Healer's kits are worthless

[Rex]

Been awhile.. Though I could have sworn that Mad Doks healing kits took care of poison/disease.

They changed it.

~Rex

[failed.bard]

  The heaaling kits the way they are now are powerful enough.  Bandaging from a person with decent skill combined with eating, for a cost of roughly 10 fangs, will take any character to full health on rest.  Resting also removes the stat drains from being poisoned.
  Allowing a 4 fang healing kit to cure diseases as well would be too much, and again, negate the value of the PC driven herbalism market.  Natural healing is always going to be less effective than magical healing in the short term, and it should be.

[Mcskinns]

  The heaaling kits the way they are now are powerful enough.  Bandaging from a person with decent skill combined with eating, for a cost of roughly 10 fangs, will take any character to full health on rest.  Resting also removes the stat drains from being poisoned.
  Allowing a 4 fang healing kit to cure diseases as well would be too much, and again, negate the value of the PC driven herbalism market.  Natural healing is always going to be less effective than magical healing in the short term, and it should be.

I don't entirely agree....

Since the Healing skill is used.... it would make sense for the person applying the bandages to go through other "mundane" processes... cleaning the wounds, possibly drawing out the poisons or putting a small poultice of some sort over the wound before bandaging...

While I don't think an immediate cure should be allowed, I would think a save to recover from the disease on rest is worthwhile.  Its still not guaranteed.

[Bad_Bud]

Yeah, it's not just four fangs, it's an investment of skill points.  Herbalism requires no skill points at all, and almost everyone is an herbalist these days, so I wouldn't say there's so much of a market anymore either.

[tzaeru]

  The heaaling kits the way they are now are powerful enough.  Bandaging from a person with decent skill combined with eating, for a cost of roughly 10 fangs, will take any character to full health on rest.  Resting also removes the stat drains from being poisoned.
  Allowing a 4 fang healing kit to cure diseases as well would be too much, and again, negate the value of the PC driven herbalism market.  Natural healing is always going to be less effective than magical healing in the short term, and it should be.

I don't entirely agree....

Since the Healing skill is used.... it would make sense for the person applying the bandages to go through other "mundane" processes... cleaning the wounds, possibly drawing out the poisons or putting a small poultice of some sort over the wound before bandaging...

While I don't think an immediate cure should be allowed, I would think a save to recover from the disease on rest is worthwhile.  Its still not guaranteed.

I agree, I think the healing kits ought to do more. Although removing poisons after a bite, especially if done by something fit for administrating it such as snake fangs, is impossible without antidotes. Sucking wounds or cutting the skin near them does not help, usually it actually harms the situation.

Make 'em healing kits more useful so I can be more proud of Delardious' high Heal - He likes to touch people. 

Yeah, it's not just four fangs, it's an investment of skill points.  Herbalism requires no skill points at all, and almost everyone is an herbalist these days, so I wouldn't say there's so much of a market anymore either.

At least in my case, I almost never even used the market since it frankly was impossible to afford enough potions to ANY of my characters to use in dungeon. So the times I got any, they were just used for the possible PvP in some far future, but I almost never PvP.

[failed.bard]

  Most of my characters have decent heal, there's no reason why any person that spent time adventuring wouldn't want to know how to keep themselves reasonably healthy.
  Dribo had heal 16, Lili 21, Maria 18 (21 with the staff of Imhotep equipped), and Wilhelm 20.  Looking through both of my logins, I seem to only have one character whose heal isn't at least equal to their level.

Since the Healing skill is used.... it would make sense for the person applying the bandages to go through other "mundane" processes... cleaning the wounds, possibly drawing out the poisons or putting a small poultice of some sort over the wound before bandaging...

While I don't think an immediate cure should be allowed, I would think a save to recover from the disease on rest is worthwhile.  Its still not guaranteed.

  If this could be implimented to only work when you rested, and only be attemptable once by a given person per disease, then I think it would be worth the Devs considering.  I'm not a fan of an instant cure in a box, but treatment plus bed rest makes sense for recovery.

[Wids]

He used to sell actual healing kits, but tthey were removed, probably around when the drain got opened up.  Actual healing kits for sale removes the need for PC herbalists making healing potions, especially since (as far as I know) using a healing kit in combat doesn't prompt an AOO.

Using a healing kit in combat also doesn't heal you, at least not on this server.  You still have to rest in order to reap the benefits...and, of course, trying to rest in the middle of combat is a fast road to the Near Ethereal.  I don't see why the devs would remove the rest requisite if they added regen and such to special healers' kits.  

If this could be implimented to only work when you rested, and only be attemptable once by a given person per disease, then I think it would be worth the Devs considering.  I'm not a fan of an instant cure in a box, but treatment plus bed rest makes sense for recovery.

