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Author Topic: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward  (Read 6078 times)

LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2009, 09:33:18 AM »
You want to shove an unbuffed Rixula into the sonic one! Solves everyones problems  ;)

Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2009, 08:11:00 AM »
Thats pretty rude, seesh!
I dont abuse anything Gelmar, i dont cheat i am using my familiar to attack teh chest with high possibility for the item to be destroyed in the chest but my life will be spared.
ALSO, Mages are not always strong, usually you go in dungeon fully buffed but try to go there unbuffed eh, all classes have their own advantages in things.
If we should nerf a class, it should be cleric, they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.


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Mrjunkie

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2009, 09:11:42 AM »
Yeah, the traps are not worth the risk nor the reward, its been ages since i've been there.
But after getting instant killed by a trap to find some minor trinkets i just dont bother with those chests anymore..
Its surprising that Kir'thalax would have his minions trap some of the upper level chests but none of his own, maybe he hopes they'll all be dead before they even reach him :twisted:

As for the nerfing...find one of the 4794024 topics about it lads.

peluscious

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2009, 12:28:21 PM »
Quote
they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

No they aren't. I managed to make a wuss of a cleric.  :)

Zedrik

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2009, 07:19:52 PM »
Quote
they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

No they aren't. I managed to make a wuss of a cleric.  :)
My cleric is not a powerbuild in the least. Especially with the exhaustion system.
Poor Kalan gets exhausted walking down the street. (Yes, it's an exaggeration, sue me.)

Warning: Don't provoke the high-level Falkovnian wizard. He bites. (And not in the good way.)

Budly

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2009, 07:50:52 PM »
Thats pretty rude, seesh!
I dont abuse anything Gelmar, i dont cheat i am using my familiar to attack teh chest with high possibility for the item to be destroyed in the chest but my life will be spared.
ALSO, Mages are not always strong, usually you go in dungeon fully buffed but try to go there unbuffed eh, all classes have their own advantages in things.
If we should nerf a class, it should be cleric, they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

So you proclaim, having your familiar take the punch of a deadly trap is all dandy and not evil at all? Not at all odd?  :P

Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2009, 11:03:52 AM »
Unuldor is badass evil BlackGuard if you dont remember...


"Sometimes, when you feel alone it is the time when you are most thought of"

Rex

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2009, 11:24:10 AM »
Thats pretty rude, seesh!
I dont abuse anything Gelmar, i dont cheat i am using my familiar to attack teh chest with high possibility for the item to be destroyed in the chest but my life will be spared.
ALSO, Mages are not always strong, usually you go in dungeon fully buffed but try to go there unbuffed eh, all classes have their own advantages in things.
If we should nerf a class, it should be cleric, they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

So you proclaim, having your familiar take the punch of a deadly trap is all dandy and not evil at all? Not at all odd?  :P

I'd just have a Fort Save (DC 10 + Level) upon death of the familiar.  Fail = Dead caster using his familiar as a meat shield.

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

Budly

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2009, 12:13:21 PM »
Thats pretty rude, seesh!
I dont abuse anything Gelmar, i dont cheat i am using my familiar to attack teh chest with high possibility for the item to be destroyed in the chest but my life will be spared.
ALSO, Mages are not always strong, usually you go in dungeon fully buffed but try to go there unbuffed eh, all classes have their own advantages in things.
If we should nerf a class, it should be cleric, they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

So you proclaim, having your familiar take the punch of a deadly trap is all dandy and not evil at all? Not at all odd?  :P

I'd just have a Fort Save (DC 10 + Level) upon death of the familiar.  Fail = Dead caster using his familiar as a meat shield.

~Rex


Wow, that sounds awesome! :D

Chrisman888

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2009, 12:31:25 PM »
Thats pretty rude, seesh!
I dont abuse anything Gelmar, i dont cheat i am using my familiar to attack teh chest with high possibility for the item to be destroyed in the chest but my life will be spared.
ALSO, Mages are not always strong, usually you go in dungeon fully buffed but try to go there unbuffed eh, all classes have their own advantages in things.
If we should nerf a class, it should be cleric, they are powerbuilds whatever you do about it.

So you proclaim, having your familiar take the punch of a deadly trap is all dandy and not evil at all? Not at all odd?  :P





I'd just have a Fort Save (DC 10 + Level) upon death of the familiar.  Fail = Dead caster using his familiar as a meat shield.

~Rex


Wow, that sounds awesome! :D



Why would a familiar dieing end up in your death also? Seems silly.

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Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2009, 12:34:32 PM »
Yeah, Familiars are like summons...why should caster die if summon dies?  :lol:


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failed.bard

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2009, 12:50:02 PM »
from the d20 SRD here:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm

  These are the 3.5 rules for familiar summoning/death.  In PnP, an arcanist would never put their familiar in jeapordy.
Quote
Familiar
A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

The sorcerer chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.

If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcererís experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiarís demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

Budly

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2009, 12:56:38 PM »
Indeed not, a familiar is much more then a "summon" like you all say

It's like a druids animal companion, a partner in dusk and dawn.

Rex

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2009, 12:58:33 PM »
from the d20 SRD here:http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm

  These are the 3.5 rules for familiar summoning/death.  In PnP, an arcanist would never put their familiar in jeapordy.
Quote
Familiar
A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

The sorcerer chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.

