PVP... why I Hesitate.

[k_moustakas]

Just wait until somebody starts calling you names and when you murder them, send you a tell 'You don't take into account my feelings' lol

[Baboon]

Just wait until somebody starts calling you names and when you murder them, send you a tell 'You don't take into account my feelings' lol

I've had it happen.  It's why that shadowdancing wererat never appears in the outskirts of Vallaki anymore..... it's way too much OOC drama over just trying to bring a little eeriness to the night.

[Aahz]

Not wanting PvP dosen't give you Greater Sanctuary. But the amount of times I've seen people actually begin to mess with and begin fights with guards over HOOD CHECKS, is ridiculous. It's like prodding a bull with a stick. People laugh at it, but then act suprised when the bull turns and tramples them. Don't want to be trampled? Don't prod it!

When I see people do that it always reminds me of the "poke the bunny" flashgame

http://www.gamershood.com/flashgames/3703

[vlowe72]

* stay inside and hug each other singing ale song.

In my opinion, that would cause More PVP, not less.

[LoLJohnFerro]

Just saying PVP shuold only be used when needed and when you have angry underworld armys dont go beating up some guy if he doesnt want to rp with you...

[That damn elf]

Everyone brings valid points to this thread. The most important, I feel, is to just keep things as IC as possible. There is always hesitance when dealing with PvP situations, but the sense of consequence on this server is at an unprecedented low. And that saddens me. The earlier years of this server were lower in population, but when PvP happened we just rolled with the punches and tried to show some etiquette. Id never even heard of a rollback, especially involving multiple players, until recently. It is a legitimate game engine and exactly how PnP roleplay situations would be solved. Just remember:

There are consequences to everything you do and say. Everything. And on a gothic horror server they should be more severe and fear inspiring. As attached as we get, it dulls out experience knowing that our characters are, in essence, invincible. It has to stop. Lawful Joe said it best...The adrenaline rush and actual RP byproduct of a single PvP encounter can be enormous, and now it is too bureaucratized and painful to deal with OOC.

[LawfulJoe]

I am not saying not to RP, but what I am seeing over my time on the CC is what seems like a court case for PVP instances.

If you refer to exibit A, you can clearly see from the following screenshot that I have a legitimate reason shown by the insult thrown at my familiar "Bootsy" the bat. I hit said victim with a Hellball after they refered to "Bootsy" as small and insignificant winged rodent. I feel my reason was legitimate.

Then we get another post with the victims screenshots

This is rediculous, he did not set me to hostile then RP for enough time prior to nuking my PC, which was totally over the top. I think he hates me OOC, as you can see he did not respond to my tells aksing why he did that as you can clearly see from exhibit B.

I want this to be fun... and I would like to see cases in the CC that are clearly a violation. Attacks without being set to Hostile, Killed randomly with absolutely no RP, griefing, Attackers logging out to avoid being caught, vicitms logging out to avoid getting dead... etc.

I want to see dynamic RP leading up to a showdown or an assassination with the focus on the story not on whether you RPed enough or gave enough time after setting them to hostile before attacking. If we would just remember that this is supposed to be a game and for fun, maybe we will stop worrying about getting called to the ship or a PVP complaint made about your 20th level PC Necromancer killing someone for body parts in their attempted creation of a monster and just play out the situations that are thrown at us.

I play when DMs are fast asleep usually, if it was not for player driven plots, both PVP aand personal, There would be almost nothing except dungeoning to do. Nothing against the DMs, hell we all have to sleep sometime, just saying it makes for a smotther story and play if we would communicate more. For example. If you are set to dislike by a PC, send them a Tell, and ask, "what's up?", if they tell you something along the lines of, "Nothing personal OOC, this has to do with you having an affair with my IC wife", or  "I have reasons IC to hunt your PC, nothing personal, just business " and leave it at that. That should be enough of a reason IC for the victim to know. If you have to go into detail about who hired your PC to assassinate the victims PC and the reasons why... I think it takes away the thrill of investigating the Whos and Whys after the attack, If you survive or get raised.

