Fear effects

[peluscious]

Would it be possible and good to change fear to, instead to make you run stupidly and do nothing while you are hit in a corner, give you a stupendous penalty to ac and ab, great enough to make you want to run away to the nearest exit, or try to pathetically defend yourself, just like the PnP fear?
I don't know, maybe -20 to attack and armor class.

EDIT: corrected some typos.

[Bad_Bud]

[signs the petition]

[ThAnswr]

In other words, the ability to run away because there's no possible way you could defend yourself due to fear penalties?

I like it:  Where do I sign?   

[Bad_Bud]

Yeah, the kind of running away where you have a chance to live, not the kind of running away where you invoke twenty attacks of opportunity and get spammed by the fear aura the whole time so it never goes away.

[boompowclash]

Lets get this for Turn Undead as well?

even -10 to attacks (Like Bigbies interposing hand) or simply a Daze Effect to prevent attacking would be a cool alternative to running into the nearest wall repeatedly.

[ThAnswr]

Yeah, the kind of running away where you have a chance to live, not the kind of running away where you invoke twenty attacks of opportunity and get spammed by the fear aura the whole time so it never goes away.

I like it even more with in-depth explanation.  Where do I sign? 

[Kaspar]

Yeah, the kind of running away where you have a chance to live, not the kind of running away where you invoke twenty attacks of opportunity and get spammed by the fear aura the whole time so it never goes away.

I like it even more with in-depth explanation.  Where do I sign? 

I don't know, but I'd like to sign this thing too.

[Smitehammer]

This pleases me.  And Osiris.  DO MY BIDDING.

[peluscious]

Just to be formal:
It would still be expected that the victim ran away, instead of standing there playing tough just because the said person want to look badass. Or when the caster casts fear to get rid of someone and the someone is an annoying bastard that wants to keep bugging people and watching and listening to what he/she shouldn't.

[failed.bard]

Really, you should still be able to melee counter attacks, and take attacks of opportunity, but should still move away in the manner the spell does now.

[Minstrel]

I love this idea. Some arbitarily high reduction to all your abilities ( Arcane Spell Failure 100%, -20 AB, -15 AC ) whilst retaining the ability to run away yourself, instead of the current 'Run past five enemies for AoO's, then get stuck on a wall' syndrome.

Just to be formal:
It would still be expected that the victim ran away, instead of standing there playing tough just because the said person want to look badass. Or when the caster casts fear to get rid of someone and the someone is an annoying bastard that wants to keep bugging people and watching and listening to what he/she shouldn't.

This is a fair point.... Though in my experience, I've feared people who have REALLY been annoying me during a very critical time fighting off a horde of Malar panthers from a town as they sit mocking me, only to have them come back and act as if nothing had happened. If they want to be the uber fearless champion of everything, they will be, everything else be damned.

[engelfire]

Sounds good, as long the people or beings that are under the spells influence RP the effect. But then again, how they would know in middle of heated battle or scene that they have been fear'd? Maybe leave the fear visual visible but allow movement

[bloodandsoil]

From what I remember, when I used to play Pen and Paper Ravenloft (from the boxed set), there was a distinct difference between Fear checks and Horror checks.

Fear checks were taken whenever your character was faced with a powerful monster that could kill you.

Horror checks were taken whenever your character was faced with some sort of unnatural being (for example, you walk into a room with a pool filled with blood and there is a zombie that removes his head and holds it in his hands while groaning).

In many cases, a horror and a fear check were taken together.  And there was even a table that gave different effects on your character depending on the dice roll.  Our DM did the dice roll behind his partition so I don't know if he just picked one or actually went by the dice roll.  I don't remember them all, but I know that being frozen in in place in fear was one of them.  Running away in a total panic in any random direction away from the threat was another one of them.  There were many more.

[Minstrel]

From what I remember, when I used to play Pen and Paper Ravenloft (from the boxed set), there was a distinct difference between Fear checks and Horror checks.

Fear checks were taken whenever your character was faced with a powerful monster that could kill you.

Horror checks were taken whenever your character was faced with some sort of unnatural being (for example, you walk into a room with a pool filled with blood and there is a zombie that removes his head and holds it in his hands while groaning).

In many cases, a horror and a fear check were taken together.  And there was even a table that gave different effects on your character depending on the dice roll.  Our DM did the dice roll behind his partition so I don't know if he just picked one or actually went by the dice roll.  I don't remember them all, but I know that being frozen in in place in fear was one of them.  Running away in a total panic in any random direction away from the threat was another one of them.  There were many more.

You're talking about Fear/Horror/Madness checks, which were part of Ravenloft PnP but don't work here so much.

