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Author Topic: Exhaustion  (Read 28559 times)

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2009, 02:38:26 PM »
I also like the system though belive there are a few bumps in it that need to be ironed out i will agree that because of the system even partying up for smithing and copper gathering it is quite hard to gather the needed materials

Aahz

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 03:09:32 PM »
the system is a hell for anything lower then 10th lvl

pc vs mobs: by the time you fight a second mob of enemies with a low ab your getting messed up worse cause you get slowed and a ab decrease.

pc vs distances: as everything is far away now cause everything nearby gets raided like theres no tomorow, you get messed up easely cause it kicks in pretty early even for higher con ppl etc.  dunno what you based this   (sorry but this is how i name it ) louwsy system on but it doesnt seem to work properly or work at all.


pc vs crafting:  thnx you guys gave us the ecumberment system now we got this  i see less miners and silver weapons have decreased drasticly due to the fact its not worth the danger of the area they need to get it from and worse they can barely move  or get tired when moving, wich means mining is useless and a big pain now.

so with one system you crippled other systems    this is how it is atm and how most of the ppl see it, im trying to see it positive but its hard to do so.

This exactly what I have run into with my 6th level cleric. While I notice it with my other characters if I push if I slow down and wait a little, then everything is fine (they are at least 10th level). However it is very crippling to my under 10th level cleric. On second thought it is not exactly true as my sorcerer Nimic got all the way to level 10 and only ever saw the exhaustion system activate once and that was when it was last set to very harsh levels.... the update before the most resent one I believe.

Today I was in the sullen woods (Groups of 2 shadows and 1 shadow fiend). I walked out from the outskirts the entire way starting at about hour 10, buffed and entered the woods, Fought 4 groups, during the fourth group I had killed both shadows and had barely damaged the shadow fiend when the exhaustion hit just as the magic weapon spell failed. I tried to use searing light to finish off the shadow fiend at that point but the spell failure kicked in it fizzled, Also a fifth group of shadows in the distance saw me and started running toward me. I was able to run out of the woods and then walked back and reached the outskirts again at about hour 16 and was still exhausted when I got there.

The system seems to be an "all or nothing" kind of deal. Either the system does not impact you much at all or it is extremely annoying and with my cleric at least, it is extremely annoying. Also it looks like the rate of exhaustion and recovery is governed by a random wheel spin because on some days I seem to be able to fight longer before it kicks in than other days even when playing the same way and fighting the same creatures.
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Rex

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 03:20:14 PM »
I've got, all types of PC's really, and even with the casters, I haven't run into a spell failure situation.  It's a great system.  Does wonders to neuter the grinding and promote grouping and group RP.  Also, haven't had the crafting issues because with my few PC's that craft, I get a group of folks, and carry REASONABLE amounts of material, and make several trips.  Doing it that way, causes no issues what so ever.  Really I'm not seeing any negative arguments here that aren't directly attributable to grinding, group grinding, soloing, running forever, running while over loaded, and or trying to carry tons of material all by your self.  *shrug*

Took a minimal amount of adjustment really to learn where it starts to act up.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 03:22:19 PM by Rex »
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2009, 03:26:52 PM »
Ideally we would do all things in groups, but this is a game governed by free time, so it's not always possible.  Sometimes we just want to go let off some steam and kill a few skeletons, but this system mostly prohibits us from doing so.

Charon

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2009, 04:29:08 PM »
I wouldn't miss the system if it suddenly disappeared.

Lowering movement rate after running for a while might be quite reasonable but at the same time the server is rather huge and it already takes quite a while to get from A to B. And slow transitioners are hit double since the long time they spent transitioning counts as moving.
To balance it out I think transitioning should count as standing still since that is what the char actually does. Also there could be some more short cuts like the one from "Tser Falls" to "Tser Pool" (if reasonable - like climbing down a rope to the Mines or such) or some exorbitant expensive carriage service provided by a Vistani.

Lowering AC: As for Dodge AC okay, all other AC I think should remain the same though.

Spell Failure: If at all then I think Spell Failure should kick in really late like when you kept fighting or running after you have already felt exhausted taking in account that one would have to be really panting before not being able to speak properly.

While mages should be perfectly fine most of the time as they only get exhausted from running (extensive casting shouldn't be exhausting if you ask me, thinking of some people talking and gesturing for hours without any signs of fatigue) I could imagine that clerics could be rather f***ed getting exhausted in the middle of a fight, surrounded by enemies with the buffs suddenly fading, unable to even cast GS or healing spells. Which to me occurs to be sightly imbalanced since all the effects that hit a non caster hit the cleric (or mage) just as much but not vice versa

With that having said, uhmm...
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 08:28:04 AM by Charon »

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Rex

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2009, 04:35:55 PM »
Ideally we would do all things in groups, but this is a game governed by free time, so it's not always possible.  Sometimes we just want to go let off some steam and kill a few skeletons, but this system mostly prohibits us from doing so.