If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcererís experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiarís demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

Yeah there used to be a GREAT adnd comic one shot for that.  One false Move Wizard and your Familiar Gets It!

As for the rest of the issue, though NwN uses the mechanic of a summon, to bring out the familiar/animal companion (Rex will often use the term, "Bending over and Pooping out a Bear/Panther")....Unlike a Summon, a Familiar is "REAL", with a direct empathic link to it's Master.  Hence, you get HURT, when it gets killed.  Companions aren't linked but that thing's supposed to be your Buddy, not your meat shield.  NEITHER, are "summons"......Summons, are completely different.

If one thing were to be seriously added to POTM, shoving Familiars closer to the Book (where they don't scale up to surpass PC's in ability and there is a REPERCUSSION, for treating your familiar like a lock pick/trap target) would be at the top of my list.

To get back on the topic, if you Open a chest with anything OTHER, then yourself, or your Lock picking buddy, it wouldn't bother me one bit if all that was in there was a bunch of smashed junk, and some coins.

~Rex

Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

Budly

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2009, 02:00:12 PM »
Nope, I seen a lot of locked chest containing nothing but junk or nothing at all. :D

Its the deal of it. Like getting to the mall on a sale and find what you was to buy for like nothing is already sold out.

Emomina

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2009, 03:05:56 PM »
You will rarely hear be seriously vocal in support of an issue, but getting locks and traps back into the hands of Rogues would be great.

kenpen

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2009, 03:23:14 PM »
I noticed once bashing chests created smashed items in the chest, all the hard core chest bashers stopped - even though they implemented crowbars? (which didn't function like real crowbars, and only resulted in more junk, making only a smattering of people ever actually use them.)

Everyone just made rogue combos at that point. And the chests were get-in-able just the same, as far as the lockpicks.

The traps in the alhoon were made like that because, short of risking DEATH, everyone would just rather trip the traps than find a rogue with a high enough skill level to get those traps... and, with good reason. I can't tell you how many 12-15 level rogues couldn't even spot the traps, which they need to do before disarming them. I used to pull four or five rogues out of there a week who got popped by those traps.

darkpriest

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2009, 04:06:07 PM »
you know, there is a spell called 'find traps' that will reveal any and all traps. you will still need a rogue to disarm it though.

Rex

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2009, 04:06:58 PM »
you know, there is a spell called 'find traps' that will reveal any and all traps. you will still need a rogue to disarm it though.

Wish it did but it doesn't.  Unless they changed it.

~Rex
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Emomina

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2009, 04:07:41 PM »
My god what is the search DC then? a 12 level rogue can see at minimum DC 35, why should it be DC 50?? Seriously how many PCs can detect that high?
There is only so many ability points you can put in WIS and INT when you are making a rogue or they will be terrible combatants, I tried to be decent all around at a lot of things instead of great at any one thing. I just find that everything in this module is balanced for the max. Its like the spot and search checks are always assuming you have alertness and sharp eyes and an ability modifier of +2. And on top of the min-max planning you have kept in mind since the beginning, while you are in the dungeon, put on your search gear and quaff down your fox cunning brew. And then stand around for enough rounds to insure you have rolled high enough. Well, so be it then, I'll leave my rogue to the side while I summon a dire boar to die. The feats are better used on other things in the long run.

Which after having witnessed the reflex DCs of some traps first hand, I find that despite my character eventually having +25 reflex saving throw, I really have to choose improved evasion as one of my 4 bonus feats, so that when i fail (a 33% possiblity at max level), I can survive. The whole set up is just a bit too uber, like a cruel joke. Especially considering the rewards inside the chest of death, and how they are in the middle of dungeons and not a boss treasure room, or anywhere you might assume the chest might be more difficult than the others encountered thus far.
I have to say, and I might have missed one, but I have been playing here a year and to my recollection, Only Suzannah Murphy was straight Rogue that high. If you want to see evidence that something is unbalanced, then that speaks for itself. Its not like Rogue is an unattractive or boring class to play. I have a blast playing mine.

kenpen

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2009, 04:25:11 PM »
Not sure what you had to have to detect the traps... ask Dragos what level he started being able to see and disarm the traps, when I no longer had to pull him out after a trap obliterated him. :) Muahaha.

Rex

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2009, 04:36:43 PM »
I gave up when I managed to get rid of a small Nuclear Explosion level trap and the chest........

Was empty.

~Rex
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kenpen

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2009, 04:44:19 PM »
The trap was the prize. Woot.

Actually, I don't even know if you can disarm and sell those any more. I know a feeew places you can still rape traps for gold, though.

Rex

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2009, 04:51:04 PM »
The trap was the prize. Woot.

Actually, I don't even know if you can disarm and sell those any more. I know a feeew places you can still rape traps for gold, though.

Rather be able to make my own.

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

Minstrel

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2009, 11:19:40 AM »
Off-Topic: Greatly punishing casters for their familiars death would be all well and good, IF the Familiars didn't have what I affectionately call 'Leeroy-AI', and a tendancy to charge at the nearest Ogre Berserker despite being a Raven or Pixie, and your characters best wishes to keep them safe.

On-topic again, if the traps are kept at lethal power, I'd much like to see the search DC lowered accordingly. That way, at least if you end up trying to just eat the trap into your HP, you only have yourself to blame, rather than just clicking it in the hopes that your full-ranked Search ability will be enough, and promptly being spread evenly across the cieling.