Author Topic: Fear effects  (Read 6756 times)

Kaspar

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2009, 05:05:16 AM »
The issue raised is "Is it realistic?" though. Often enough a panicked person won't stand in one spot frozen, they'll run around with hands raised in the air. That doesn't mean their going to go and run into walls, corner themselves, or run right back into the middle of monsters that feared them in the first place. If some sort of compromise can be made with the spell, that won't end up with it being abused, that could rid the standard effect with fear would be a decent change in my opinion.

Clicked post too soon. Fear isn't supposed to be an "I win" button, rather a "Crowd control" spell. Disable a few party members so the rest can be picked off. If a character is dodging around things then that's what anybody would do. Try to get the hell away from whatever is chasing him.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 05:07:14 AM by Vasile »

engelfire

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2009, 05:16:25 AM »
well it could be cool if your fear behaviour would depend on a roll thats been made upon getting fear'd. that way, something like these kind of effects could take place (these are just suggestions)

depending on the roll vs some skill/ ability mod/ or something (hey perhaps against discipline? )

- Fear'd person will go into a berzerk kind of state after seeing their friend getting brutally killed or so, this person would just bash the monster for the duration effect, unable to do anything else

- Victim would panick and flee automaticly towards the nearest exit, perhaps it could be scripted to travel there automaticly? Little like npc's waltz around?

- Victim would fall into a lock-down state, he or she would block out everything thats happening around him/her and just stand still

- Then there could be that random direction, total panic running
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 05:18:11 AM by engelfire »
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failed.bard

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #52 on: July 07, 2009, 06:10:03 AM »
That's more the effects of confusion, Engelfire, but it's an interesting suggestion.  Maybe if they took the confusion spell as a base, and tweaked it so 50-75% of the time you ran around, part of the time you simply stood there, and occasionally (5-10% maybe) you lashed out at whatever was nearest.  As long as it was still largely skewed to run/stand immobile, I think it would be worth trying.

engelfire

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #53 on: July 07, 2009, 06:40:34 AM »
ah yeah you are right  :oops:

in any case, fear has many faces and some variations to that current fear would be nice
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Minstrel

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #54 on: July 07, 2009, 06:54:35 AM »
-15 AB
75% Spell Failure
Flat Footed (If possible, else just -6 Dex or -3 Dodge AC)

Melee people can't fight properly, casters are too scared to cast, you lose your ability to defend yourself as well as you should.

A tank can still hold the line whilst feared, but his fear will prevent him from being as effective.

Can't think of any class that would still be able to function normally under these conditions.

Knas

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 07:32:28 AM »
Problem still remains, you're still in control only with penalties. You can run around in circles dodging enemies until it wears off, and that's hardly how you'd react while panicked.

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #56 on: July 07, 2009, 08:07:45 AM »
From nwnwiki

Quote
Fear (spell)
Spell level: bard 3; sorcerer/wizard 4
Innate level: 3
School: necromancy
Descriptor: fear
Components: verbal, somatic
Range: medium (20 meters)
Area of effect: large (5 meter radius)
Duration: 1 round / level
Save: will negates
Spell resistance: yes
Additional counterspells: remove fear

Description: Affected creatures are consumed with mind-numbing fear that overrides all other actions. The affected creatures run away from all those they do not consider allies.

RUN AWAY, not in every possible direction and potentially into traps, more monsters, a bugged area behind a doorway etc while the monster is still beating on you

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peluscious

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #57 on: July 07, 2009, 08:12:20 AM »
Of course there can be exploits.
Let's hope people don't do it. Anyway, its better than the way it is now.

boompowclash

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2009, 01:23:46 PM »
Problem still remains, you're still in control only with penalties. You can run around in circles dodging enemies until it wears off, and that's hardly how you'd react while panicked.

...not without being exhausted!  Yay!  It's good.

Kaspar

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #59 on: July 07, 2009, 04:17:54 PM »
Problem still remains, you're still in control only with penalties. You can run around in circles dodging enemies until it wears off, and that's hardly how you'd react while panicked.

If I was panicked, I'd be running around and avoiding whatever was scaring me.  :shock:

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #60 on: July 07, 2009, 04:50:29 PM »
NWN tends to feel that the most effective way to escape the object of your fear is to bounce around, inevitably heading towards more enemies, before running back to the first, then kind of running away some more into a wall.