I guess to Sum up, it seems we are too focused on the "Crap I'm Dead" part which seems to translate into "I lost" where we should be focused on the "Wow, I just got killed, I wonder why?" feeling instead of the frustration of getting killed in PVP. Trust me, When and IF Thraxys gets killed I will be disappointed, but if it is a well played out assassination or even a secret plot behind my back that came to a close with my PCs death, I will get past it and move on to my next character, or if I am raised, I will seek out revenge, and piece together the mystery of the plot kill my Drow. It is all IC and good RP.

[LawfulJoe]

Everyone brings valid points to this thread. The most important, I feel, is to just keep things as IC as possible. There is always hesitance when dealing with PvP situations, but the sense of consequence on this server is at an unprecedented low. And that saddens me. The earlier years of this server were lower in population, but when PvP happened we just rolled with the punches and tried to show some etiquette. Id never even heard of a rollback, especially involving multiple players, until recently. It is a legitimate game engine and exactly how PnP roleplay situations would be solved. Just remember:

There are consequences to everything you do and say. Everything. And on a gothic horror server they should be more severe and fear inspiring. As attached as we get, it dulls out experience knowing that our characters are, in essence, invincible. It has to stop. Lawful Joe said it best...The adrenaline rush and actual RP byproduct of a single PvP encounter can be enormous, and now it is too bureaucratized and painful to deal with OOC.

Well Said... take responsibility for your actions, and except the consequences. If you taunt the big barbarian, expect his axe in your head (that one was for Kayne )

[DarkWyvern]

As a reminder though

"Because I am Evil" "Because he looked at me funny" "I don't like how he dresses" and other such examples are not justifiable for PvP Smackdown.

Which as a DM I have been seeing a lot of lately, and which we DMs have to continuously sort out which takes time away from us bringing you good stories and plots.

[Chrisman888]

The earlier years of this server were lower in population, but when PvP happened we just rolled with the punches and tried to show some etiquette. Id never even heard of a rollback, especially involving multiple players, until recently.

Ah yea defiantly agree here.


~ Chris

[LawfulJoe]

As a reminder though

"Because I am Evil" "Because he looked at me funny" "I don't like how he dresses" and other such examples are not justifiable for PvP Smackdown.

Which as a DM I have been seeing a lot of lately, and which we DMs have to continuously sort out which takes time away from us bringing you good stories and plots.

yeah... Been a DM before, and there is nothing like a PVP dispute to take the wind out of your sails. Keep that in mind folks, If you have a complaint, make sure it is something you could not as easily have worked out with the other PC one on one. Everytime a DM or DMs are talking to people on the Ship is time they are not plotting fun stuff for us to do.

By the way, thank you DMs for putting up with the unfun as well as the fun sides of the game.

[Zedrik]

I don't go out looking for PvP, and on most of my characters I tend to avoid it as much as possible, but when i made Werner, I accepted the fact that his attitude was going to attract attention of the hostile variety rather often. Now that he sits on the other side of the level/power spectrum, I tend to give people every chance to leave the situation. If they don't, they get what they deserve.

[mayvind]

As a reminder though

"Because I am Evil" "Because he looked at me funny" "I don't like how he dresses" and other such examples are not justifiable for PvP Smackdown.

But but ! he looked at me funny are justify in many bar fight i been too !  And people back home use to smack people who dresses funny !, And Ted, and all seriekiller they are evil and dont need much excuse to kill do they ?

But yeah i understand what you mean but those you mention can be RP to extend that lead to PvP. And it is true in my youth we usually get into fight just because they looked at us funny....

[ThAnswr]

As a reminder though

"Because I am Evil" "Because he looked at me funny" "I don't like how he dresses" and other such examples are not justifiable for PvP Smackdown.

But but ! he looked at me funny are justify in many bar fight i been too !  And people back home use to smack people who dresses funny !, And Ted, and all seriekiller they are evil and dont need much excuse to kill do they ?

But yeah i understand what you mean but those you mention can be RP to extend that lead to PvP. And it is true in my youth we usually get into fight just because they looked at us funny....

PvP doesn't always have to end with death.  PvP can be a wonderful RP moment also. 

There are only 2 chars Calor has ever PvP'd with and one of them was Yves.  We both walked away, although one of us was limping badly.   

[Zedrik]

PvP doesn't always have to end with death.  PvP can be a wonderful RP moment also. 

There are only 2 chars Calor has ever PvP'd with and one of them was Yves.  We both walked away, although one of us was limping badly.   

