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Author Topic: Liz is overpowered.  (Read 9057 times)

shadymerchant

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2009, 12:26:03 AM »
 Swapping Lizuca's greater restoration for the normal restoration, and changing heal to cure critical would have very little impact on low level characters, and would make more sense for her to be handing out freely.  If Liz has healing domain, it would be an empowered cure critical, which is enough for most any character 4th level and under.
  I also think there should be a pause in the convo before she heals people.  I see quite a few people run in, get healed, and run out, without being in the temple 5 seconds total.

The problem with a critical heal as opposed to a full heal is that then you're half healed infront of Liz. So naturally you trigger the dialogue and continue the process until you're fully healed.

And level drain cannot be restored with a normal restoration to my knowledge. It requires a greater restoration. Liz is the servers answer to making POTM life less frustrating. People use her a lot because she's a pretty good answer to it. Changing it, for all intents and purposes, is saying "let's frustrate folks a bit more so my experience is better." This is a tough server as it is, and the roleplay is amazing in many of the cases. Focus on that.

failed.bard

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2009, 12:31:12 AM »
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2009, 12:48:39 AM »
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2009, 01:28:28 AM »
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs

arrmuth

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2009, 01:31:28 AM »
On a Tolkien server i used  to play on when you died you spent x amount of time in the everafter.You had a randomized percentage of being rezzed and it  was checked every ingame hour. When your number came up  you respawned at the nearest temple,safe place,etc etc..with rezz sickness.  

arrmuth

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2009, 01:35:08 AM »
Quote
There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.

I had to see this again.   :thumbup:

 :thumbup:

arrmuth

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2009, 01:37:45 AM »
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place.  
What changes were made to GS? I cant seem to find the info on what was changed.

failed.bard

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2009, 02:43:56 AM »
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs

  Back when attacks by PC monsters were more common, most people that were mauled but left alive simply walked into the temple, got a greater restoration, and pretended nothing had ever happened.  It was pretty disheartening, really.
  The spell doesn't actually specifically say it restores missing limb, is says it removes all physical ailments and restores to full health, I believe.  Considering it shouldn't resore lost HPs even (another random spell change by Bioware), it would be nice to have a DMs opinion on if it would restore lost limbs or night.  Bearing in mind, of course, that DMs have used it with Lizuca in the past to restore lost limbs on PCs.

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2009, 02:58:34 AM »
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place.  
What changes were made to GS? I cant seem to find the info on what was changed.


Apparently, there is no official announcement.  Some changes were discussed in a few posts in a thread:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196732#msg196732

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196754#msg196754

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196725#msg196725

Somewhere in that discussion is the changes that were made to GS. 
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ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2009, 03:01:26 AM »
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs

  Back when attacks by PC monsters were more common, most people that were mauled but left alive simply walked into the temple, got a greater restoration, and pretended nothing had ever happened.  It was pretty disheartening, really.
  The spell doesn't actually specifically say it restores missing limb, is says it removes all physical ailments and restores to full health, I believe.  Considering it shouldn't resore lost HPs even (another random spell change by Bioware), it would be nice to have a DMs opinion on if it would restore lost limbs or night.  Bearing in mind, of course, that DMs have used it with Lizuca in the past to restore lost limbs on PCs.

Whenever there was a case of restoring lost limbs, it was always with the combo of Greater Restoration AND Regeneration. 

And whatever else made for nice fireworks and pretty lights. 
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Budly

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2009, 03:46:40 AM »
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:

hugolino

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Re: Death realm and Liz the healbot
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2009, 04:26:09 AM »
"On a Tolkien server i used  to play on when you died you spent x amount of time in the everafter.You had a randomized percentage of being rezzed and it  was checked every ingame hour. When your number came up  you respawned at the nearest temple,safe place,etc etc..with rezz sickness."

I like that idea better than our current system, but I'm biased... One of my characters rarely is resurrected by anyone and so is forced to respawn after nearly all of his deaths. Perhaps not coincidentally he rarely dies any more despite only being level 6, but he manages that by excessive caution and risk avoidance (especially when DMs are around).

I should also note that, due to frequent respawning in the past, his level advancement has been quite slow, and -- due to his current wariness -- continues to be so.

