Author Topic: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages  (Read 13218 times)

Adul

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The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« on: June 18, 2009, 03:03:50 PM »
If an outlander character arrives to Ravenloft from Gothic Earth, will the languages heard in Barovia sound familiar to him? If he speaks Romanian, will he understand Balok? What language will they perceive the common tongue (Vaasi) as? Is Vaasi the same language as English, or is it familiar enough to understand and speak for someone who speaks English on Earth? One can get confused in this topic easily. :|

Chrisman888

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 03:06:37 PM »
Uh i am not sure if I am understanding this right, but I don't think we can roll up characters from "Earth".

I doubt I could bring in a 70' guitar player from Canada into POTM :P.

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Emomina

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 03:09:32 PM »
He means Ravenloft's gothic earth, which is an allowed setting of origin :P
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Adul

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 03:11:19 PM »
As I understand, the rules allow characters from Earth (or Gothic Earth, a Ravenloft setting introduced in Masque of the Red Death) to be played on PotM as long as we choose a time of origin that is no later than the 1650s (that might not be the exact year but it's somewhere close).
« Last Edit: June 18, 2009, 03:17:46 PM by Adul »

DarkWyvern

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 03:25:20 PM »
Correct. Gothic Earth is allowed

Adul

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 03:46:34 PM »
Back to the question, will my character from the 16th century Spain recognize Vaasi as English?

Rex

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 04:17:13 PM »
Back to the question, will my character from the 16th century Spain recognize Vaasi as English?

Pretty much, with Dialect differences of course.  Consider the difference between the English spoken just in Great Britain areas.  And that's before the bad grammar like "Cockney".

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Wids

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 05:05:10 PM »
Heh...if only I could have gotten a direct and concise an answer when I asked a similar question about parallel languages....  :think:

Kni7es

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 05:57:24 PM »
Pretty much, with Dialect differences of course.  Consider the difference between the English spoken just in Great Britain areas.  And that's before the bad grammar like "Cockney".

~Rex

Oi, lay off th' Cockney, willya?

:lol: Just kidding. I'm not even from the UK so it makes no difference to me.
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Rex

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 07:18:55 PM »
Pretty much, with Dialect differences of course.  Consider the difference between the English spoken just in Great Britain areas.  And that's before the bad grammar like "Cockney".

~Rex

Oi, lay off th' Cockney, willya?

:lol: Just kidding. I'm not even from the UK so it makes no difference to me.

'Sall Good.  We Colonists have to deal with Cajun, Ebonics, Brooklyn, and Lawyer Speak.

~Rex  :D
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ThAnswr

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 07:25:55 PM »
Pretty much, with Dialect differences of course.  Consider the difference between the English spoken just in Great Britain areas.  And that's before the bad grammar like "Cockney".

~Rex

Oi, lay off th' Cockney, willya?

:lol: Just kidding. I'm not even from the UK so it makes no difference to me.

'Sall Good.  We Colonists have to deal with Cajun, Ebonics, Brooklyn, and Lawyer Speak.

~Rex  :D


You got a problem with Brooklyn?   :mrgreen:
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Wids

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 09:05:49 PM »
Pretty much, with Dialect differences of course.  Consider the difference between the English spoken just in Great Britain areas.  And that's before the bad grammar like "Cockney".

~Rex

Oi, lay off th' Cockney, willya?

:lol: Just kidding. I'm not even from the UK so it makes no difference to me.

'Sall Good.  We Colonists have to deal with Cajun, Ebonics, Brooklyn, and Lawyer Speak.

~Rex  :D


You got a problem with Brooklyn?   :mrgreen:
Everyone has a problem with them there New England sorts.  Texans an' all the folks in the Deep South east o' here still blame them sidewindin', yellowbacked tenderfoots who couldn't successfully look through a ladder with three tries for everything from North Korea to Mad Cow Disease to Barack Obama sellin' this country to the Ayrabs.  All y'all cottonbutt Yankees are just beggin' for the South to rise again, ain'tcha?   :P

Oh, you live in Florida?  Sheeeyit, you're 'bout as Southern as that ol' Sinead O'Connor gal.  So shush, you.  :P

vlowe72

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 10:14:27 PM »
Everyone has a problem with them there New England sorts.  Texans an' all the folks in the Deep South east o' here still blame them sidewindin', yellowbacked tenderfoots who couldn't successfully look through a ladder with three tries for everything from North Korea to Mad Cow Disease to Barack Obama sellin' this country to the Ayrabs.  All y'all cottonbutt Yankees are just beggin' for the South to rise again, ain'tcha?   :P

Oh, you live in Florida?  Sheeeyit, you're 'bout as Southern as that ol' Sinead O'Connor gal.  So shush, you.  :P

Ah was tehn yahrs old 'fore I found out damn yankee was two words.  :)

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failed.bard

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 10:15:17 PM »
  The language parallels are listed in the native character resource thread, second page.  I'm at work, so I can't link right now.

Wids

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 11:52:34 PM »
Ah was tehn yahrs old 'fore I found out damn yankee was two words.  :)
Ya mean it's not just one?   :shock:

(Also, click my link above.  I quoted those Ravenloft language parallels therein.  ;) )

DarkWyvern

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2009, 01:10:15 AM »
Kara-Tur:

Quote
The Empire:

Languages
There is one main tongue in the Empire, and this is called Kao te Shou, or High Shou. While each province has its own dialects of this language, all are close enough to each other to allow clear conversation.

Quote
T'u Lung:

The language is the same as Shou, with local variations and accents that sometimes render it difficult to understand.


