Masterwork Weapons

[Aldabreck Stone Helm]

the idea of platinum gliding is a good one and it will not be a very common weapon. Like Rali to glide silver weapons I need to go up to levels in the craft on failures alone. If the dc for the platinum gliding was at say 30 or to get it right you would need to reach a 35 the first time before you could get it.That and acquiring Platinum is not an easy chore. A crafter would need to realy dedicate himself to the craft and find all sorts a means to get the ore. The weapon would be a good one for sure but something that would not be readily available at all.If any thing I say try it and if it seems to over powered then it's easy enough to destroy.The demonoligists could have tainted the ore and it breaks down after so long.

[Jana]

I think people are getting side tracked and slightly off topic. This thread was proposed with a +1 enchantment. Not a +1 AB +insert damage die here. When I proposed this I thought of it more as a replacement for steel on top, not a replacement for silver.

[failed.bard]

  I think my smith Wilhelm has a +21 on his gilding roll.  Even needing a 14 for the first on, with being able to get 6+ platinum from the rock, he's going to succeed off the first batch of platinum, and will succeed better than half the time after that.

  I think I prefer Jana's suggestion to a gilded option.  If the items were smithed requiring a platinum ingot in addition to the steel ones, or even better if a higher grade steel alloy could be smelted, I think that would be preferable.  Having a generic AB bonus in addition to the damage adder would put it in excess of most of the magic items in game, so it would need to be carefully considered before it gets implimented.

[dutchy]

its simple if its called master crafted then it should be able to be crafted.

now for bonuses it should provide that is up to the devolepers what they see fit for the balance but, i think it would be good to have crafters be more usefull then steel and gilded weps.

it would also indeed take care of alot of questions for more diversety among the weapons we have.
example:
longswords have a few difrant ones that have +1  and some add ons
handaxe   cant think of any

but with that add on for crafter  the handaxe suddenly becomes usefull and poeple will and CAN chooce from a broader veriety of weapons and that my fellow prisoners is always a good thing.

(even rex cant dismiss that fact)

[Rex]

its simple if its called master crafted then it should be able to be crafted.

now for bonuses it should provide that is up to the devolepers what they see fit for the balance but, i think it would be good to have crafters be more usefull then steel and gilded weps.

it would also indeed take care of alot of questions for more diversety among the weapons we have.
example:
longswords have a few difrant ones that have +1  and some add ons
handaxe   cant think of any

but with that add on for crafter  the handaxe suddenly becomes usefull and poeple will and CAN chooce from a broader veriety of weapons and that my fellow prisoners is always a good thing.

(even rex cant dismiss that fact)

If you dig back far enough in the crafting threads you will find "Rex's" idea on how to balance it out in comparison to the (alleged) magic items in the game up to and including various types of guilding and master crafting.

~Rex

[LoLJohnFerro]

It should be you get a master crafted when you roll a crit in smithing.

[Mcskinns]

It should be you get a master crafted when you roll a crit in smithing.

Trouble with this is....

sometimes the only way you can succeed at making something is to roll a natural 20.  It doesn't make sense to make a masterworked item on a first-second try sort of thing.


To make the items more rare and thusly more special.... maybe give a 1% per point rolled over DC to craft for the item to be considered mastercrafted.  Or even per point over (DC+5) or something

[LoLJohnFerro]

Hmm then we would have masterwork copper weapons poping up everywhere.

[Mcskinns]

Hmm then we would have masterwork copper weapons poping up everywhere.

while they could be made, they would still carry a lot of negatives, and would probably not be overly sought after.

[Kaspar]

Curious. What does the name "Masterwork" on an item mean exactly? Have one on a Katana I have and I can't figure out if it's just there as a label, or if it has special properties.

[hugolino]

I would suggest that natural Masterwork crafts require an unmodified base roll of 20 AND the total roll (with crafting levels included) must be at least 10 higher than the minimum roll to make the item.

[Emomina]

The PnP explanation:

Masterwork Weapons

A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

You can’t add the masterwork quality to a weapon after it is created; it must be crafted as a masterwork weapon (see the Craft skill). The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition). Adding the masterwork quality to a double weapon costs twice the normal increase (+600 gp).

Masterwork ammunition is damaged (effectively destroyed) when used. The enhancement bonus of masterwork ammunition does not stack with any enhancement bonus of the projectile weapon firing it.

All magic weapons are automatically considered to be of masterwork quality. The enhancement bonus granted by the masterwork quality doesn’t stack with the enhancement bonus provided by the weapon’s magic.

Even though some types of armor and shields can be used as weapons, you can’t create a masterwork version of such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack rolls. Instead, masterwork armor and shields have lessened armor check penalties.