EDIT: Spoke to soon. Just died. Yay!  Respawn. :(  But at least my weapon didn't drop.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 05:46:04 AM by hugolino »

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2009, 04:26:31 AM »
I've rp'd regeneration as a ritualistic procedure mixed with some surgery on one occasion thus far.  It was to repair a rather disturbing wooden barrel segment fused with flesh to create a lung. That's the sort of side effects that happen when mad dok in the drain brings a pc back to life.  It was pure rp and there's really no need in my opinion for an npc change to force what already exists on the server.

  On the issue of running at near death for a full heal and dashing back out to leap back into the fray in a matter of seconds, well, poor gaming etiquette is just that, and there's no script that can change something which resides within the player, not the game.


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Vokan

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2009, 05:40:15 AM »
On the topic of Regeneration of limbs - generally, you need the limb itself and re-attach it with a regeneration/healing spell. That's usually how it works in D&D. So, say you got your head chopped off in combat, you'd need your head, and your body, and stick 'em together and heal. Same goes for arms, legs, etc, unless by miraculous resurrection, which, by my understanding, can reform a body from ashes.

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2009, 06:33:47 AM »
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2009, 06:49:27 AM »
 :ohnoes:  OMFG  Liz should get Unlimited Greater Ruin   :wakka: to kill everything evil! LOOOOL!    :sugoi: 



 :wtf:



... yeah I havent really slept propperly for in like 4-5 days. Anywhooo, I think she's fine as she is now, just add a replacement for the night-shift  :_Nod__by_Xrodias:
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Aahz

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2009, 09:29:02 AM »
On the topic of Regeneration of limbs - generally, you need the limb itself and re-attach it with a regeneration/healing spell. That's usually how it works in D&D. So, say you got your head chopped off in combat, you'd need your head, and your body, and stick 'em together and heal. Same goes for arms, legs, etc, unless by miraculous resurrection, which, by my understanding, can reform a body from ashes.

I was under the impression that you did not need the limb. Regeneration would just re-grow the appendage. Getting your head removed however would require a resurrection spell. Regeneration would not work on a head (or a dead body for that matter) and I do not believe that Raise dead will work unless the major parts of the body are intact.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2009, 11:40:35 AM by Aahz »
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vlowe72

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2009, 09:43:14 AM »
From personal experience... Liz was unable to regenerate an eye by herself, we had to call in several high level clerics to get it taken care of.  DM event, granted, but still...

Here's an idea...  After Liz does some high level healing say X amount of HP or restore or what not, she has to go and pray and recover for a while.  That would slow down the "healing express train" for a while, but not eliminate it all together.

I tell you, the few times that Liz has gone awol, it's pretty amusing to watch all the pc's milling about the temple singing the song of laments.  "No healing for us.  Woe is me!"

Then someone like Nonna steps up to the plate.  Hilarity ensues.  :)

I think the best RP comes about when you take something that's been a certain way forever and change it a bit.

And now ladies and gentlemen comes the time where I relieve you of the burden of your failed and useless lives.  But if you gotta go, go with a smile!

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2009, 10:27:38 AM »
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:

You want harsh?  Show us how it works.   :P
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ducky445544

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2009, 10:31:59 AM »
From personal experience... Liz was unable to regenerate an eye by herself, we had to call in several high level clerics to get it taken care of.  DM event, granted, but still...

Here's an idea...  After Liz does some high level healing say X amount of HP or restore or what not, she has to go and pray and recover for a while.  That would slow down the "healing express train" for a while, but not eliminate it all together.

I tell you, the few times that Liz has gone awol, it's pretty amusing to watch all the pc's milling about the temple singing the song of laments.  "No healing for us.  Woe is me!"

Then someone like Nonna steps up to the plate.  Hilarity ensues.  :)

I think the best RP comes about when you take something that's been a certain way forever and change it a bit.

Ahh, yes... Good times.  :lol:


Budly

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2009, 11:26:03 AM »
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:

You want harsh?  Show us how it works.   :P

Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's :D

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2009, 11:28:34 AM »
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:
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Rex

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2009, 11:37:23 AM »
I'd settle for a timer between NPC cleric castings, just to cull down that god awful annoying "Sprint to Liz at Near Dead get Healed Rest and Return to the Fight!" garbage.  Night replacement would be interesting.

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2009, 11:54:55 AM »
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:

Yay i contributed something :P  :lol:

ThAnswr

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Re: Liz is overpowered.
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2009, 12:16:08 PM »
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:

Yay i contributed something :P  :lol:

POTM's resident Chuck Norris always contributes something.   :mrgreen:
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