Author Topic: Demonologists  (Read 2101 times)

Kung Fu Orc

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Demonologists
« on: May 25, 2009, 12:00:16 AM »
Yes. Another death. Yes, this place STILL needs to be balanced, at least on the upper levels. The epic level mages are still there, their AI has them spam spells and dispells relentlessly. At first, I thought it was a DM quite frankly being a prick. And don't tell me it's about the epic level experiance because even with a party of 20's there is no way to fight the mages that come PRE-BUFFED with Premotion and greater spell mantle. I repeat, they are FULLY BUFFED before they even register you.

it's stupid.

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boompowclash

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2009, 12:09:54 AM »
There are certain strategies that permit a duo of characters to do some carnage in that place.  Even around levels 12-14.

The upper levels you mention, are really the choke points that require a decent party and some cohesive tactics.

If anything the Demonologists should have even more "pre-buffs' IMO because their fiendish servants are alerting them to danger ahead of time, familiars etc that are not accounted for.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2009, 12:26:11 AM »
Have a buffing and debuffing wizard. Nothing like Greater Dispelling to knock the sails out of some Greater Demonologists to allow the buffed front liners to smack them down in two rounds.

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Heretic

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2009, 12:27:26 AM »
I see groups and duos rip that place apart rather easily when facing AI alone. Have also ran the place against big groups, I'd say those big groups make those Demonologists and the DM behind them, sweat how much they are successful against them.






LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2009, 01:17:55 AM »
Hey and always think of it this way greater risk greater reward?
Prehaps up the loot to balance with the difficulty?
Just my thoughts.

failed.bard

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2009, 03:26:53 AM »
  Premonition and greater spell mantle are next to useless without a damage shield.  A hasted pure melee class character with a non-magical weapon is still going to kill him one on one just by KD spamming.
  Draw the weaker enemies away from him, or run past them and kill the mages first.  It's all in the strategies in that place.

k_moustakas

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2009, 03:29:05 AM »
Both the loot and the challenge are excellent I think... What you really need is a well thought out strategy. Like a dude with a scythe and power attack (and people staying OUT of his way) or someone with spell breach... spell breach... spell breach... You don't even have to knockdown, although it's pretty cool :) If anything, it's the ONLY dungeon posing ANY amount of challenge to higher level parties - note, PARTIES. There is no other dungeon that can challenge at all a high level party excepting some silly bosses who, again, it's only a matter of figuring out what makes them tick. DMs excluded :p

What I seriously don't get is the fiendish abberation-large fiendish abberation /use darkness or just die*/ strategy of those no save/no discipline ranged-touch-attack-stay-knocked-down-till-you-die bolts :)

* Or rather, don't go there until the place is MAX spawn so there aren't any normal or large abberations. I mean... for crying out loud, that place is easier on max spawn than at any lesser than max spawn.
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Metal_ash

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2009, 04:56:53 AM »
Indeed it is a dangerous place that, but as mentioned it can be handled...
But not much need to go wrong there before hell breaks loose, and with that said it often means deaths.
I like that place and you have to think twice even before head inside there and you have to make sure everyone knows what to do when face them mages and other dangers inside there.

But i do agree with K_moustakas, Them KD bolts is nasty and in my opinion rather silly as there is no save against them at all, at least there could be a discipline check against them cause if they do hit home you are dead rather soonish.

mayvind

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2009, 06:35:12 AM »
But i hate the caster there they CHEAT !!! they have UNLIMITE SPELLS So they cast all day long, spaming all day long !  :lol:

tzaeru

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2009, 09:10:47 AM »
Few experiences I've had:

Yes. Another death. Yes, this place STILL needs to be balanced, at least on the upper levels. The epic level mages are still there, their AI has them spam spells and dispells relentlessly. At first, I thought it was a DM quite frankly being a prick. And don't tell me it's about the epic level experiance because even with a party of 20's there is no way to fight the mages that come PRE-BUFFED with Premotion and greater spell mantle. I repeat, they are FULLY BUFFED before they even register you.

it's stupid.