Fear in this sense is the act of self-preservation. You do everything you can to keep yourself alive, caring not in the slightest about how much pain and suffering it brings to people you call your close friends. Paladins are immune for good reason, because they can't even consider doing that.

'Is it cowardice for a falling man to grab at a rope? No. It is instinct. And you will see that every man will succumb to this. Resistance is impossible, it is as much a part of you as your blinking eyes, your breathing lungs, your beating heart. You would sacrifice whatever you needed for that safety.'

darkpriest

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #61 on: July 07, 2009, 04:53:17 PM »
Problem still remains, you're still in control only with penalties. You can run around in circles dodging enemies until it wears off, and that's hardly how you'd react while panicked.

If I was panicked, I'd be running around and avoiding whatever was scaring me.  :shock:

It's not merely panicked.. it's close to insane panic...there is no place for rational thinkig... you are running blind as in amok... you would try to climb a slippery wall... scratch through a wooden wall, etc.  It's like madness... your mind is turned off.

To understand what a real fear is, you would have to do some studies, but best examples of how people act irrationally when in very stressing and frightening situation is when they are about to have a dangerous car accident or some crash. Some freeze in place, some do stupid things which can do even more harm and there are many other examples where it clearly shows that the mind is turned off and such a paniced person does not think rationally and loses an orientation in a terrain.

Thoraion

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #62 on: July 08, 2009, 04:39:39 AM »
*sigh*
That's the kind of course of discussion that usually leads to no solution.
Is there any problem with agreeing upon the simple statement that "fear" results in "avoiding the source of danger"?
After all, this is still DnD - and the game has rules for fear as well as the supernatural or magical fear.

I see no reason to complicate it even more - if the mechanics mirror the rules as they are, i would be happy with it.

Roleplaying is no justification to roll for successfully going to the bathroom after all... And neither do you need rules or complex game mechanics for it.
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Minstrel

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #63 on: July 08, 2009, 06:38:12 AM »
I see no reason to complicate it even more - if the mechanics mirror the rules as they are, i would be happy with it.

The current mechanics don't mirror the rules. In PnP if you're feared, your character would, barring anything dangerous in the way, probably run directly to the door they came in through until they thought they were safe.

In NWN, you'll probably run towards the door you came in through, then run sideways a bit, then run past the monster that feared you, getting an AoO, then back towards the door a little, then get stuck in a wall and another AoO....

Thoraion

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2009, 07:57:22 AM »
The current mechanics don't mirror the rules.

Exactly. I should be more precise about that... i see no reason for changing anything beyond fixing the mechanics to suit the fear rules as they are intended to work.
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Minstrel

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #65 on: July 08, 2009, 08:23:11 AM »
Thing is, there's no way to reliably have a character run away from the danger without giving control to the player.

If control is given to the player, it's possible to ignore the RP factors and carry on fighting despite the Fear effect.

Hence, there needs to be a reason the character cannot continue effectively in combat, to keep the Fear effect, well, effective.

A reduction of AB and Spell Failure of some arbitrarily high amount would do this.

Kaspar

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #66 on: July 08, 2009, 08:52:56 PM »
Thing is, there's no way to reliably have a character run away from the danger without giving control to the player.

If control is given to the player, it's possible to ignore the RP factors and carry on fighting despite the Fear effect.

Hence, there needs to be a reason the character cannot continue effectively in combat, to keep the Fear effect, well, effective.

A reduction of AB and Spell Failure of some arbitrarily high amount would do this.

Just apply a daze effect on the character for the duration of the fear spell. They can't attack in any form, and they move at a walking speed. I doubt anybodies going to stick around for long with that.

Smitehammer

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2009, 11:13:54 PM »
Maybe daze without the slowness?  Just make you unable to attack or something?
Wouldn't the world be better off if we took nonsense more seriously?

Kaspar

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2009, 11:15:05 PM »
Maybe daze without the slowness?  Just make you unable to attack or something?

That would work too, and I'd prefer it.

Minstrel

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Re: Fear effects
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2009, 06:56:57 AM »
Yeah, I think retaining your speed is somewhat important.

After all it's 'Run away' not 'Calmly walk off'.