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Author Topic: What is Witchcraft?  (Read 4994 times)

Bad_Bud

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What is Witchcraft?
« on: May 17, 2009, 03:30:51 PM »
There will be some new laws being put into effect soon, one of which states that public displays of magic use in and around Vallaki are now illegal, but this raises the question: what is witchcraft?

Casting a spell is a no brainer, that's witchcraft, but what about wielding a magical item, or drinking a magical potion?

Personally, I would consider chugging a potion containing a spell to be witchcraft, but what does everyone else think?

bloodandsoil

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2009, 03:44:48 PM »
If chugging a magical potion is illegal then maybe the Vallaki authorities should go shut down the cauldron place north of the nobles district

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2009, 03:47:46 PM »
If frogs start raining or the crops are bad, i dont see why Maegan wouldnt be targeted as the reason of all their problems. The mob rules.

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Iconoclast

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2009, 03:55:58 PM »
Barovians do accept certain potions, in a similar parallel to how they differentiate between cleric "magic" and the arcane.  Nell has left certain herbalism potions with the Vallaki Garda on numerous occasion.  Those potions known to be created by a herbalist that they at least tolerate, even with a grudge at times, which have healing and restorative properties, have been allowed. 

Nell would leave potions of restoration and other healing potions with the Vallaki Garda when treating garda who are struggling to recover from vrolok bites and other monsterous inflictions.

Other potions though would likely be viewed as criminal, once witchcraft in city limits is outlawed.  Drinking a potion of invisibility would likely be considered a violation of law. 

Bad_Bud

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2009, 03:58:03 PM »
What about see invisibility?  I think that's just as bad.

If someone is pointing at something and screaming "invisible witch!", you have no way of knowing whether they got that effect from a potion of cast it themselves.

Iconoclast

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2009, 04:17:56 PM »
I haven't been in game for a while, but I've read on the forum I think that there is no longer a spell effect with the 'see invisiblity' potion. 

What happens in a lot of situations, is that a lesser of two evils is overlooked.  If you have a powerful witch storming through Vallaki or the outskirts, and the vallaki garda have no chance of survival without the aid of folks who use things they normally frown upon, they often have no choice but to focus on the real threat at hand.

Plus, there are ways to notice an invisible "witch" without the use of witchcraft.  As far as the garda knows, someone invisible was noticed just the way they themselves might notice someone invisible without the use of 'see invisibility.'  And if someone is screaming "witch," unless if that garda is green and naive, he'd be wiser to prepare himself for the potential of their really being a dangerous witch. 

Also keep in mind, that Barovians have a greater fear of witchery than hate for it.  When I played a Barovian garda for a brief time years ago, if someone screamed "witch!," he was moving in the opposite direction.  In a dm event, my garda was tasked with heading to a house in Vallaki with some outlanders to where a known drow witch was said to be in hiding.  My garda's hands were shaking so bad during the encounter that he was basically useless when in melee with a witch. 

Barovians, and I imagine most garda, would be more inclined to avoid someone using witchcraft than having to arrest them.  It would take a rare Barovian to have the stomach and nerves to be in the business of arresting witches. 

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2009, 04:59:40 PM »
What about see invisibility?  I think that's just as bad.

If someone is pointing at something and screaming "invisible witch!", you have no way of knowing whether they got that effect from a potion of cast it themselves.

Since see invisible has not more effect, that's a moot point.

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Mcskinns

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 06:11:42 PM »
What about see invisibility?  I think that's just as bad.

If someone is pointing at something and screaming "invisible witch!", you have no way of knowing whether they got that effect from a potion of cast it themselves.

Since see invisible has not more effect, that's a moot point.

not moot... one one hand you have an invisible witch... on the other hand you have someone claiming to see invisible witches... even without the vfx, they are either crazy, paranoid, the target of some witches magic, or someone who is touched by their own witchery since they can see the unseen...

I'd say burn him just to be safe



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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 06:22:25 PM »
Of course in the chaos of something like a prison break, it's hard to realize that someone can see the invisible witches... besides, the savvy can just claim to hear them.

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ThAnswr

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 07:12:50 PM »
If chugging a magical potion is illegal then maybe the Vallaki authorities should go shut down the cauldron place north of the nobles district

Or the Guards should stop using potions. 
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Bad_Bud

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2009, 07:21:14 PM »
No matter how it looks or is justified in game, I think any item that actually casts a specific spell (potions have a spell and a caster level!) should be considered magic.  You have to draw the line somewhere, and I think it should be drawn there.  Otherwise you leave the door open and you're going to have a lot of arguments in the future.

ThAnswr

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 07:26:05 PM »
What about see invisibility?  I think that's just as bad.

If someone is pointing at something and screaming "invisible witch!", you have no way of knowing whether they got that effect from a potion of cast it themselves.

Since see invisible has not more effect, that's a moot point.


not moot... one one hand you have an invisible witch... on the other hand you have someone claiming to see invisible witches... even without the vfx, they are either crazy, paranoid, the target of some witches magic, or someone who is touched by their own witchery since they can see the unseen...

I'd say burn him just to be safe

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 07:28:28 PM by ThAnswr »
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Dhark

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 07:42:50 PM »
Nice to hear this news , this means no more light emitting items or flaming weapons I hope .