In the main campaign of NWN, I soloed that green dragon mostly because of those +10 healers' kits.  Near Death, right click, left click, aaahhhhhhfweesh, Uninjured.  I actually felt a twinge of guilt afterwards after basically buying my victory over a dragon...via tons and tons of heal kits.  

[Falcifer]

Healing to full HP on rest? Heck, take any of the many Clerics out with you, they'll sure as hell heal up before rest with no worries. What would be useful if some of the fighter classes had reliable ways to heal themselves, as well as the magic-fearing ones of us out there, that didn't involve resting or chugging down magic potions.

I'm sure a Barovian with high heal skill would be appreciated in the Garda as a physician, and would be a lot more appropriate than these magic-fearing Barovians chugging their healing potions (Which, whilst they accept, they'd never choose if a mundane alternative were available).

[peluscious]

A half off-topic note:
The chirurgeon should be more useful. Like selling healing kits and such.
Or being able to cure poison and disease in a mundane way.

[yakon]

A half off-topic note:
The chirurgeon should be more useful. Like selling healing kits and such.
Or being able to cure poison and disease in a mundane way.

stich up wounds like that caliban in the sewer

[Kaspar]

I'm sure a Barovian with high heal skill would be appreciated in the Garda as a physician, and would be a lot more appropriate than these magic-fearing Barovians chugging their healing potions (Which, whilst they accept, they'd never choose if a mundane alternative were available).

My Barovian Guard PC is a 'certified' medic. Has a whole whopping 16 heal skill, with the greater focus in it to back it up. It's proven to be a good contributor to RP, and I don't mind the current state of heal kits. I do agree that it should assist in curing poison though. 

[ethinos]

I do agree that it should assist in curing poison though. 

And a chance of curing diseases. Poisons are usually pretty fast acting, requiring instant medical assistance upon contact, whereas diseases often take much longer to incapacitate someone.

[Kaspar]

I do agree that it should assist in curing poison though. 

And a chance of curing diseases. Poisons are usually pretty fast acting, requiring instant medical assistance upon contact, whereas diseases often take much longer to incapacitate someone.

True, but I just don't see somebody with a med pak curing a disease. I'm sure that could be debated in dozens of different ways but.. Still don't see it. Not that it wouldn't be nice!

[ethinos]

Honestly, without penicillin and other wonder drugs, most diseases are really untreatable in a medieval era. However, with the right poultices, herbs, and other amenities, you can help someone recover faster from a disease or suffer less until it is cured.

But poisons are also just as unlikely to be cured by someone from that time period. Fixing the symptoms though can often help in the long run and make surviving a greater possibility.

[Dreaderick]

I do agree that it should assist in curing poison though. 

And a chance of curing diseases. Poisons are usually pretty fast acting, requiring instant medical assistance upon contact, whereas diseases often take much longer to incapacitate someone.

Diseases also take much longer than several minutes to get to the point where the infected suffers negative consequences. So if a NWN diseases makes you sick almost instantaneously, you might as well be able to cure it at a smiilar speed.

[Wids]

Of course, this also begs the question: In a world of magic and monsters, how much do the laws of our reality really hold sway here?  In League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the movie, not the books), they had automobiles and fully automatic firearms in the 19th Century.  Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves had a spyglass in the early Middle Ages.  In the Frankenstein story's various incarnations, Victor Frankenstein gave life to his infamous Creature through technology which wasn't actually available at the time.  Various tabletop roleplaying games set in parallel versions of our own world's history have relied on such anachronisms, such as the hot air balloons, primitive aircraft, repeating firearms and self-propelled siege engines in the Renaissance period of Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade.  Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?  

[ThAnswr]

Of course, this also begs the question: In a world of magic and monsters, how much do the laws of our reality really hold sway here?  In League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the movie, not the books), they had automobiles and fully automatic firearms in the 19th Century.  Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves had a spyglass in the early Middle Ages.  In the Frankenstein story's various incarnations, Victor Frankenstein gave life to his infamous Creature through technology which wasn't actually available at the time.  Various tabletop roleplaying games set in parallel versions of our own world's history have relied on such anachronisms, such as the hot air balloons, primitive aircraft, repeating firearms and self-propelled siege engines in the Renaissance period of Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade.  Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?  

IMO, you check reality at the door when enter a fictitious fantasy world based around a fictitious fantasy story.  

[Falcifer]

Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?

That's a point. Is it cheese to RP a Potion of Antidote as just a mundane chemical/herbal remedy instead of a magical elixir imbues with divine magic?

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?

That's a point. Is it cheese to RP a Potion of Antidote as just a mundane chemical/herbal remedy instead of a magical elixir imbues with divine magic?

i'd say yes...

