You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Healer's kits are worthless  (Read 12823 times)

Jana

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Healer's kits are worthless
« on: May 25, 2009, 05:41:26 PM »
I've noticed a few things with my healer's kit happy character. There's no point to using them, and to pick heal as a skill is utterly worthless on PotM. The way they work as I'm sure most of you know is that they can be used to stablize a bleeding person (although the roll doesn't show, you either succeed or you do not and every time I have tried I have not.) or you can 'heal' a lot more than a potion would offer. However you do not actually regain that hp until you rest. Before bedrolls this might have been balenced, but now that a bedroll will heal you full hp there is no reason to bother with healing kits. It should also be noted you can use as many potions as you want on a single person, you can only use one healer's kit per rest.

What I propose to solve the problem is that look at the script for the 'stop bleeding via kit' and see if you can get the Roll/DC to show and on when just bandaging your wounds it grants a small regeneration healing the amount that you would have if you 'rested' Its not fair for it to instantly heal like potions... but its also not fair that a bedroll that weighs just as much as a healing kit can be used by the whole party and do much more without the use of a skill. My method provides a reasonable balence. You do not have to rest, but you do have to 'wait' to get the full benefit and being able to see what DC you need to get the wounds to stop is just being polite. If I don't have any chance of it at all why not throw a potion on them? but if I do save a little fang and do it the old fashion way.
Jana - Red Vardo Leathercrafter
Jacho - Lich Wannabe
Fiona - Copper Smith
Janie - MIA

ethinos

  • Keepin' it hardcore since 2nd edition AD&D
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3705
  • When in doubt, fireball.
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 06:46:24 PM »
Don't healing kits still cure diseases and poisons though?
Torgan Ironshield: Battlerager and smith
Wirth Darmington II: Roguish noble
Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Nefensis

  • MIA
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 7170
  • Gaming wench )0(
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 06:50:40 PM »
AH! no.  :lol: that would make them useful.

Stela Cojocaru - barovian snake
Crina Ovidiu - barovian guard

Bad_Bud

  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 4576
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 07:56:09 PM »
Bedrolls don't heal you to full HP anymore.  That was changed a LONG time ago.  Healing kits are very useful, and I carry a lot of them.  I heal to full health when I use a healing kit and a bedroll, but that's on my 16 con character.  The other ones don't always get all the hitpoints.

Wids

  • We don't need no stinkin' avatars!
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 08:58:39 PM »
I thought that a bedroll weighs considerably more than a healer's kit...5.5 pounds for a bedroll, the last time I checked.  :?

But, like Bud said, bedrolls aren't a surefire way to heal back up to Max HP, especially if you're a Level 11 Ranger resting on a very-Near-Death 3 Hit Points.  Heal kits combined with a decent Heal skill, a bedroll and a food ration noshed right before naptime usually do the trick, though.

LoLJohnFerro

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1248
  • Currently playing: Dragoon Sae'rid
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 10:31:58 PM »
Wids i have a better question whats an level 11 ranger doing with out healen potions or equips?

Wids

  • We don't need no stinkin' avatars!
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 11:08:52 PM »
Wids i have a better question whats an level 11 ranger doing with out healen potions or equips?
Lecture me on how easy or difficult it is to run out of healing potions after you yourself get a character to Level 11 or 12.  :|

(Viorica was Level 12 before a Mistwalk and demotion.  Keeping yourself in healing potions doesn't get any easier as you level up on this server.)

LoLJohnFerro

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1248
  • Currently playing: Dragoon Sae'rid
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 11:15:22 PM »
wids john is 13 :D

DM Nocturne

  • Sanguis Noctis
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3262
  • Vampires don't do dishes
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2009, 01:43:17 AM »
what a pwrgmr.

Rave

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 257
  • Shoo!
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2009, 01:57:03 AM »
Why not use the Heal skill as just another RP source? like influence or antagonize?

I've spent points with my wizard, to represent her knowledge on human anatomy and understanding the way the body works.

Now, it doesn't mean you have to do the same thing, but I think they can be just used for more than stopping bleeding in/after a dungeon crawl, they can also help have normal none pixel bashing related fun :)

Just my two cents though.

