Author Topic: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer  (Read 8518 times)

ethinos

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2009, 12:48:02 AM »
It will work a litlle differently here due to the lack of party grouping, but would essentially give the cleric an aura that provides friendlies a regeneration effect for a limited time. Feats always tend to focus on being a boon to the individual, which is why I am a bit unhappy that this affects others as well.
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Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2009, 12:54:57 AM »
....because 9th level spells are a long way away. The earliest you can cast them is at  level 17.  Also, you need an uber wisdom score of 19 to be able to cast them, not every cleric will reach such lofty heights. The revised 3rd edition will always be my favorite, because there are always multiple ways to build your character and still be able to do what you want to be able to do. Feats are the main reason why you aren't obligated to throw every ability score raise into the main ability score for your class. This allows you to create random seen or played builds, instead of every cleric running around with a wisdom in the 99th percentile of the general populous.
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failed.bard

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2009, 12:59:34 AM »
She means the heal spell is gained at 9th level, which it is for healing domain clerics.  11th for normal clerics, 13th for druids.

Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2009, 01:52:19 AM »
Ah, my mistake then, rant on then!  I was a little miffed at the suggestion that something was redundant because of a 9th level spell. Obviously that was not the case at all :lol:  I was obviously thinking of the 9th level spell "mass heal"

edit:    And reading her post again, it is dead obvious that we were talking about character level and not spell level. Don't know how i made that mistake "doh!"

second edit:    To make this post more of a relevant post and less spam, I just want to say that the more options that you have in feats, the more variety we can all achieve in our builds, and just because this feat or any other proposed addition wouldn't fit a typical build or suit the min/maxer style, doesn't mean it has no place in the game. In my campaign, I have a couple of players that take feats or spells from obscure places in the tabletop game, and I as DM see no reason why they would want it, but later when they use them, it gives me pleasure to be able to say that I hadn't seen a situation solved by using THAT before. Keeps the game fresh, and gives each character more of a uniqueness. And there is a ton, I mean a ton of spells or feats that would be great in NWN in my opinion.

    From my perspective, the biggest head-scratcher is in the omission of the standard core rules feat "Combat reflexes" which is like the dexterous version of "Great Cleave" in a way but requires foes to be victim of attacks of opportunity. It is a generic general non-class specific feat with no prerequisites, so it would be available to everyone, and is on the list of Fighter bonus feats too. It grants additional attacks of opportunity per round for every DEX mod bonus. So a dexterity of 18 would grant 4 additional attacks of opportunity per round, and also, by taking this feat the character can perform AoOs even while flat footed. It is a great feat for high dexterity melee types, and it is in the game to balance these builds combat effectiveness. The omission of this feat alone is a nerfing of the rouge class. The rogue in 3.5E is an effective combatant primarily because they win the AoO battle, giving up almost none to opponents and taking advantage of nearly every AoO by the opponent. Why bioware didn't implement it, I honestly can not understand.  I wish so bad that my character had this feat, she would hold her own much more in situations where she becomes surrounded. This is just one example really. There are a ton of additions that could be made, and if the developers ever want a list of suggested feat additions, I would love to propose a good list for them, starting with "Combat Reflexes".

There is an argument to be made that one of the reasons WotC made 4E was because many felt (and its partially true) that with each additional feat and spell that was added with the supplements the 3.5E game slowly became unbalanced. It is every DMs number one priority when deciding to allow a new feat, class, spell, or race into their game that it will not disrupt the game-play balance. I would love to see our game include missing aspects from the 3.5E rules set, having Core options omitted creates holes in the game balance and the ability to put a certain concept in play. I love more options to mold characters with, who doesn't, but I believe that the priority should start with feats that are selectable to all, especially core rules options.

Any of you fellow DnD nerds ever noticed a missing feat like "Combat Reflexes" that would be easily implemented?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 04:00:28 AM by TreMiki99 »
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LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2009, 08:12:46 AM »

combat reflex would be great and all but it decmiates the balance every one would get it and things like rats would never ever be a threat ever again.

Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2009, 08:40:50 AM »
Everyone would not get it, why would you choose it if you had a DEX of 10-13, it would not add enough to use a feat on it. It is a much needed feat for certain builds, and it is vanilla DND, perfectly balanced. It should have been in NWN to begin with, there is no obvious reason why its missing. I'm used to the real game, so the first time a selection of feats came up in NWN, I was scrolling down to find it, never thinking it wasn't in the game, and a decade later, i still don't understand why it is not in the game.
Rats for example, would be less dangerous to a high dexterous character yep. But every feat makes a character more capable to defeat enemies in one way or the other. Just like with great cleave, it is only going to destroy rats if the AB is high enough to hit, you still have to hit. For example, My 5th level Barbarian with a huge strength and a 24 AC still swings and wifts enough that he has to run from rats when they start to surround him, when you only have one attack per round and there are 8 or 9 rats, they are killing you faster than you can kill them. Having a few AoOs with your Ranger or Rogue or Dex Fighter would just help a little, they would still be dangerous to a low HP, low AB character, even more so than to my barbarian. It would just give another way to play the game. Fighters and Rangers and Rogues are probably the most nerfed classes we have, this feat benefits these 3 classes the most, bringing more balance. You cant convince me that having combat reflexes would stop people from using plate mail and carrying a shield. But if people did do that it would be easily stopped if you wanted, by making the feat only active if wearing light or medium armor and no shield, but that would be a nerfing. The non magic classes need to be brought back into balance, so I don't really see how you think Combat Reflex would be unbalanced. Having no magic gear nixes the balance of the ruleset, having less of some effective combat feats for certain builds just compounds the issue.
The feat is only game changing to characters with a higher dexterity than strength, and it is balanced because characters with a higher dexterity use smaller weapons that deal less damage than the strength based builds. Not every fighter is a muscle bound, walking armor clad,  axe or sword swinging tank. The whirling dervish combatant is fun to play too, and "Combat Reflexes" exist as a main component of this build in 3.5E. It made it through the revision from 3E to 3.5E unchanged so it passed the balance check more than once. If a level 10 fighter has both a high DEX and STR and swings a greatsword and has both great cleave and combat reflexes then more power to him. Fighters are supposed to be able to pull off combat maneuvers that other classes cant do.  It fits our setting and adds to the diversity too. I feel bad now for bringing up this feat in this thread since its off topic, probably should of opened a new thread about it, but maybe we should even consider a thread to post ideas such as this.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 10:13:10 AM by TreMiki99 »
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tzaeru

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2009, 05:17:59 PM »
It will work a litlle differently here due to the lack of party grouping, but would essentially give the cleric an aura that provides friendlies a regeneration effect for a limited time. Feats always tend to focus on being a boon to the individual, which is why I am a bit unhappy that this affects others as well.

..Actually I was thinking of a Targetable feat rather. Making it aura effect is silly. -.O

Instead it uses 1 (or 2) turn undeads per use and gives a single target regeneration of 3 per rounds or turns / level of cleric.


EDIT, adding: "Heal" spell alone is in my experience not enough to keep folks constantly healed and not something you'll get very soon - at least not on a slower leveling pace, where reaching level 11 usually takes many months. Think my fastest leveling character took a good 4 to 5 months to it.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 06:16:57 PM by tzaeru »

ethinos

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2009, 12:18:02 AM »
Actually, the way it should be implemented is similar to a turn undead. You hit your feat and anyone within the radius of the turn undead effect would start regenerating. However, can't some clerics get up to or over 10 turns per rest? That is a lot of regenerating and would diminish the need for saving spots for healing, rather than promoting more healing of the normal sort. I think it would be an overly powerful feat.
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tzaeru

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2009, 12:26:12 AM »
Actually, the way it should be implemented is similar to a turn undead. You hit your feat and anyone within the radius of the turn undead effect would start regenerating. However, can't some clerics get up to or over 10 turns per rest? That is a lot of regenerating and would diminish the need for saving spots for healing, rather than promoting more healing of the normal sort. I think it would be an overly powerful feat.

