Author Topic: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts  (Read 5651 times)

Nefensis

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Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« on: June 24, 2009, 10:11:26 AM »
As a barovian character I'm unable to reach most of the crypt mushrooms, i think ive seen a vicar's cap twice from trade along with gravemold. Now i understand the idea is that it grows where there's dead things but would it be acceptable to say that it also grows from a cold humid place? Because there's quite a few caves around that could qualify, also the random caves with vampires and skellies in it could easily qualify as a *crypt* environment.

Thanks for considering it

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Kaspar

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2009, 02:06:33 AM »
:thumbup:

Agreed.

Minstrel

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 05:21:41 AM »
Heck, since the crypt mushrooms are supposed to grow from the nutrients of a corpse, there must be enough people dying in these crypts to easily feed up our own little supply of grave molds.

That or you could just kill someone and leave them in a giant petri dish for a few weeks and get all the fungus you could ever want.

Kaspar

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 05:39:20 AM »
Heck, since the crypt mushrooms are supposed to grow from the nutrients of a corpse, there must be enough people dying in these crypts to easily feed up our own little supply of grave molds.

That or you could just kill someone and leave them in a giant petri dish for a few weeks and get all the fungus you could ever want.

 .. The ideas you give me.

Grieyls

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 05:59:08 AM »
Given that Viccars grow where corpses lie... I see no diference from a corpse found in a crypt and say the corpse of a dead animal out in a forest... That being said animals dieing in a cave is not unheard of in the real world so finding Viccars in a cave would make sense. Considering you'd find the odd stray animal wondering into the cave for whatever reason only to be trapped there and then dieing of starvation or falling for a more sidious demise. Either way, there's corpse there for the Viccar's to grow ;)

dutchy

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 06:07:04 AM »
then shouldnt grave yards have these lil buggers in corners and such?   
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Grieyls

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 06:13:33 AM »
Sure, why not. An unkept grave should have these little mushrooms popping up all over and around it. ;)

dutchy

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 06:42:33 AM »
graves in general though go figure fumes germs rise and all wich feed the fungi and all that
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Grieyls

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 08:52:39 AM »
Well if you want to be realistic... Fungi will grow anywhere where there is rotting biomass. Be it plant or animal. Some prefer dark moist places while others are not too fussed so long as the biomass is there. Heck some even grow on still living tree's and what not... Could really get into it but thinking too much into this for a game is a little overkill ;) :P

LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2009, 09:37:51 AM »
nerf what vicars do and make them every where so people dont want them anymore and stop complaining about where they are....

Minstrel

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 10:46:33 AM »
nerf what vicars do and make them every where so people dont want them anymore and stop complaining about where they are....

Spoiler: show
Viccars are just one of the four 'healing' herbs. You can't nerf what they do, per se. The point is, for each one you use, you have a stronger healing potion. They are exactly the same as the other three 'healers'.

Mcskinns

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 11:32:03 AM »
I could see the mushrooms growing in certain other locations.  Perhaps in the abandoned lab, the lower floor of the abandoned farmhouse, inside mausoleums and such(with or without spawns of undead), in "feeding chambers" in some dungeons like the werewolf caves, beetle caves etc.

I don't see a need to nerf them in any way asides possibly making them spawn in other suitable locations, to do so removes the need for PC interactions.

I suggest finding some people who need potions and working out your own little deal where 4-5 viccars can be traded for a cure moderate or something.  People farm knuckles for similar, and you'd recieve plenty extra shrooms for your own needs without being out any coin at all.



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ThAnswr

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 11:59:02 AM »
Let's call a spade a spade:  A mushroom will grow in pile of dung inside a tire thrown under a tree. 

No reason a viccars cap can't grow in the forest.   
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Aahz

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2009, 12:15:10 PM »
well there are container "bodies" scattered all over, in forests, in caves, etc. It would seem reasonable that viccars cap and grave mold would grow in those areas.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 02:57:27 PM »
There's a certain balance to the system, the way the mushrooms grow and where they grow, from what I see.  Their location alone limits their abundance, and certain herbs end up being the bottleneck herbs.  Disturbing this balance because Barovian PC's couldn't brew potions involving crypt herbs easily doesn't seem like a good idea.  I think the players need to just get more inventive if they really want those crypt herbs.

Nefensis

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2009, 03:03:35 PM »
A certain balance? I doubt that seriously. There's plenty of zone without herbs at all and some are so overabundant that it becomes ridiculous and we toss entire BAGS of red berries or crimson lichen.

How it is so unlikely that crypt herbs would grow elsewhere where there are the same required temperature, soil etc. I doubt a few more mushrooms to replace useless ones would UNBALANCE the system.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2009, 03:46:34 PM »
A certain balance? I doubt that seriously. There's plenty of zone without herbs at all and some are so overabundant that it becomes ridiculous and we toss entire BAGS of red berries or crimson lichen.

How it is so unlikely that crypt herbs would grow elsewhere where there are the same required temperature, soil etc. I doubt a few more mushrooms to replace useless ones would UNBALANCE the system.

That's the balance.  Have you ever played a game like the McDonalds Monopoly game?  They give you almost every piece on the board that you need to win, but hold out on certain ones.  The same thing goes for these herbs; you have more crimson lichen than you could ever possibly want, but those damned bloodberries only spawn one month in the game year, and that's what keeps it balanced (or in the Monopoly game, keeps everyone from winning).  You still get to use the crimson lichen in the other recipe that requires it, but it limits the amount of freedom potions you can spam.

You can only make cure moderates most of the time, except during winter.  The big healing potions only come during spring, which keeps people from cranking them out forever and ever.