Honestly, Werner would rather have people walk away with a lesson learned (Don't poke the Warbird. He bites.) than have them dead.

[ThAnswr]

PvP doesn't always have to end with death.  PvP can be a wonderful RP moment also. 

There are only 2 chars Calor has ever PvP'd with and one of them was Yves.  We both walked away, although one of us was limping badly.   

Honestly, Werner would rather have people walk away with a lesson learned (Don't poke the Warbird. He bites.) than have them dead.

We're just a couple of softies at heart.   

[darkravenkin]

Personality when I started I only like Rp fights. Yes they can be trouble if both players dont like the dodge, str and touch attacks rolls. But it avoided alot of ooc problems.

But when the sub duel tool was added I was thrilled. I mean I know its off topic but death is taken lightly. You fight, someone dies but then they are rased. Its never sat well with me. But then if you sub duel them in a PVP then it stops alot of greif.

Bare handed sub dueling is easy to say. "Beaten to a bloody pulp". With a sword your either hitting them with the flat of the blade or they are heavly wounded.

Another thing is that it avoides the whole burning of the body or killing people for there gear or gold. I mean weapons are every where for people and theres enough gold for everyone. Now even Ive agreed to being attacked and robbed so that there are no hard feelings. But just for me, killing someone and wanting to strip the body of everything is just greedy.

Now with magic its not like you can sub duel a spell. But I play mostly play fighter based chars so i wont make a oppion on that. But in cases where someone is pushing for a fight then I suggest sending a pm of saying "Im going to sub duel this." If the person agrees then good. Each gets a fight and then the only issues are in game ones.

There's always going to problems where some times you either don't get the chance to click the sub duel or in cases of a guard having to shot at a fleeing person.

But this is just how i try to deal with things. Insted of getting ready to kill the first caliban, monster pc, guard or what ever your pc hates, rp it out in away that is good for all. Yes we all want to be on top but we are also setting a example for new players and also trying to make a game more enjoyable for everyone. We can't make everyone happy but at least we can think of making fun for the other person first and then think of our selves after

[DarkWyvern]

As a reminder though

"Because I am Evil" "Because he looked at me funny" "I don't like how he dresses" and other such examples are not justifiable for PvP Smackdown.

But but ! he looked at me funny are justify in many bar fight i been too !  And people back home use to smack people who dresses funny !, And Ted, and all seriekiller they are evil and dont need much excuse to kill do they ?

But yeah i understand what you mean but those you mention can be RP to extend that lead to PvP. And it is true in my youth we usually get into fight just because they looked at us funny....

Maybe so, but its in the PvP rules that it's not justification for PvPing someone.. so just bear it in mind

[LawfulJoe]

heh... this thread has made me long for the simplicity of PnP.

Barack: That's it, I attack Pavo the rogue! He won't shut up!
DM: You attack him?
Pavo: You attack me?
Barack: Yes! Prepare to die Ogre bait.
Pavo: Okay... *Slips the DM a Note*
DM: *reads the note and snickers* roll the dice
(Barack attack roll: 3 Pavo Rolls an 18)
Barack: Damn!
Pavo : HA! you suck!
DM: *chuckling* You attracted the attention of the guard... they are making their way through the croud in your general direction.
Barack: Crap!
Pavo: Crap, I hide the pouch I just took off of Barack while he was attacking.
Barack: what?! You jerk *laughs*
DM: You have about 10 second before the guard get to you.
Barack and Pavo: Let's get out of here!

Oh the good ole days...   goofy, fun, good RP, and no committee to decide if the attack was legit. You said it you did it... but that does not work in Online Gaming.

[Grieyls]

heh... this thread has made me long for the simplicity of PnP.

Barack: That's it, I attack Pavo the rogue! He won't shut up!
DM: You attack him?
Pavo: You attack me?
Barack: Yes! Prepare to die Ogre bait.
Pavo: Okay... *Slips the DM a Note*
DM: *reads the note and snickers* roll the dice
(Barack attack roll: 3 Pavo Rolls an 18)
Barack: Damn!
Pavo : HA! you suck!
DM: *chuckling* You attracted the attention of the guard... they are making their way through the croud in your general direction.
Barack: Crap!
Pavo: Crap, I hide the pouch I just took off of Barack while he was attacking.
Barack: what?! You jerk *laughs*
DM: You have about 10 second before the guard get to you.
Barack and Pavo: Let's get out of here!