Most clerics end up with around 11 turn undeads, more depending if they are Divine Feat based. But then, I anyway think chars get too many feats here - Rather than making individual character unique, it makes every character able to pick -everything-.

And personally my opinion is that the way it should be implemented is making it single target feat. If it's rounds/level, consider that one use of it is 30 hitpoints healed for a level 10 cleric, over 10 rounds. And if he has many turn undeads, he likely also has the Divine Feats and thus can't use that much Divine Shield and Divine Might.

Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2009, 01:13:11 AM »
Quote
But then, I anyway think chars get too many feats here - Rather than making individual character unique, it makes every character able to pick -everything-.
I read you sharing this sentiment a lot, and I must say that I disagree. I just don't feel like every character is walking around with the same feats. The way you make it sound, everyone is walking around with power attack, cleave, great cleave, expertise, dodge, mobility, spring attack, and whirlwind attack etc. You know what I mean. I have 3 characters that have gained significant levels to use the extra feats, and none of them even share one feat alike. I do agree with having more of the feats in the game that are supposed to be in the game and can be implemented. I think it would go along way toward making characters even more unique. I know it would be asking alot of updating work on the server from the dev team, and so I don't know if we will ever see it.
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Kung Fu Orc

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2009, 01:26:48 AM »
If we're talking about Ravenloft feats where's the love for fighters? I wanna see Jaded, Back to the Wall, Deadman Walking, etc...

Back to the Wall (General)

You are at your best when your situation is at it's worst. The minions of evil may overhwlem you, but the gods be damned if you don't tke a few of them down with you.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +2
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls and to armor class when you are at one quarter or less of your maximum hitpoints
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 01:31:50 AM by Kung Fu Orc »

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Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2009, 08:21:49 AM »
All this talk about feats, has got me wanting a list of feats in use on the server, is there a comprehensive list published anywhere? If one exists, I haven't found it. I would also love a list of changes made from the standard NWN mechanics. I want to compare what we use with how it compares with PNP, because I know PNP by heart and I need to better educate myself on how the mechanics were translated into NWN, what is unique to NWN, and especially what is missing from NWN. Can any of you point me in the right direction? I have all of the documentation for vanilla NWN, but I'm aware we are running many unique mechanics. While I'm at it, I want to research the spell list too.
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Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2009, 09:04:45 AM »
Thank you sir, there aren't nearly as many changes to spells as I had thought...

So I am reading that no new spells have been added to our server that are not in vanilla NWN, just changed to work better for balance, is that right?
Also, I know we have "Soothing Presence" as one example of feats added to the vanilla feats lists, do we have a complete list of what has been added? I know Søren confirmed earlier in this thread that they had scripted in additional feats...
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Kaspar

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2009, 09:20:27 AM »
They have added in additional feats, but I'm not sure if they have an actual list somewhere. May want to PM Soren here on the forums asking.

Also, far as I know, they haven't added in any extra spells.

boompowclash

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2009, 10:05:19 AM »
New spells...Like Alter Self?!?!!? (which would make high level druids and Fey'ri happy, too)

 :offtopic:

Kaspar

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2009, 10:07:57 AM »
New spells...Like Alter Self?!?!!? (which would make high level druids and Fey'ri happy, too)

 :offtopic:

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boompowclash

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2009, 10:30:08 AM »
I nominate this whole thread for Systems Wishlist suggestions, which should be to the point and crusade-free.

That way the Developers can pick what they like.

 :deal:

Kaspar

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2009, 10:35:38 AM »
.. Alright. Nothing in this thread was a "Crusade", so stop making it out to be.  :roll:

LoLJohnFerro

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2009, 10:51:01 AM »
Deadman walking my favortie feat eva...
lets get that one.
Dead Man Walking [General]
After a near-fatal brush with the horrors that lurk in the world’s shadows, you know you are living on borrowed time.
Benefit: Upon making a successful Fear or Horror check, you receive a +2 to all saving throws and skill checks for the duration of the encounter due to the icy calm with which you face mortal danger; the recognition that everyone dies sometime can sometimes be a source of strength

Unbreakable Will [General]
The character has a strong sense of dedication to duty and to what he or she believes is right or wrong.
Benefit:Whenever the character is subjected to torture, drugs, or even supernatural forces for the purpose of coercion or information extraction, he or she enjoys a +2 situational bonus to the WILL save to resist the effects. The feat also provides a +2 bonus to attempts at resisting Intimidate skill checks.