Just because you pick every herb that shows up doesn't mean it's supposed to be useful to you.  I've noted the common herbs that spawn all year, and I only ever pick them or buy them if I have the rarer ones that will go with it.  I also managed to buy about 30 viccar's caps from people because I didn't want to storm through their low level crypts all the time, so I know you can buy them.  Of course, I did pay them a lot, but that's economics, and life.

Maybe you should put up posters saying you want viccar's caps, even when you don't need them, so that you'll always have a supply.  It's hardest to get things when you want them immediately...  especially in the NWN herb world.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 03:48:07 PM by Bad_Bud »

ThAnswr

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2009, 07:09:46 PM »
Pardon my bluntness, but there's something inherently ridiculous about a mushroom becoming an issue of balance.  When you try to put so fine a point on something, there's generally something wrong with that something. 

Quote
well there are container "bodies" scattered all over, in forests, in caves, etc. It would seem reasonable that viccars cap and grave mold would grow in those areas.

Considering a mushroom is a fungus, the planting possibilities on that body are endless.   ;)
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failed.bard

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2009, 10:05:14 PM »
Potions are supposed to be in short supply, because a well balanced party will only need them for emergency use.  I'll end up using 1 to 5 potions on a maxed spawn demonologists run, to keep other people that are down from dying.  Even during combat the clerics handle the healing as much as possible.  The clerics and mages handle all the pre-fight buffing, the only potion the melee types end up having to use is barkskin, and you can buy those.
  The coal caves are the same way, though neg energy protection potions are generally needed for the dragon.
  If the hardest dungeons in game, can be done at the highest spawns, with limited potion availability, I don't see how there's an imbalance.

Emomina

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2009, 10:27:07 PM »
You /have/ to have a magic spell caster without them. The Potions allow my barbarian to romp around with a fighter, a ranger or a rogue without any trouble.  The Clarity potion, the Neg Energy Protection potion, and the Cure Poison/Disease are really useful. I play a Rogue, a Barbarian, and a Fighter. The potions are the only reason you can play any of the nerfed classes at low-mid levels.   Failing Will saves, or Getting level drained, or poisoned, are the main reasons a routine dungeon trip is otherwise a deathtrap in my view.

I refuse to actively find a magic user when ever some of us decide to go dungeon crawling, if one wants to come Icly then sweet. I have to ask the magic users that always have this point of view, if, do you seek out some fighters or a rogue whenever you want to go to a dungeon, or as I see most often, do you just find another magic user  8)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 10:30:00 PM by Emomina »
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ThAnswr

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2009, 11:28:24 PM »
Potions are supposed to be in short supply, because a well balanced party will only need them for emergency use.  I'll end up using 1 to 5 potions on a maxed spawn demonologists run, to keep other people that are down from dying.  Even during combat the clerics handle the healing as much as possible.  The clerics and mages handle all the pre-fight buffing, the only potion the melee types end up having to use is barkskin, and you can buy those.
  The coal caves are the same way, though neg energy protection potions are generally needed for the dragon.
  If the hardest dungeons in game, can be done at the highest spawns, with limited potion availability, I don't see how there's an imbalance.

Potions are in short supply because the decision was made to artificially create a player-based economy in the belief that it would foster RP and partying and cooperation and all around kumbaya dynamics.   Whether it does any of those things is irrelevant.  The player-based economy system for potions will be around forever because those on high like it. 
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Emomina

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2009, 11:50:13 PM »
Quote
The player-based economy system for potions will be around forever because those on high like it. 
Doesn't everybody? I think it does all the things intended, in my experience at least 8)
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eyeofpestilence

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2009, 11:57:07 PM »
Potions are supposed to be in short supply, because a well balanced party will only need them for emergency use.  I'll end up using 1 to 5 potions on a maxed spawn demonologists run, to keep other people that are down from dying.  Even during combat the clerics handle the healing as much as possible.  The clerics and mages handle all the pre-fight buffing, the only potion the melee types end up having to use is barkskin, and you can buy those.
  The coal caves are the same way, though neg energy protection potions are generally needed for the dragon.
  If the hardest dungeons in game, can be done at the highest spawns, with limited potion availability, I don't see how there's an imbalance.

Potions are in short supply because the decision was made to artificially create a player-based economy in the belief that it would foster RP and partying and cooperation and all around kumbaya dynamics.   Whether it does any of those things is irrelevant.  The player-based economy system for potions will be around forever because those on high like it.  

It has created a player based economy. Some take part in it. Some do not. I would suggest the system is a success in
Quote
foster RP and partying and cooperation
.

It's easy for a self healing, self buffing character to not require potions. Play a rogue or fighter some time. You might find the necessity for the "kumbaya dynamics" and products created from them.

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ThAnswr

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2009, 01:05:42 AM »
Quote
The player-based economy system for potions will be around forever because those on high like it. 
Doesn't everybody? I think it does all the things intended, in my experience at least 8)

No, everybody does not like it.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Crypt mushrooms vs crypts
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2009, 01:20:12 AM »
If there wasn't a design to herb distribution, all of the herbs you would need would spawn in caves in massive quantities and not be seasonal.

The way it's set up prevents all potions from being made on an assembly line in the thousands, and I think it's fantastic the way it is.

You're going to have to come up with a strategy for obtaining each of the rare components, and making rare components common is not going to be the answer, especially not for the player economy.  Ever since I figured out the rarity of the things, I've been setting different prices for different sets of herbs (rare and common).  What's baffled me for a long time is the fact people will pay the same amount for every herb, regardless of season or rarity.