Bad_Bud

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 07:55:09 PM »
That's what this whole discussion is about.

Amon-Si

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2009, 07:58:13 PM »
Barovians, and I imagine most garda, would be more inclined to avoid someone using witchcraft than having to arrest them.  It would take a rare Barovian to have the stomach and nerves to be in the business of arresting witches. 

If only it were so. I've yet to encounter a single guarda who actually shows any fear of Rane, all she gets is anger and attitude. If there are new anti-witchcraft laws coming in... well, it might get messy.

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2009, 08:47:12 PM »
Dragomir is quite cautious of magic. Which is why he takes pains to not piss witches off in the first place. He has bad memories of being set on fire repeatedly by Carrib. In broad daylight. Inside an inn.

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Metal_ash

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2009, 09:49:32 PM »
A Guard of Vallaki and fear of magic, well a few days in the outskirts and that garda have seen most there is to see when it comes to loons, witches and other crazy people and outlanders :lol:.
A new guard sure fears magic i assume and so most of them do, them more experienced may have change the fear to something more like a respected fear..a more controlled fear for it.
Also to keep in mind is that how fear is showed is as different from one person to another as the situations that provides it, one may panic in fear while the other turn berserk and try to remove what ever cause the fear by force while the other try to controll it and keep the calm.
FEAR have many faces here indeed ;)

Anyways, on topic... I would say them spells that actually still have visible effects should be considered witch craft and of course casting to.

If you do drink for example a bulls strength potion you get just at the time you drink it a visible effect as if it was cast, something i do not think really should be there from drinking a potions, but rules say what you see is what you get...so drinking a potion in front of a guard and get a cloud of colour over you head just when you drink it may lead to "questions".

Just my thought on the topic.
Cheers.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 09:55:34 PM by Metal_ash »

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2009, 11:46:45 PM »
Dying up cows or souring the milk should be added, also certain known witches framilures such as black cats and toads. I think making women barren should be alowed though.

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arrmuth

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2009, 01:02:53 AM »
I would say potions get treated the same as spells,if its not a healing or restorative potion its bad.

DM Macabre

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2009, 01:37:21 AM »
As a rule of thumb:

Everything magical, be it clerical or other magic, is viewed as witchcraft by the populace. Healing magic is just more or less accepted, because it heals ;) - but nevertheless it is viewed suspiciously.

ethinos

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2009, 02:35:48 AM »
What is witchcraft? Honestly, I think the whole fear of witches thing was caused by unexplainable happenings. Fear of the unknown is what causes people to start blaming supernatural beings. If something cannot be rationally explained, a witch was probably behind it.

A formerly healthy cow was found dead without any visible reason. A witch did it.

A barn starts on fire. A witch did it.

A person dying of a wasting disease suddenly is healthy and fit the next day. A witch did it. (Miracles belong to religious folks, and Barovians aren't religious. They are superstitious.)

Anything that causes any kind of supernatural effect should be considered witchcraft. Even strong healing potions would probably be considered witchcraft, because wounds don't just close up and disappear instantly in the natural world.

Heck, I'd also not even use alchemist fire on a weapon, since someone could claim you used witchcraft to set the blade ablaze.
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Falcifer

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2009, 06:01:25 PM »
Ho yeah. Even those alchemy vials that cast light? I'd be suspicious. How's it glowing? Chemical whatnot? Witchy.


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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2009, 12:16:58 AM »
And you think that they would revolt agenst a particularly witchy person all that happens are people mumbling witch... or something like that Words show more then actions!

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2009, 11:49:28 AM »
Revolting generally works poorly against a prepared 'witch'.

All it takes is a fireball. Or two.

And I should know!

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Vespertilio

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Re: What is Witchcraft?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2009, 01:44:35 PM »
Not entirely off topic but perhaps to the side of it perhaps is what does illegal mean as per punishments and consequences in game when this changes. Also what happens to those who are known as witches such as certain witches who have in the past covertly helped the Garda or are simply well known as being witches or cultists?  Hopefully the consequences won't mean pcs languishing in the citadel for months real time but other, more creative solutions such as breaking fingers which are not allowed to be set and then heal naturally in a contorted manner that makes delicate arcane gestures difficult (with a suitable arcane spell failure to represent that) the healing of which would result in an even worse punishment for the witch and the cultist who healed them.

I agree that anything other than simple, minor healing and curatives such as neutralize poison, disease or lesser restore to be quite witchy.  Drinking a potion of neutralize poison could be seen as an antidote to said poison and might not be considered as suspicious as other potables, I'd consider neutralize poison less witchy than even a minor cure potion because of the effects.

If it glows and isn't a torch or a candle, that's pretty suspect.

I would say that as discussed many times in the past with a seeming consensus reached that Bard Song is not witchcraft in and of itself.   It would be great if the floating notes over the bard's head were removed since I think it was agreed upon that they are not visible, you do not really see little white musical notes issue from the bard's third eye.  Any bard spell aside from minor healing and neutralize poison and the like, and of course curse song, would be quite witchy indeed.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 04:42:08 PM by Vespertilio »


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