Incorruptible Soul [General]
You can turn assaults on your mind into assaults on the body.
Prerequisites: CON 13+, CHA 13+, Iron Will, Indomitable.
Benefit: When you would be affected by a mind-influencing spell or effect, you can choose to take physical damage instead. You take 1d6 points of damage per spell level of the effect. This damage is automatic and not subject to DR or SR. You may not use this feat if you are unconscious. You may use this feat a number of times per day equal to half your level.

Animal Form [General]
You can assume a form of any natural animal you choose.
Benefit: The character has the ability to assume the form of a single animal of your choice, but you may only choose one form. The form must be a natural animal, not magical beasts, abominations, or other creatures. In this form the character retains full sentience and may use the animal’s base abilities as well. If the animal’s form permits it, the character may be able to use abilities such as feats and spell casting. This animal form lasts one minute per character level. The change may be performed a number of times per day equal to the character's Charisma Modifer, to a mininum of once per day. (Unlike a druid's shapechange ability, the character's equipment and clothes do not merge with the animal form.
Special: Others might mistake the character for a lycanthrope and might try to kill him or her.

These seemed like great ones.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:00:47 AM by john ferro »

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2009, 11:00:25 AM »
.. Alright. Nothing in this thread was a "Crusade", so stop making it out to be.  :roll:

It may not be a crusade, but it certainly is a wish list. 
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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2009, 11:01:20 AM »
.. Alright. Nothing in this thread was a "Crusade", so stop making it out to be.  :roll:

It may not be a crusade, but it certainly is a wish list. 

A wish list is fun.  :D

Calling peoples suggestions a "Crusade" is not.

Emomina

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Re: Suggestion: Divine Feats, Sacred Healing & True Believer
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2009, 11:01:33 AM »
I'm sure this whole idea of new feats or spells has been had several times before I would assume, but it probably makes Søren and anyone else that would be involved cringe at the thought of implementing them. I'm a big proponent of adding some spice to all the builds that you can dream up with new options though. In the months since I found this server, it has been a real joy to play here, with the only exception being the way some people want to nerf abilities, spells, and feats for the sake of "balance". I would rather efforts to modify game-play mechanics go to adding to the options to create balance rather than tearing down existent ones. Quite simply, 3.5E should be where we look for ideas on whether something should be nerfed, because the revised 3rd edition of the game was play-tested and play-tested until it was as balanced as you can achieve. The only modifications to existent rules should be to bring the Ravenloft rule changes to spells, and monsters, and abilities. Once I have a complete list put together, I am going to compare what is in the game to what isn't, and what differences may exist. If there is still interest in this topic (of making additions to the feat list) at that point, I might open a thread for a think tank so that we as players can come up with a small, clean list of additions that we would like to see implemented. Then like any good dnd players, we would bring it up to our DM(s) respect the judgments of our DM(s) to know what is best for the campaign(PW) that they want to run.

If we have enough player support for making additions, we really should put together an organized, concise list. Instead of several threads with ideas being thrown around that never really get off the ground.

P.S. If it sounds like I am eager to have an organized discussion on change requests, its because it is what I do for a living, its hardwired into me.

Edit: I propose we come up with a standardized template to use when making a feat or spell suggestion, that includes fields for title, what classes/races benefits the most, description as it appears in the source material, the source that it comes from, how it might be implemented into NWN, and why it would be a good addition.
I think if you can come up with good answers to all of those fields then it would be a good candidate to discuss.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2009, 11:32:45 AM by TreMiki99 »
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