At level 18, I found myself capable of soloing the True Demonologist room with my pure wizard. They have the spell mantle, and premonition; Yes. They have usually those -two- spell breachable spells.  ;) A simple combo of timestop, lesser breach and edvards clears out all of the demonologists. Or sometimes the true one and consumed ones need a few ice storms to make the point clear.

Another thing is that if packed with a fighter or cleric, I can simply haste him and watch him kill the smaller amounts of demonologists and help out with spell breaching in later stage. It's a very easy dungeon for a high level wizard combined with a high level fighter or cleric.

Indeed it is a dangerous place that, but as mentioned it can be handled...
But not much need to go wrong there before hell breaks loose, and with that said it often means deaths.
I like that place and you have to think twice even before head inside there and you have to make sure everyone knows what to do when face them mages and other dangers inside there.

But i do agree with K_moustakas, Them KD bolts is nasty and in my opinion rather silly as there is no save against them at all, at least there could be a discipline check against them cause if they do hit home you are dead rather soonish.

The KD bolts are easy to screw over. I got hit -once- with my paladin of level 12 and bard level 12. AC and 50% concealment was way enough to avoid most of the bolts. You can use low level summon to get them spam it. Any cleric can get enough AC to never be hit by the Aberrations, so being knockdowned wont even matter. Wizard can just put on Ethereal Visage and walk in the middle and not get hurt at all.

I haven't had much challenge out of the place without a DM after getting familiar with the main tactics, so I really think it's fine as it is, if even a little too easy considering the huge XP amount it might give. It's nicely one of the dungeons where you don't necessarily survive with a pure combination of huge AC and huge Damage, and I like it that way.

Mrjunkie

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2009, 09:17:28 AM »
I've spent quite a lot of time there as a ghost, the mages are powerfull, as it should be. But not overpower'd.
You can never appreciate a monster till you have a player/dm backing it, AI doesnt even break even on glimpsing what some monsters are capable of.

As for the mages, they have two pre-buffs on, they buff up more once folk start rampaging their way towards them.
I would like them to use more offencive spells other than their epic ones, fireball, haste, firebrand etc. It'd be a pleasant change from having Timestop then a crazy 100+ dmg spell hurled at you.
Also, they attack each other once getting caught in each others timestop. Never seen them actually kill each other, by then they've kissed and made up and decided that my arse is worth kicking.

As for the loot, it is very good in comparison to other places, the only problem is that not everyone can get a piece of the pie. 2-4 'great' toys, its a party dungeon, i've gone there with parties ranging from 4-8+.

Toys are just bonus's, as a player i smack myself with a proud message for seeing the place threw...aslong as i havnt died when turning each corner.

I say leave it as it is, i'm not sure what the xp is like, havnt had a proud message for a long long time. Might give em freaks a visit soon.

Eledaar

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2009, 10:54:24 AM »
only dungeon that still gets the adrenaline pumping. Not a weak monster in there on max spawn. And yes its doable for a 14+ duo
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Bad_Bud

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2009, 08:00:26 PM »
Few experiences I've had:

Yes. Another death. Yes, this place STILL needs to be balanced, at least on the upper levels. The epic level mages are still there, their AI has them spam spells and dispells relentlessly. At first, I thought it was a DM quite frankly being a prick. And don't tell me it's about the epic level experiance because even with a party of 20's there is no way to fight the mages that come PRE-BUFFED with Premotion and greater spell mantle. I repeat, they are FULLY BUFFED before they even register you.

it's stupid.

At level 18, I found myself capable of soloing the True Demonologist room with my pure wizard. They have the spell mantle, and premonition; Yes. They have usually those -two- spell breachable spells.  ;) A simple combo of timestop, lesser breach and edvards clears out all of the demonologists. Or sometimes the true one and consumed ones need a few ice storms to make the point clear.

Another thing is that if packed with a fighter or cleric, I can simply haste him and watch him kill the smaller amounts of demonologists and help out with spell breaching in later stage. It's a very easy dungeon for a high level wizard combined with a high level fighter or cleric.