Jana

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2009, 02:30:55 AM »
I thought they still did heal you all the way up and bedrolls were 0.5lb oops. oh well, if they don't heal you all the way up then yeah they're still useful in that regrad. Though, it would still be nice to see the DC for a heal check to stop bleeding.
Jana - Red Vardo Leathercrafter
Jacho - Lich Wannabe
Fiona - Copper Smith
Janie - MIA

peluscious

  • Undead Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 372
  • The incredible off-topic man!
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2009, 09:38:05 AM »
It would be nice if the kits could cure poison and disease, even if with high DCs.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but now the only way to cure these things are with magic or potions. It would be nice if there were a more mundane way to do that.

Wids

  • We don't need no stinkin' avatars!
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2009, 09:39:37 AM »
wids john is 13 :D
Yeah...and the same band of higher-level buddies who powerleveled you up that high keep you perpetually healed every step of the way, yes?   :dubious:

It would be nice if the kits could cure poison and disease, even if with high DCs.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but now the only way to cure these things are with magic or potions. It would be nice if there were a more mundane way to do that.
Like cutting little grooves in the snake bite wounds and sucking the poison out.  Or feeding you a ton of charcoal to neutralize that poisoned sword wound.  Or getting a hold of that fancy-dancy "swamp fever vaccine" stuff from Lamordia....  ;)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 09:43:23 AM by Wids »

LoLJohnFerro

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1248
  • Currently playing: Dragoon Sae'rid
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2009, 12:01:21 AM »
I do not powergame ever john has gone underground so he raids dungens solo and such he has mage levels he buffs himself and i have plenty of healing due to the fact to take out so much undead its not funny so pleae do not call me a powergamer hurts meh feelings.

:(
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 12:15:09 AM by john ferro »

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2009, 12:16:46 AM »
  This thread has long since served its purpose.  Could it be locked please?

Jana

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2009, 03:33:58 AM »
Agreed, the issue was raised and noted, whatever is done about it rests with our hard working dev team.
Jana - Red Vardo Leathercrafter
Jacho - Lich Wannabe
Fiona - Copper Smith
Janie - MIA

ethinos

  • Keepin' it hardcore since 2nd edition AD&D
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3705
  • When in doubt, fireball.
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2009, 06:03:13 AM »
I typically like to use healing kits to help recover from wounds before I rest. My higher level characters, when near death, need over a hundred hit points of recovery. Since I often don't wish to carry tents and bedrolls around (my characters really aren't the outdoorsmen types that expect to live off the land for days at a time), healing kits are rather useful. Added to that, kits are easily purchased from npc vendors whereas healing potions are always in short supply. I always prefer to leave potions for combat and pre-combat uses, and other means for when you get some rest in.

However, I would like to see the healing kits cure diseases and poisons, even if you have to rest to actually get the effects removed after having the kit used on you. Heal is a nice skill that adds RP potential and a useful purpose in game and I'd like to see more emphasis put on natural healing and less on supernatural.
Torgan Ironshield: Battlerager and smith
Wirth Darmington II: Roguish noble
Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Falcifer

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2009, 03:25:45 PM »
I personally like the idea of Healing Kits working a bit like the Mad Dok.

Can only gain benefit from a healing kit once a day, during which you recieve a certain amount of Regen based on a Heal check for one turn, whilst for the duration losing a ridiculous amount of movement speed/spell failure/strength loss/etc so you can't just use it as a regen spell.

Less than 18, just one point of regen for a turn, heals 10 HP total.
18-24, get two points of regen and a chance to cure poison/disease.
25-39, three points of regen and a higher chance to cure poison/disease.
30-35, four points of regen and a chance to get the effect of a Lesser Restoration.
36+, five points of regen for a total heal of 50 HP, disease/poison cured, and some other benefit like a nice helping of temporary HP?

Now THAT would make Heal a skill worth investing in, no?