Oh the good ole days...   goofy, fun, good RP, and no committee to decide if the attack was legit. You said it you did it... but that does not work in Online Gaming.

  Ah yes... PnP goodness. Have many fond memories of games just like that...

Have to say though, the few times one of my Chars was involved in a PVP situation there was no to little RP before, during, or even after. Each time left me feeling cheated and annoyed. Since then I've made pains to avoid each and every one which is sad really. 

[LoLJohnFerro]

To be honest I hate pvp beacuse it only happens by higher levels if I pvp I atleast give the other person a chance or i emote that ifthey screw with me I will rock them
I tried of level 10+ giving james,zack and john the smack down.

[Rex]

It doesn't pay to hesitate anymore.  It just gets you killed especially if the other person is a caster they just wander off and Prep, then return, then go hostile and obliterate you.  You're only option as a non caster, is to stab them in the face the second you get the itch and start wailing on them with every trick you have.  Keep in mind, if you use a feat, you will be crucified for it, but all's fair on the other side for using things you have no defense against, nor ever will have a defense against due to the item structure of the server.

I'd be more then happy to "RP" out the fight but the proper mechanics and player knowledge are not there and obnoxious things like Dodge, ARE there.  To much time and hassle to duplicate something that takes 30 seconds with just using the engine.

In short, if you are playing something that would stab someone in the face for looking at you cross eyed.  Stab them.

~Rex

[LawfulJoe]

It doesn't pay to hesitate anymore.  It just gets you killed especially if the other person is a caster they just wander off and Prep, then return, then go hostile and obliterate you.  You're only option as a non caster, is to stab them in the face the second you get the itch and start wailing on them with every trick you have.  Keep in mind, if you use a feat, you will be crucified for it, but all's fair on the other side for using things you have no defense against, nor ever will have a defense against due to the item structure of the server.

I'd be more then happy to "RP" out the fight but the proper mechanics and player knowledge are not there and obnoxious things like Dodge, ARE there.  To much time and hassle to duplicate something that takes 30 seconds with just using the engine.

In short, if you are playing something that would stab someone in the face for looking at you cross eyed.  Stab them.

~Rex

heh, yes... stab them in the face, that makes me laugh. Just make sure you at least let the person to be stabbed know in an OOC tell... this is going to get ugly... and switch them to hostile before the facial surgery begins RP is good too...

Here's a question then, in everyones opinion, what is a satifactory amount of RP prior to PvP? Is it a "That's it, your a dead man!" or  do you need to engage in a full blown conversation full of insults and accusations? 

What if something happened to someone earlier in the day that you are ICly protective of, friend, lover, familiy, adopted child etc. How much RP is needed prior to going balistic when you see the antagonist?

If people know what is expected by the majority of PCs, maybe this will lessen the PvP complaints and increase peoples enjoyment of the game.

[Minstrel]

Here's a question then, in everyones opinion, what is a satifactory amount of RP prior to PvP? Is it a "That's it, your a dead man!" or  do you need to engage in a full blown conversation full of insults and accusations? 

I'd personally say 'A chance'. A chance to talk the agressor down, a chance to beg for mercy, pay them off if they're an assassin, etc.

If they take this chance and have their character spit in your eye, go for it. They've spat in the face of death, which is badass, but also suicidal.

If they take this chance and have their character do anything to get alive, literally grabbing at any way to stay alive (As the human mind is somewhat pre-programmed to do), then take it from there. This might be invalid if your reason for killing them is revenge (That character killed your closest friend), but then they've sort of bought themselves into the deep waters of CvC.

What -would- annoy me is if while a chance is being given to someone, they take the chance to cast, drink potions, etc, despite having the agressor stood over them prepared to kill them if they so much as twitch. If they do do that, it's pretty much granted that you cut them to ribbons.

[failed.bard]

  An assassin, literally, has to get the first swing in.  If they give the person a chance to talk, they're also giving them a chance to take the first attack.
  They're also taking a chance on being flesh to stoned, or something of the like with no counter except SR.
  It's the one class that doesn't really have an option of talking first in a PvP situation.