor would it make much sense icly for an ML cleric to refuse someone for healing.

In terms of it not making sense for one cleric to cast a hundred heals a day, ideally I would think there'd be several clerics rotating the position with Lizuca (but that would probably over complicate things).  As Shady mentioned, it wouldn't really be fair to rely entirely on player clerics either, who would then be constantly harassed for raises while on the other end dead players wait hours for help.  There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 07:36:01 PM by puckwolf »

Budly

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 07:38:24 PM »
Remove Liz overpowered healing

Solution

Die less, do not walk out by night, feel the horrors of the core.

It's not a freaking godess of healing we are talking about guys and gals.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 07:47:31 PM »
Quote
There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.

I had to see this again.   :thumbup:
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Budly

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2009, 07:50:08 PM »
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

ducky445544

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 08:28:04 PM »
Yep. And, I looked it up- 100,000 pennies... Time to check the ol piggy bank. :)

ANYWAY- back on topic- What's the huge problem with this anyway? As stated, it's mostly the lower levels who die anyway.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 08:36:05 PM »
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.
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peluscious

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 08:48:03 PM »
Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

Wow. That solves everything. Great idea!
Way easier than asking for a change of rules and scripts.
I'm not a taker, but that solves all the complaints.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 08:48:50 PM »
Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

Wow. That solves everything. Great idea!
Way easier than asking for a change of rules and scripts.
I'm not a taker, but that solves all the complaints.

My point exactly.   :mrgreen:
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failed.bard

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 09:19:15 PM »
  Swapping Lizuca's greater restoration for the normal restoration, and changing heal to cure critical would have very little impact on low level characters, and would make more sense for her to be handing out freely.  If Liz has healing domain, it would be an empowered cure critical, which is enough for most any character 4th level and under.
  I also think there should be a pause in the convo before she heals people.  I see quite a few people run in, get healed, and run out, without being in the temple 5 seconds total.

dae24

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 09:44:27 PM »
now THAT is a problem. today i saw someone use this in the middle of pvp. oops im near death so ill run through liz's drive through express healing service. come in the side door, and he probably got healed before anyone else could make it through the area transition.

+1 for a pause just for that reason.

peluscious

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 09:57:37 PM »
now THAT is a problem. today i saw someone use this in the middle of pvp. oops im near death so ill run through liz's drive through express healing service. come in the side door, and he probably got healed before anyone else could make it through the area transition.

+1 for a pause just for that reason.

That is a problem. But it's not Lizuca's fault.
Leave her as it is.
The solution to that situation is to send a tell to the player and explain to him that what he's doing is awful.
Probably wouldn't even need a screeny.

puckwolf

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 10:01:24 PM »
Definitely, running inside to get healed during a pvp situation is *uncool* and poor gaming etiquette

Kung Fu Orc

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 12:14:19 AM »
This has been brought up before, in these exact words as a matter of fact. The consensus then was it's a game, not a simulator.

People who drive through heal should be dealt with but leave the res system alone, it's necessary. Please, no S&M roleplay.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 12:17:54 AM by Kung Fu Orc »

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