( P.S, just becuase some folks decide to go off-topic dosen't mean shouting for closure is the best thing to do, when you could just get it back on-topic with the same post... )
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 03:40:00 PM by Falcifer »

Jana

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2009, 03:53:42 PM »
( P.S, just becuase some folks decide to go off-topic dosen't mean shouting for closure is the best thing to do, when you could just get it back on-topic with the same post... )

I started the thread I can shout for a closure whenever I like :P j/k

But on a serious note your suggestion certianly would make healing kits worth investing in but it also is slightly overpowered. I'm not looking for healing kits to be the best method in the game, just that characters who choose to be mudane (100% non-magical) have a practical way of healing). The disease and poison curing make good sense.... offering up to 5 hp regen as strong as the 7th spell level cleric spell Regeneration. Thats hardly natural.
Jana - Red Vardo Leathercrafter
Jacho - Lich Wannabe
Fiona - Copper Smith
Janie - MIA

ethinos

  • Keepin' it hardcore since 2nd edition AD&D
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3705
  • When in doubt, fireball.
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2009, 06:25:02 PM »
While making the Healing Kit act like Mad Dok is interesting, I too think its a bit overpowered. And no need to reduce it to once a day, just make sure you need to rest before the effects take place. That way healing kits and resting are tied to one another.
Torgan Ironshield: Battlerager and smith
Wirth Darmington II: Roguish noble
Kurgh: A simple herdsman

Wids

  • We don't need no stinkin' avatars!
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 942
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »
While making the Healing Kit act like Mad Dok is interesting, I too think its a bit overpowered.
...unless Mad Dok's healing kits cost, say, 300 or 400 Fang each.  As it stands, given the current effectiveness of the regular healer kits, there's not much need to invest more than 10 or so ranks in Heal.  These special Mad Dok kits would encourage some people to roll up a few Heal-heavy master physicians in short order.  :)

Plus, it would make our little caliban chirurgeon even more useful.  As it stands, the only real reason to visit Rattok is to buy his potion bottles; his healer kits are pricier than the going rate offered by other nearby merchants (such as Navarre), his poisons are weak, he can't cure disease, he can't cure poison, he can't remove drains, he can't raise or resurrect the dead, he's unfortunately located in a safe rest spot which can heal you fully and recharge any spells and special abilities you may have, and his regeneration buff barely lasts long enough to get you back to the Abandoned Tunnels...and that's if you have monk speed or Expie Retreat running.  Letting him sell healing kits which are more potent--and more expensive--than the normal variety could make Rattok one of the more influential and popular NPCs on the server...at least among the PCs who aren't too good to rub shoulders with throngs of calibans and other outcasts.  :P
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 10:28:59 PM by Wids »

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2009, 02:29:46 AM »
He used to sell actual healing kits, but tthey were removed, probably around when the drain got opened up.  Actual healing kits for sale removes the need for PC herbalists making healing potions, especially since (as far as I know) using a healing kit in combat doesn't prompt an AOO.

Dreaderick

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2009, 08:02:29 AM »
Would it be possible to add healer kits to the crafting system? I.e. that herbalists or alchemists can make healing kits that have a chance to cure poison or diseases (partially) based on the crafters heal skill?


I hope you have not been leading a double life, pretending to be wicked and being really good all the time. That would be hypocrisy. - Oscar Wilde

Kaspar

  • Guest
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2009, 10:07:45 AM »
Been awhile.. Though I could have sworn that Mad Doks healing kits took care of poison/disease.

Falcifer

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 102
Re: Healer's kits are worthless
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2009, 01:04:40 PM »
Was just a basic guess at things, not an outright command for how they should work. Of course the various strengths will be subject to balancing.

But still, I see no reason why getting 20 health back and a chance at being cured of poison or disease is overpowered, considering what the average Cleric can do, and not to mention potions. The higher level ones maybe would need a higher DC, but I see no reason to make them so weak they're pointless compared to potions or Clerics.

If you think about it, the only people who are feasibly going to get very high Heal skills are high level people who've specced fully into it (And hence, 30 HP is just going to be a chunk of their huge health, the Lesser Restoration a convenience) or divine casters with high Wisdom who already have Healing spells anyway.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 01:06:38 PM by Falcifer »