I don't have a problem, going off and killing a few skeletons.  The only time I had an issue in that sort of regard, was when I tested, running thru one skelly pit, finishing, running out, and running to the next one, wash rinse repeat.  Even then it was a minor warning.  So it does seem to be a speed bump on the speed grind train, but if I take a bit of time and walk, I don't have an issue at all.  This is hashed out with several different types of PC's as well, differing stats etc.

Good system, no real issues except for that standing bug which was fixed a bit ago if I recall.  The good outweighs the bad.


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Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2009, 06:12:33 PM »
All of you that have felt that some of your specific characters seem more harshly hit by the exhaustion system than others, could you post these characters' names here? I'll try to look more into that then.

Chrisman888

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2009, 07:04:05 PM »
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Aahz

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2009, 07:43:38 PM »
Khansekhem
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kenpen

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2009, 07:47:09 PM »
Does the system take into account strength and constitution spells? It doesn't seem to, is why I ask. Even when I pump my strength and con through the roof w/ empowered spells, it doesn't appear to make a noticeable difference.

And, it still seems to be leaving you at the same exhausted state when you log in, as when you log out.

Metal_ash

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2009, 07:55:51 PM »
My question is what this system brings to the server really, more then a try to slow people down a bit.
The exhaustion by carry around to much weight is fine by me really and actually fills a function.
Maybe them who do like it can tell me what good it brings to the server?
A IRL feeling? well then maybe we shall have a system that answers to natures callings to (Bad joke but a point)?

Most of the time after a hard run or a hard fight i see people RP they are tired and so it have always been here since i first started here, that mean long before this system was in place.

I do know the system is still worked on to be perfected, this is just my point of view nothing else.

I am sorry to complain about it but for me nothing good for the server or RP vice comes out from it.


ThAnswr

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2009, 09:13:39 PM »
All of you that have felt that some of your specific characters seem more harshly hit by the exhaustion system than others, could you post these characters' names here? I'll try to look more into that then.

I don't know if you can classify what my char experienced as "more harshly hit", but there was exhaustion a few days ago where there was none before. 

Character's name:  Calor Tir'end
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2009, 02:31:40 AM »
Ideally we would do all things in groups, but this is a game governed by free time, so it's not always possible.  Sometimes we just want to go let off some steam and kill a few skeletons, but this system mostly prohibits us from doing so.

I don't have a problem, going off and killing a few skeletons.  The only time I had an issue in that sort of regard, was when I tested, running thru one skelly pit, finishing, running out, and running to the next one, wash rinse repeat.  Even then it was a minor warning.  So it does seem to be a speed bump on the speed grind train, but if I take a bit of time and walk, I don't have an issue at all.  This is hashed out with several different types of PC's as well, differing stats etc.

Good system, no real issues except for that standing bug which was fixed a bit ago if I recall.  The good outweighs the bad.


~Rex


The style of play comes in as another factor... I like things that are challenging.  I don't really take pleasure in heading down and one shotting a bunch of easy things, like a paladin taking out a bunch of decrepit skeletons or juju zombies, so that's also a part of it.  If I'm fighting something that's a challenge, it's going to push my character to the edge.  I can run a whole dungeon one shotting things and I'll have absolutely no problem.  In fact, on some of my characters, I can blaze through things using high damage mass radius spells and get out extremely fast and unexhausted, but when I run a challenging dungeon, which I find the most pleasure in, I get hit with exhaustion by the second room, and that makes a challenge become the impossible.  The system scales challenge, so that to not become exhausted, the dungeon has to be easy for you to beat.

It promotes numbers, but it takes the video game out of it for me.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2009, 07:31:00 AM »
Generally, we try to avoid judging people's style of play - as our number rule state “Play how you like as long as you don’t impair the roleplay experience of others.” However, the problem is that it actually had come to a point where it did impair the roleplay experience of others. Yes, acknowledged, it is a move toward less video game, but that in the name of promoting a roleplaying game that was otherwise suffering. Not considering childhood-diseases of the system, there is of course pros and cons with it as much as with most other systems. On the bad side, it puts a limitation on playing and it makes it at times harder, demanding much more patience, more time in general to achieve the same. On the positive side, it helps the spawn levels, it provides an additional roleplay element by portraying exhaustion and it paces down things, allowing people to roleplay their characters without worrying as much about keeping up or have their adventuring party robbed of their adventure by a fast pace loving player.

To judge whether the good outdo the bad, what speaks in favour of the system is that the majority of the pros falls upon the roleplaying game side. If it can ultimately turn out to be an asset to that aspect, I feel it's still worth pursuing.

Zedrik

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2009, 07:57:17 AM »
Honestly, the only character I've had it hit very often is Kalan, and he has a 8 CON. It hits Werner every now and again, but usually only after running around the server for an hour like a chicken with its head cut off looking for people.

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Little Lotte

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2009, 08:55:30 AM »
I like it. Its realistic to me, no person should be able to run or fight forever without getting tired. *nodnod*

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2009, 09:20:12 AM »
im not sure if the Vampire template is tied to this script. but even when my character was alive i think i saw an exhaustion message only once.

but i do like it. and ive seen the server repopulate more often. were as in past, i remember every spawn was just about low indefantely.

i like it personally.