Quote
Tabot:

Tabotan common is easily learned: la means mountain pass, tso means lake, chu is a river, and the word gompa means monastery. The language and the people have remained a simple lot. They speak a common Tabotan language with thick local accents and know very little of the trade tongue. An interpreter is needed for more than superficial conversation.




Quote
The Plain of Horses:

Vocabulary is very precise. Asked about a particular camel, the owner will accurately tell its age, lineage, color, and personality quirks. There are specific names for hills, streams, trees, and other landmarks, but the names may vary according to the person asked. The major tribes have their own dialects. Many have developed alphabets which are easier to master than the written symbols used by other nations in Kara-Tur.



That's what I got for now :P

Emomina

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2009, 04:09:52 AM »
My understanding is that if someone from Gothic Earth's Japan (or Faerun's Kozakura) were to be misted to Vallaki and met my Rokuma character, then they could understand each other and my character would never believe in a million years that that person was Japanese, and not Rokuma. I could see the two arguing over why the other calls the language something different; Rokuma vs Nihongo (Japanese).  I think it is both a convenience, allowing us to use real world linguistic knowledge to flesh out vocabulary, and also adds to the surrealism of the Domain of Dread by having the seemingly impossible occur. By having two different languages develop separately but identical, its adds to the spookiness effect of the setting.
So a Romanian from Gothic Earth should speak and understand Balok, but he will insists the language is called Romānă, and be super confused as to why these Barovians call it Balok.
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Kaspar

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2009, 04:12:43 AM »
Yeah, I was wondering that myself.

Somebody comes from Romania, meets somebody Barovian, and I think they can understand eachother.. The language is based off of Romania. I commonly see people using "Da" "Nu" "Multumesc" "Bun" "Bine" and all of those words in the middle of sentences, which are all romanian.

failed.bard

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 04:46:57 AM »
I had used latin for my example due to the language not being taught in a full capacity during the most common periods.  A latin reading bible scholar would have never learned how to incorporate all the verb forms, and would have difficulty keeping up at first.  They would learn the nuances fairly quickly if they had a Darkonese speaker there to teach them.
  With regards to most of the languages, the names of animals and mythical creatures in Barovia not native to their region and folklore would be unknown to them.  Again, they would have a basic grasp of the other language, and should be able to communicate well enough if sticking to the non-formal word forms.
  My druid Lilindi learned common from books, so spent a fair amount of time early on asking for definitions of less common words she came across.
  I think it would be more like the difference between varients of english than actual differences.  Probably 80-90% of the languages would be the same.

Wids

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 08:58:31 AM »
Kara-Tur:

Quote
The Empire:

Languages
There is one main tongue in the Empire, and this is called Kao te Shou, or High Shou. While each province has its own dialects of this language, all are close enough to each other to allow clear conversation.

Quote
T'u Lung:

The language is the same as Shou, with local variations and accents that sometimes render it difficult to understand.


Quote
Tabot:

Tabotan common is easily learned: la means mountain pass, tso means lake, chu is a river, and the word gompa means monastery. The language and the people have remained a simple lot. They speak a common Tabotan language with thick local accents and know very little of the trade tongue. An interpreter is needed for more than superficial conversation.




Quote
The Plain of Horses:

Vocabulary is very precise. Asked about a particular camel, the owner will accurately tell its age, lineage, color, and personality quirks. There are specific names for hills, streams, trees, and other landmarks, but the names may vary according to the person asked. The major tribes have their own dialects. Many have developed alphabets which are easier to master than the written symbols used by other nations in Kara-Tur.



That's what I got for now :P
Don't forget Wa and Kozakura.  We wouldn't want to disappoint all these Japanophiles, would we?   :mrgreen:

Also, nice new avatar you have there.   8)

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2009, 07:35:44 PM »
Actually no, your character couldn't. Even though we all know languages in Ravenloft are based on(read: copied from) real world languages, they're not considered the same. Case in point, the domain of Odiare, which was pulled by the Mists from Gothic Earth's Italy. Odiarans all speak Italian. Domains of Dread, pg. 93:

Quote
This domain was snatched from the Gothic Earth setting, and the language spoken here is Italian. Most heroes who reach the Island will need to use magical means in order to understand the natives, or to make themselves understood.

So no, your Gothic Earth Romanian wouldn't automatically understand Barovian. The ruling is that characters from other D&D worlds that have a "common" tongue communicate with Ravenloft natives in Common (though technically Ravenloft doesn't have common, we bent the rules on this to make it simpler). Gothic Earth doesn't have a common tongue, however.

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Adul

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2009, 05:17:55 AM »
That certainly is interesting news, Blue. So a character from Gothic Earth has no way to communicate in Ravenloft other than to start learning the languages there?

Also, in the past few days I roleplayed Maria with an accent and grammar errors, assuming she would know Vaasi based on her prior English knowledge. I'm not sure now how to resolve this.

DM Macabre

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2009, 07:37:01 AM »
Just assume she has spent enough time in Barovia to learn some balok or perhaps common.

Bluebomber4evr

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2009, 12:32:49 AM »
That certainly is interesting news, Blue. So a character from Gothic Earth has no way to communicate in Ravenloft other than to start learning the languages there?

Also, in the past few days I roleplayed Maria with an accent and grammar errors, assuming she would know Vaasi based on her prior English knowledge. I'm not sure now how to resolve this.
Vaasi isn't even remotely like English, though. If anything, it resembles Danish.

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peluscious

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Re: The link between real languages and Ravenloft languages
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2009, 08:45:16 AM »
I assume Gothic Earth characters have the knowledge of common magically put into their heads by the mists. Unless the player doesn't want their character to know common (wich makes some fun RP situations).

Am i wrong to assume that happens?
I think it makes sense, since in Darkon after some months people even believe they lived there their whole lives, even remembering old facts and visiting relatives tombs.