[Wids]

Of course, this also begs the question: In a world of magic and monsters, how much do the laws of our reality really hold sway here?  In League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (the movie, not the books), they had automobiles and fully automatic firearms in the 19th Century.  Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves had a spyglass in the early Middle Ages.  In the Frankenstein story's various incarnations, Victor Frankenstein gave life to his infamous Creature through technology which wasn't actually available at the time.  Various tabletop roleplaying games set in parallel versions of our own world's history have relied on such anachronisms, such as the hot air balloons, primitive aircraft, repeating firearms and self-propelled siege engines in the Renaissance period of Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade.  Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?  

IMO, you check reality at the door when enter a fictitious fantasy world based around a fictitious fantasy story.  

...of course, we have to have some degree of reality in that setting.  Otherwise, we'd be giving free license to the cheesers who want to tear a stick off a tree and whack it across the back of an umber hulk's head for an instant knock-out, something which isn't even all that likely when you do it to a human.  

Who's to say that some elven doctor didn't come up with an early antibiotic or antivenom somewhere?

That's a point. Is it cheese to RP a Potion of Antidote as just a mundane chemical/herbal remedy instead of a magical elixir imbues with divine magic?

i'd say yes...

...and yet we can brew Potions of Neutralize Poison with mere herbalism.  Grave Mold + Lich Grass + Gray Puffball or Adder's Tongue...something like that.  

[ethinos]

I don't see why we would need to check reality at the door when we play a game system that tries very hard to simulate reality and physics. The problem with a magical setting is that the more magic that is present the less need to further technological pursuits. Why create something when magic easily replicates the same effect? Still, there is plenty to borrow from our own past that we can carry over to any medieval setting.

[ThAnswr]

Something tells me we aren't in Kansas anymore when you enter a land run by a vampire populated by other vampires, witches, werewolves, wererats, black/white magic, mages, sorcerors, elves, halflings, etc. 

[Wids]

The problem with a magical setting is that the more magic that is present the less need to further technological pursuits. Why create something when magic easily replicates the same effect?

Heck, I have an answer for that one.  I used to be a Storyteller for the old World of Darkness games, one of which was Mage: The Ascension--along with its spin-off game, Mage: The Sorcerers Crusade.  The rivalry between magic and science is the entire focus of the Mage games; in The Sorcerers Crusade, we have the Church and other dominant religions in other nations of the world trying to suppress both the pagan magicians (primal mages such as druids, witches and tribal shamans) and the godless, heretical upstarts like Galileo and Copernicus who champion this newfangled "science" and "technology" stuff.  The Order of Reason (aka. the Daedalans) wants to cast off the shackles of the religious hierarchies and make technology available to all the people of the world, and they start gaining such ground that some religious mystics and pagan sorcerers form an alliance--the Council of Nine--against the Order of Reason.  Come the modern age of Ascension, the Order of Reason has officially cast aside God and religion entirely, they've morphed into the Technocracy, they've blossomed into a global shadow government thanks to the ever-growing support of the Muggles...I mean Sleepers, and they're winning control of all consensual reality by a landslide, leaving the modern-day religious mystics and pagan sorcerers of the Council of Nine huddling together for survival against the Technocrats.  It's a shadow war, and those shadows are hiding people armed with magic wands and voodoo dolls trading blows with people armed with plasma rifles and neuroscramblers.

In a nutshell, it takes a special enlightened individual to become a mage, whether that mage takes the form of a sorcerer or a hypertechnician.  The Council of Nine wants to keep the status of mage special--cautioning that it would be foolish to force mankind to ascend into magehood before mankind is ready--while the Technocracy wants to make magic (in the form of ultra-advanced technology) available to every man, woman and child on the planet...and if mankind isn't ready for it, the Technocrats will force them to be ready for it...or so they think.

So that's basically one version of the rivalry between the two.  It just boils down to two different philosophies vying for dominance over each other, whether your opponent's a "godless artificer ungrateful to his Creator and/or disrespectful towards the spirits of the earth" or a "superstitious mud-hut-dwelling Luddite who prefers the comfort of myths over the revelations of science and reality".

[Bad_Bud]

I don't see why we would need to check reality at the door when we play a game system that tries very hard to simulate reality and physics. The problem with a magical setting is that the more magic that is present the less need to further technological pursuits. Why create something when magic easily replicates the same effect? Still, there is plenty to borrow from our own past that we can carry over to any medieval setting.

Check out Jusuf's philosophies then.

[ethinos]

Wids, my friend, I am familiar with Mage, and the other World of Darkness games, but your post only barely touches on my point...

What I mean is, in a world with high levels of magic, technological growth becomes stagnant. The need to create something already duplicated by magic is redundant.

Vikki, just because we play in a world unlike Kansas, doesn't mean that things like gravity and general medical knowledge don't exist.

Bad_Bud... Jusuf who?