Metal_ash

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2009, 10:14:15 AM »
Again, the once that have not seen the exhaustion messedge i assume is no close combat fighters and if so not at levels when they have like one or two attacks.Also as mentioned before in this post, running you seems to be able to do for a rather okay period of time, it is when the close combat starts the real problem begin.
I have been in party's, RPing taking it really slow and still get hits with exhaustion and so other members of the party was from time to time.
My problem with this system is that it still seems to be totally random when it sets in.

This is an example that happend just a few days back.

Bolo my level 17 monk headed down the vamp lair, it was a low spawn with only a few stone wolfs, wights and a few lesser vamps.
Bolo slammed his way through them with ease, running, That time i did not get even a hint that i was about to get exhausted and i was not nither.I did never head down to the purple caves to check futher but turned back at the last statue in the vampire lair.
The day after Bolo headed down there again. About the same spawn. Bolo got to the cells with them chests in, there he got exhausted. Maybe i got a warning that i was about to get exhausted but if so i missed it, anyway it feels a bit odd, same character same spawn same place, same run to get there before enter but this time i get exhausted after two and a half fights.

This is just one example out of rather many similar that have happend to me.

I do like the idea of the system, that i do... But i not like how it works and what effects it have when it do kicks in.

Cheers.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2009, 10:35:58 AM »
Again, the once that have not seen the exhaustion messedge i assume is no close combat fighters and if so not at levels when they have like one or two attacks.Also as mentioned before in this post, running you seems to be able to do for a rather okay period of time, it is when the close combat starts the real problem begin.
I have been in party's, RPing taking it really slow and still get hits with exhaustion and so other members of the party was from time to time.
My problem with this system is that it still seems to be totally random when it sets in.

This is an example that happend just a few days back.

Bolo my level 17 monk headed down the vamp lair, it was a low spawn with only a few stone wolfs, wights and a few lesser vamps.
Bolo slammed his way through them with ease, running, That time i did not get even a hint that i was about to get exhausted and i was not nither.I did never head down to the purple caves to check futher but turned back at the last statue in the vampire lair.
The day after Bolo headed down there again. About the same spawn. Bolo got to the cells with them chests in, there he got exhausted. Maybe i got a warning that i was about to get exhausted but if so i missed it, anyway it feels a bit odd, same character same spawn same place, same run to get there before enter but this time i get exhausted after two and a half fights.

This is just one example out of rather many similar that have happend to me.

I do like the idea of the system, that i do... But i not like how it works and what effects it have when it do kicks in.

Cheers.


Did you actively play Bolo between these two dungeon runs? As it's been mentioned, exhaustion doesn't dissipate when you're logged off, so it would be the same as running through the dungeon right after you left it.


Metal_ash

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2009, 10:45:48 AM »
No i did not play him in betwin the two runs, but he sat down to rest in the Baratak forest to save his location so he should have been fully rested for the next run down the Vampire lair.
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failed.bard

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2009, 11:22:58 AM »
  I played two close quarters, higher level characters of mine today.

  Gemli, my dwarf paladin, ran from the outskirts to the vamp lair, cleared everything to the tower, then rested outside it.  He cleared the rest of teh dungeon, at a full run, and ran back to vallaki.  He was in the outskirts before he was exhausted enough for his movement to be slowed.  I think he has a 17 str, 16 con pre buff.

  Wilhelm went on a max spawn coal mines trip, and hit early stage exhaustion after two - three hours of constant fighting in there.  It kicked in right as his buffs were ending, which would mean 13 turns from when the fighting started.  That was constant running and fighting, so time wise that seemed reasonable.  Not a full rest cycle, but if it had been spread out more pacing wise he probably wouldn't have gotten tired at all.  Base str 14, con 12, for him.

  For both it seemed reasonable.

Nefensis

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2009, 11:26:24 AM »
Crina my guard with 18 str and 16 con runs from Vallaki to Midway picking herbs, not fighting anything, and i get exhausted :\ That's about 7 minutes of running.

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Metal_ash

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2009, 06:19:28 AM »
There still seems to be some flaws in this system.

One example of that...
Bolo was up on Baratak on his way down, he get that warning messedge telling him - you start to feel exhausted. Bolo start to walk, not to long after, still walking he gets exhausted.
I thought walking was to recover him from exhausted.

Another example, also with Bolo...
Running, and a bit of fighting then all the sudden exhausted, no warning text or anything this time, just exhausted right away.
I scrolled up to see so i had not missed the warning text, but there was nothing...not a hint that he was about to soon be exhausted.

I have talked to a few about this through tells, and it seems i am not the only one that had experienced similar things with this system.

Bad_Bud

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2009, 06:43:49 AM »
It's easy to have the message get lost when you're fighting and doing things, so it should probably be displayed as floating text over the character's head, like most other heads-up notifications.

As for getting exhausted while walking, maybe Bolo's monk speed has something to do with it?  I have no idea how the system works.

peluscious

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Re: Exhaustion
« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2009, 06:44:46 AM »
I think there is something wrong with the script.
My characters rarely get exhausted...
And when they do, its after a lot of running and/or fighting
None of them have uber str or con. 14 tops.