In PnP, if I recall right, Fear checks were actually a Fortitude and BAB based save, because it made more sense that a Barbarian would be able to stare down a huge monster than a weedy little Bard.

Horror was a Will save, as was Madness. Madness being the constant and prolonged exposure to something unnatural and horrifying, like having been walking through a crypt with blood oozing from the walls for the past ten minutes, welling up around your feet as undead hands rise up from it and try to pull you down.

[bloodandsoil]

Yea, thanks for the clarification.  It's been a while since I played.  Back then it was 2nd edition rules too.  The details are a bit fuzzy.

But I do remember that there were variable effects if you failed your horror or fear checks.  There wasn't just a one size fits all reaction.  The table listed at least 4 different possible reactions for a failed horror check and 4 others for a failed fear check.  But, of course Pen and Paper is way more flexible than a video game.  But anyhow, I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but it would be nice to have something akin to the original Ravenloft rules for fear/horror checks.

[Minstrel]

Yea, thanks for the clarification.  It's been a while since I played.  Back then it was 2nd edition rules too.  The details are a bit fuzzy.

But I do remember that there were variable effects if you failed your horror or fear checks.  There wasn't just a one size fits all reaction.  The table listed at least 4 different possible reactions for a failed horror check and 4 others for a failed fear check.  But, of course Pen and Paper is way more flexible than a video game.  But anyhow, I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but it would be nice to have something akin to the original Ravenloft rules for fear/horror checks.

I THINK that Fear had a disease-like progression table, from taking a slight penalty, to a heavy penalty, to running for the nearest escape screaming, and a step up on your Madness line.

Don't take my word on it, mind.

[darkravenkin]

I had tried a server there the fear effects had been changed. Ever creature of a super natural nature that was a higher level would automaticly cause a fear check. If you failed then one of four things happend.

1: Your fine and you attack like normal
2: You feel fear to the point that your suffer a ac, attack and will saves. The will saves I think if other monsters come charging in.
3: You run from the monster. Only happend when a low level was in a place he really souldn't be.
4: You were frozen with fear and rooted to the spot.

It made things really interesting.

[Chrisman888]

Agree with this topic defiantly.  The way fear is now doesn't make you feared, it somehow makes your character slightly retarded..

~ Chris

[Dreaderick]

Interesting suggestions here. It always annoyed me that you bolt in some direction after failing a fear check and eventually bump into a wall or corner where you'll stay until you get pummeled to death.

When some kind of Daze effect is applied, like suggested earlier, a player still retains navigational control. Which is very useful since pathfinding in NwN isnt always optimal and it really sucks to die because of that.

Another suggestion: after failing a fear check and having some kind of penalty applied, make another Will save. Fail that save and you'll drop your weapon and shield but get a bonus to movement rate for a short while.

[Ric]

I swear I've suggested something like this ages ago.  It'd be great to actually let someone be in control of running away in fear.   

The only suggestion I would make though is to keep the default-effect for when the spell is cast on NPCs.  This is because the AI won't just run away with that effect.  The spell would basically become an uber-taunt in PvM.

[ThAnswr]

Sounds good, as long the people or beings that are under the spells influence RP the effect. But then again, how they would know in middle of heated battle or scene that they have been fear'd? Maybe leave the fear visual visible but allow movement

Leaving the fear visual would probably be best. 

[Aahz]

As much as I like the ideas here, Could we not just accept the game mechanics as they are instead of endlessly trying to re-write NWN into a different game?

[ThAnswr]

As much as I like the ideas here, Could we not just accept the game mechanics as they are instead of endlessly trying to re-write NWN into a different game?

Normally, I'd tend to agree with you.  But I think that horse left the barn a looong, looong time ago. 

[Smitehammer]

As much as I like the ideas here, Could we not just accept the game mechanics as they are instead of endlessly trying to re-write NWN into a different game?

Normally, I'd tend to agree with you.  But I think that horse left the barn a looong, looong time ago. 

No it didn't , see, it tried to leave the barn but got stuck in the corner and just stood there with black skulls flying over its head.

[Vespertilio]

I had tried a server there the fear effects had been changed. Ever creature of a super natural nature that was a higher level would automatically cause a fear check. If you failed then one of four things happened.

1: Your fine and you attack like normal
2: You feel fear to the point that your suffer a ac, attack and will saves. The will saves I think if other monsters come charging in.
3: You run from the monster. Only happened when a low level was in a place he really shouldn't be.
4: You were frozen with fear and rooted to the spot.

It made things really interesting.

It was very interesting and much better than the NWN fear, with my epic fail skill I tended to get option 4 a lot!