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Author Topic: Black Tentacle Spell Bug  (Read 3485 times)

Vokan

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2009, 08:09:50 AM »
The main issue with Evards isn't so much its basic form. When Evards is empowered, that's when it becomes ridiculous - and this is why. When you cast the spell, it multiplies the # of tentacles and the damage each tentacle does. That's 184 damage a round at level 20, in an AoE. Forget the paralysis DC, that's an entire party of level 20's in two rounds if aimed right (Unless one of them is a halfling/gnome, in which case, finger of death ololol) So, magic resist won't save you, the empowerment will overcome fighter BAB, and even if you're rockin' ethereal visage, it'll still crush you.

Also, Gust of Wind would be useless against it. 1.69 made it so Gust of Wind only effects 'cloud-like' AoEs - cloudkill, stinking cloud, acid fog, etc.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 08:30:16 AM by Vokan »

Bad_Bud

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2009, 08:33:40 AM »
The main issue with Evards isn't so much its basic form. When Evards is empowered, that's when it becomes ridiculous - and this is why. When you cast the spell, it multiplies the # of tentacles and the damage each tentacle does. That's 184 damage a round at level 20, in an AoE. Forget the paralysis DC, that's an entire party of level 20's in two rounds if aimed right (Unless one of them is a halfling/gnome, in which case, finger of death ololol) So, magic resist won't save you, the empowerment will overcome fighter BAB, and even if you're rockin' ethereal visage, it'll still crush you.

Also, Gust of Wind would be useless against it. 1.69 made it so Gust of Wind only effects 'cloud-like' AoEs - cloudkill, stinking cloud, acid fog, etc.

You're not counting any kind of damage resistance, or the fact that there are only a certain number of tentacles available.  The more people in the evard's, the less its supposed to do to each target.  It might totally own a level 20 unbuffed mage, but what wouldn't?  :P

I've personally never seen anyone use evard's in PvP anyway.  Probably because it's not very reliable.

failed.bard

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2009, 08:38:16 AM »
  The damage from the tentacles are applied individually.  Evards won't touch someone with ethereal visage cast, or even shadowshield, for that matter, even if it's empowered.

Vokan

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2009, 08:49:58 AM »
True, empowered it's (1d6+4)x1.5, max of 15 damage.

However, you're getting between 32 and 36 tentacles. That's a lot of tentacles. Assuming you've got 4 party members, that's still a potential of 135 damage to each party member every round that they are within the tentacles. For a level "6" spell, not too shabby. This is also assuming the wizard was stupid and didn't open with a mord or greater dispell, sure, the bard/other wizard may live. Assuming the entire party has a brawler's belt or item to that effect(because they are so common post-grandfathered Ravenloft), that brings it down to the normal 5 damage. A stoneskin will also help, but will break very quickly, since it's just HP.

This spell is ridiculously deadly when used by the right hands, because it lasts so long, and is a fairly low level spell, so it is spammable even when empowered. In a high-magic setting, the spell is fairly underwhelming because everyone can get 15 DR that isn't breakable, but in a low magic setting like Ravenloft, prepare for tentacle rape. That, and the majority of people are below level 15... even in the hands of a relatively low level wizard, the spell is still really scary. A level 11 wizard, capable of casting Evard's empowered - he still can get 22 tentacles, as if he was casting the spell at level 20 regularly. Not bad at all.

But hey, if you don't believe me...
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 08:53:56 AM by Vokan »

failed.bard

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2009, 09:02:55 AM »
  I'm not saying it's not an effective spell.  I love the succubus simply because it spams party killing evards.  The spell was broken before the 1.69 patch, where it was applied in a lump sum based on the damage from all the tentacles, now, it's just dangerous, as opposed to instantly lethal.

  Does the damage from this spell affect the caster, if they're inside it?  The original post was a vampire using it, and their DR would absorb it all, so I can't tell off of that.  If the caster is immune it would definately be imbalanced.  Sort of a paralyzing damage shield, if that's the case.

Vokan

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2009, 09:16:00 AM »
 I'm not saying it's not an effective spell.  I love the succubus simply because it spams party killing evards.  The spell was broken before the 1.69 patch, where it was applied in a lump sum based on the damage from all the tentacles, now, it's just dangerous, as opposed to instantly lethal.

  Does the damage from this spell affect the caster, if they're inside it?  The original post was a vampire using it, and their DR would absorb it all, so I can't tell off of that.  If the caster is immune it would definately be imbalanced.  Sort of a paralyzing damage shield, if that's the case.

Yes, you can sit in it. That's what the vampire mages do, and they are AI. A player should be smart enough to pull that one off too. You'd need ethereal visage, which is a pretty easy spell to get - but no caster should be without that anyway. [ Unless you have premonition and displacement, in which case it is redundant]
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 09:30:55 AM by Vokan »

Amon-Si

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2009, 10:01:38 AM »
I don't find this spell at all frightening.
Had it cast on Alana once...
It held her for 2 rounds, did about 3 damage, then she walked free and nailed the caster and her sneaker support (both of them being of higher level) What is there to fear, children? There are ways and counterways. The second every mage on the server relies on evards is the day any given fighter buys a freedom potion and stomps on their pretty little faces.  :twisted:

Simple rules: Prepared mage beats most things. Remove or nerf Evards? Go ahead, none of my witches will even notice lol.

mayvind

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2009, 11:11:20 AM »
caster not immune to it.... no imbalance here is useful spell on those that have no Damage reduction.  but can ruin caster as well so it is very careful cast spell. I only use spell in RP situation when i dont want people to persue me i cast it to block the path.

robbythedude

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2009, 04:01:24 PM »
caster not immune to it.... no imbalance here is useful spell on those that have no Damage reduction.  but can ruin caster as well so it is very careful cast spell. I only use spell in RP situation when i dont want people to persue me i cast it to block the path.

Yup, the caster of the spell even takes damage also!
I cast Evards one time and it was a little close...
Got stunned two times, and died right after the second stun!

shadymerchant

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Re: Black Tentacle Spell Bug
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2009, 12:50:08 AM »
It certainly does damage the caster. I nearly killed myself experimenting with it quite a few times. It's a powerful spell, a fact that I was entirely ignorant of since I'd played a gnome so long. Gnomes got a nice ace of their sleeve with that immunity.

It's a difficult spell to use effectively though. Between DR, people moving from the location, and the ability to avoid walking into it all together, you really need special circumstances to make it work. Magiko used it to ambush a high level party as they rushed into a room once, killing all but the strongest members of the party all together. It was his battlefield and he could make it work. I'd say that makes it one of the best, and most enjoyable spells in the game.