So just like my post toward the beginning of the conversation, I just could not understand all the hoopla over this suggestion ruining anything. That Masterwork Katana that your character has is identical in weight, damage output, weapon type etc etc.  The only difference is that its crafter made it with a little more skill and luck, and represents the finest crafted example of a katana blade, and there for grants a +1 on the attack roll. That is it. That is why MW should be craftable. I have always imagined that a MW weapon looks identical, but if you held it just "felt right"; the balance of the blade just impeccable and therefore slightly more effective in combat.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

An issue with that is that NWN considers +1 AB as +1 enchantment in regards to penetrating damage resistance. Another concern with the masterwork principle is that it could make it even harder for new crafters to emerge, since it would take even longer before the could become good enough to provide items that would be reasonably sellable. If it relied on a completely random factor too, it would also urge people to harvest resources and craft them more excessively to hit that one 20 (or whatever it would be).

If anything, I would have masterwork quality be something that might not be a significant bonus, such as more weight reduction, but mainly exist as a novelty.

[hugolino]

"If anything, I would have masterwork quality be something that might not be a significant bonus, such as more weight reduction, but mainly exist as a novelty."

Perhaps a masterwork weapon would have a slightly higher resale value at stores? Instead of being worth 1 fang it might be worth... um.... 2 fangs?

Oh, and bragging rights. The masterwork weapon has to come with bragging rights.

[Emomina]

An issue with that is that NWN considers +1 AB as +1 enchantment in regards to penetrating damage resistance.

Søren just cleared up the whole thing in my eyes. Bioware made too many silly errors like this which due diligence could have corrected, its not like the patch cycle of NWN was short, it lasted years. So if I understand you right Søren, you can overcome the damage reduction 5/+1 of the shadows in the forest with a MW weapon?? If so, masterwork weapons have a lot more value in my eyes now. Need to keep the next MW katana i find.

 Still, the original thought of having more MW of the rarer weapon types is still very valid. Put some MW handaxes and MW kama etc and dare I say MW shuriken into the loot tables, and at least part of this suggestion can be implemented.

[Mcskinns]

One affect that could be added to any "masterworked" craftable items is the ability to eventually enchant it, if normal crafted weapons could not be enchanted with the future system, then masterworked weapons would certainly have a whole new level of importance.

[Minstrel]

One affect that could be added to any "masterworked" craftable items is the ability to eventually enchant it, if normal crafted weapons could not be enchanted with the future system, then masterworked weapons would certainly have a whole new level of importance.

Possibly some way of combining them with an item made through Alchemy that sticks the solution permanently to the item, or allows the creation of +1 and +2 items?

Heck, replacing the +1d6 physical damage with +1d8 Fire damage would be nice.

And the AB penetrating DR is the reason why Silver gilded weapons have +1 AB vs. Shapechangers. However, considering we have +1 Enchantment weapons knocking about all over the place, Magic Polishing cloths easily findable, and not to mention any spellcaster other than Druids/Rangers having access to it, it's not like +1 is hard to find.

It's +2 that is a little more exclusive.... I'd personally go for making Silver weapons +2 vs. Shapechangers and making their DR  #/+2, just to make the silver a bit more needed.

[KoopaFanatic]

Søren just cleared up the whole thing in my eyes. Bioware made too many silly errors like this which due diligence could have corrected, its not like the patch cycle of NWN was short, it lasted years. So if I understand you right Søren, you can overcome the damage reduction 5/+1 of the shadows in the forest with a MW weapon?? If so, masterwork weapons have a lot more value in my eyes now. Need to keep the next MW katana i find.

 Still, the original thought of having more MW of the rarer weapon types is still very valid. Put some MW handaxes and MW kama etc and dare I say MW shuriken into the loot tables, and at least part of this suggestion can be implemented.

Actually, masterwork handaxes are the only masterwork weapons that appear to actually be in the loot tables...

[Emomina]

lol, and I was just arbitrarily picking some that I had never seen.   MW katana, flail, longsword, halberd, club are fairly common, I know.

[LoLJohnFerro]

Mw longbows are not in the tables and some one stole celors thus I think you should out them in the tables once more.

[failed.bard]

  There are quite a few masterwork weapons in the loot tables, but hand-axes seem to be the only ones with an AB bonus on them.

  I like the weight reduction idea, especially for armours.  Another possibilty could be having the die adder raised a category on MW weapons.  At most that would add 2 damage to a weapon.

[LoLJohnFerro]

on master work armors ad a plus one and a 10%- to wieght
on weapones +1 on rare ones such as handax bow crossbow karam shuriken
on comon +2 to damage with wieght reduc of 10% gret ax ,bastard sword,katanna,dire mace
on shields +1 to ac shield class 10-5 % wight reduc

Just what I think it should be

[KoopaFanatic]

Well, there's the "masterwork" ones which seem to be the default NWN masterwork weapons, and there are the "master-crafted" ones, which have a damage bonus but no AB.  The only "masterwork" weapons I can remember seeing are the handaxes and bows.

[Smitehammer]

Give masterwork weapons whatever it is that werewolves have that give them the ability to roll 20s half the time.  joj

[LoLJohnFerro]

[!] It was you who stole celors bow! *gasp* / Or not?
But any way +1 ab is only good on rarer items.