Indeed it is a dangerous place that, but as mentioned it can be handled...
But not much need to go wrong there before hell breaks loose, and with that said it often means deaths.
I like that place and you have to think twice even before head inside there and you have to make sure everyone knows what to do when face them mages and other dangers inside there.

But i do agree with K_moustakas, Them KD bolts is nasty and in my opinion rather silly as there is no save against them at all, at least there could be a discipline check against them cause if they do hit home you are dead rather soonish.

The KD bolts are easy to screw over. I got hit -once- with my paladin of level 12 and bard level 12. AC and 50% concealment was way enough to avoid most of the bolts. You can use low level summon to get them spam it. Any cleric can get enough AC to never be hit by the Aberrations, so being knockdowned wont even matter. Wizard can just put on Ethereal Visage and walk in the middle and not get hurt at all.

I haven't had much challenge out of the place without a DM after getting familiar with the main tactics, so I really think it's fine as it is, if even a little too easy considering the huge XP amount it might give. It's nicely one of the dungeons where you don't necessarily survive with a pure combination of huge AC and huge Damage, and I like it that way.

You're still going to have to take your time to pull off any strategy.  And yes, of course, it's easy until you make a mistake -- but if you make a mistake and they throw off a timestop?  You're probably f***ed.


boompowclash

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2009, 08:17:15 PM »
Exactly... when more than one Horrid wilting hits the area the cards tend to fall a certain way.

However!  This is spoiler info!  The dungeon, is crazy hard as heck, but still manageable...

I shall say I love the place.  Its important... to never ever go alone.  But that goes for the rest of the server, mostly.

LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2009, 10:30:36 PM »
As my room mates said when they tried to get me to pitch in money to buy left4dead

You cant score with out four.

So every one who hears this take it to heart when going dungen diven bring a buddy or 4.

failed.bard

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2009, 02:25:42 AM »
Exactly... when more than one Horrid wilting hits the area the cards tend to fall a certain way.

However!  This is spoiler info!  The dungeon, is crazy hard as heck, but still manageable...

I shall say I love the place.  Its important... to never ever go alone.  But that goes for the rest of the server, mostly.

  Didn't Heretic say you had the only character he'd ever seen solo it on max spawn with every enlightened demonologist being DM possessed?

boompowclash

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2009, 03:17:36 AM »
That's correct, though as that pertains to Gameplay Balance, I don't think there are any other PCs with a combination of classes, template, and dark powers that could achieve that. (which is good, it should take a party)

mayvind

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2009, 05:34:25 AM »
That's correct, though as that pertains to Gameplay Balance, I don't think there are any other PCs with a combination of classes, template, and dark powers that could achieve that. (which is good, it should take a party)

*raised his hand* Errr i soloed that place and every place  :P

Of course i tend to die a lot too !  :lol: is part of the fun  :D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 05:38:02 AM by mayvind »

yakon

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2009, 06:20:21 AM »
Yes. Another death. Yes, this place STILL needs to be balanced, at least on the upper levels. The epic level mages are still there, their AI has them spam spells and dispells relentlessly. At first, I thought it was a DM quite frankly being a prick. And don't tell me it's about the epic level experiance because even with a party of 20's there is no way to fight the mages that come PRE-BUFFED with Premotion and greater spell mantle. I repeat, they are FULLY BUFFED before they even register you.

it's stupid.

Just because everybody is sayings its all great and fun i'm going to agree with you Kung Fu Orc, that place is a b**ch.
The worst part being those Mephisto looking creatures spamming with bolts of KD.

kenpen

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Re: Demonologists
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2009, 05:13:05 PM »
I think the Demonologists are fine the way they are. They can be annoying if you don't prep or make mistakes, but in general it's the only place a group of high levels can go and have a stomping good time without DMs running things. Bring a balanced party, and it's not so hard. The KD bolts are annoying sometimes, but if you've got friends there it's not always a death sentence.