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Author Topic: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward  (Read 9446 times)

Nefensis

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Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« on: July 11, 2009, 07:03:57 PM »


Even with the best search i couldn't see this trap but moreso the reward inside was pretty weak. There is quite a few chests in the alhoon lair that has the same issue. Some chests with no traps at all had a better content.

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Ric

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 07:34:13 PM »
You poor thing, you rolled a 20 on your reflex check and it wasn't enough.  [Pat pat]

Vokan

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 08:16:41 PM »
............Wow! :Seriously__We_Need_One__by_Ca

Haha, yeah, this definitely needs to be looked at.

failed.bard

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 08:24:08 PM »
She rolled a 12, and had a +20 on it.  Those chests are insane, they're still the only thing that's killed my halfling Isabelle.

shadymerchant

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 08:45:51 PM »
They are one of the few deterrents to really high levels, in that they can't simply be ignored, so I like them. With rolls of 60 search I could see most fairly quickly, but the 53 + dc's could be challenging. What was in them though? Mostly junk.

Nefensis

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 08:53:20 PM »
High traps i don't mind, but i'd like to see something in it.

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Crina Ovidiu - barovian guard

Ric

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 09:40:59 PM »
She rolled a 12, and had a +20 on it.  Those chests are insane, they're still the only thing that's killed my halfling Isabelle.

Ah yeah, good call there.

Kendric98

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 11:35:36 PM »
And your so poor to!  :shock: We should take up a collection.

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Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2009, 05:10:35 PM »
I dont mind if there is a trap, i just make my minion to try open the trap first and then loot the content...  -_^


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Emomina

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2009, 06:20:40 PM »
I dont mind if there is a trap, i just make my minion to try open the trap first and then loot the content...  -_^

This is also a balance issue, there is a reason only rogues (and other trap sense classes) are supposed to disarm magic traps, to protect their role.
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LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2009, 06:50:21 PM »
ITS A TRAP! :lol:

Metal_ash

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2009, 06:56:44 PM »
The reward in that chest was indeed a bit poor, but with better skill in disable trap the trap it self is a nice reward consider you can not make such traps here, that's how Lemmy got his nasty traps :D
Still you have to be able to find them first though to be able to remove them.

Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2009, 06:27:12 AM »
So what you must have to make a good trapped?


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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2009, 08:09:19 AM »
Hmm, the trap does feel a bit excessive.

I can look at the loot/reward ratio there, but always remember that the system has some randomization in it too, so one or too occurrences is not enough to estimate it.

UilliamNebel

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2009, 09:52:48 AM »
Sorry for not understanding this, but was it an epic fire trap? (DC of 43 + skill to spot, DC of 58 + skill to disarm, and a reflex/33 save.)

Even with a 'take 20' there is still a chance of failure for most, especially pre-epic levels. So is it an issue of removing epic traps from from common loot items like chest? I don't mind epic traps if they are there for the purpose of tension, in reminding a rogue that there are some things he'll never master. Kind of adds something to have to weigh the risk of checking out lootable items in a very dangerous place if it fits the theme of it. Or did I miss the point completely?

Side note, not being able to recover or craft an epic trap is hardcoded into the engine right? So the best a player can ever have is a deadly?

k_moustakas

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2009, 01:06:42 PM »
kinda reminds me of the traps in the ice queen... 110 damage on a succesfull save *slightly off topic*
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Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2009, 06:46:01 PM »
Moustakas makes a very good point, Ice queen chests have very hard traps that might kill your char in a sec and there is almsot no loot at all sometimes...atleast i have not found any "Good" loot there despite how hard teh dungeon is.


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Jana

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2009, 11:16:01 PM »
risk vs reward is the #1 reason for hitting a dungeon. Thats why people constantly farm scrags, werewolves, vampires, fire beetles, thoul caves and almost nothing else as a means to make a profit.
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failed.bard

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2009, 11:50:51 PM »
  Max spawn demonologists is the best loot dungeon.  There's no reason to walk out of there with less than 40k, and considering you can get some really good items there as well, it's far better than alhoons for loot.  The risk is quite a bit higher as well, though, so they're probably in line with each other that way.
  The traps in the alhoons are the most dangerous things in there, and the traps in the ice queens palace are the only comparable ones.  Neither are particularly worth doing unless you're mid level or lower.  Rewards are meager for both places compared to risk.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2009, 12:32:05 AM »
Demonologists is the size of roughly two other dungeons. Say for example Ahloon and Coal mines. If both were at max spawn at the same time, you'd walk out having completed them both in roughly same time with similar value to what you quoted. Including some decent gear.

people constantly farm scrags, werewolves, vampires, fire beetles, thoul caves and almost nothing else
is the reason I haven't gone in any of these dungeons, with rare exception in over a year. The spawn has never been worth it, and 90% of times I have gone to them to check spawn someone has been in middle of farming the dungeon. :roll:

But back on topic, IMHO the DC 50, 200 point dmg traps are overly excessive, be they Cold from Ice Palace, Fire or Sound from Ahloon.


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Emomina

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 12:42:40 AM »
Yeah Alhoons traps are way harder than the monsters usually. By the time a Rogue can handle the traps with ease, the monsters wont be a great challenge anymore. Seems they could do with a little tone down.
This is a screenshot of a instadeath trap :lol: It only bothers me because its sprinkled in amongst some 12 or so traps that I was able to detect and disarm, so it gets you overconfident in time for this trap. Also, just wish instead of instant ghost, that you were allowed recovery checks. Reiko is level 9 high dexterity Rogue so the reflex save on this trap has to be balanced for a character with improved evasion only, because when she is level 20, if the build pans out as planned, her reflex save vs traps will be +25, and she could still fail this trap will a roll of 7 or below, roughly 1/3 of the time.   (improved evasion for half damage would still have killed her  :cry: this time though )  So, after this little incident, it was back to summoning a creature to kamikaze the chest first, and leaving my rogue on the sidelines from her niche in the party. That can't be the intention of these traps, surely.



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Rixula

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 04:53:28 AM »
It's good to be a mage...*Nods*


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Budly

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2009, 06:50:26 AM »
We should really nerf mages so rogues become more useful.

Seriously, I play a wizard and he do not need any help. They can work as tanks, lockpickers, support, behind the lines nukers. Nerf em! Make em weaker :D ;)

And Rixula, to have your so called "minion" open the trapped chest sounds like engine abuse to me (Or atleast being rude ICly! Haha!). They do oftenly have a freewill of there own, like not opening a chest killing them ;)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 07:35:04 AM by Budly »

Minstrel

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2009, 07:54:40 AM »
A 160 damage chest?!

O_O

With DC 33.... Dayum.

That does seem slightly epic-level powerful.

failed.bard

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Re: Alhoon chests ~ traps vs reward
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2009, 08:07:59 AM »
I think the sonic traps, which are around 100 damage with no apparent save, are worse than the fire ones.  A 10th level rogue (well, 11th here) with improved evasion and a protection from elements potion will survive all of the fire traps, but not necessarily the sonic one.