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Author Topic: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of  (Read 27064 times)

Purist

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2009, 03:15:43 PM »
Yes failed.bard.

But like I wanted to say, if we're talking about Gardas, who do NOT use magic potions, perhaps a healing once in a while, he has no chance. So I find that some visual effects shouldn't have been removed, for the sake of the average Garda.

A Garda won't drink haste neither true seeing, as far goes my knowledge about native Barovians.

Edit:  Christmas tree only provides the Garda with -depending in how extraordinary is the VFX- *Fine that bastard*  *Call reinforcements* or *Run for life with his tail between his legs*

Nonnative characters may drink as many as potions they please, unless they share some avoidance for magic like Barovians.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 03:21:45 PM by Natan'nael »

arrmuth

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2009, 05:08:16 PM »
i
Quote
I love that the effects are gone. Was in a dungeon the other day and with no glowing buffs and only a lantern it really felt more Ravenloftish.

thats hardly ravenloftish when you still have the freaking magic in your characters. if it were real ravenloftish, you wouldnt have all that magic and magical items in the first place



First off i said more Ravenloftish.
When your walking down a hallway with no blinkie eyes floating over your head, or any other effects,and the only thing you have going is light from a lantern the darkness around you seems more oppressive and frightening. It brings it more to life and gives a deeper sense of fear to the actual player, I found myself looking over my shoulder every now and then and that's how it should be when your playing Ravenloft. A good Ravenloft adventure leaves the PLAYER with the heebie jeebies.
 Ravenloft is not really a low magic setting, its more of a low key magic setting. Like any good Gothic horror things are hidden in the shadows,sometimes literally,and the magic is subtle and hidden to those who don't know to, or who don't want to, look for it. With the spell effects suppressed it does bring it more into line with the subtly of the world.

Smitehammer

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2009, 08:21:57 PM »
I'm glad some of the needlessly flashy effects were removed!  Thank you!
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Charon

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2009, 09:25:32 PM »
To toss in my slant, I like it a lot!

Less confusion when playing a guard on what to react on and what to shrug off, less unnecessary twinkling and glowing, more room for being scared of the unknown and so on and so forth.
I'd even vote for reduction of other visuals i.e. all the elemental wardings, clarity,lesser mind blank, bard song.

I don't think, that there are major problems arising from the removal. Finally people can see Jonathan and not a bunch of spells. Okay, you can' t tell if people see you or not.. I like it!
It really gives me a thrill when I approach a group of PCs with Jonathan that are hostile to me. Do they see me? will they attack me straight away? how can I be more careful? which way to flee when so..

Also I don't know if it really gives casters such an advantage? they made sure before to never be caught unbuffed and they will still be unbuffed after they rested. Before these changes PCs attacked by a caster had little to no chance to describe the attacker since they only saw a glowing something. Now there is a much bigger chance of being able to give precise descriptions, thus for the witch to be caught and burnt.

At the same time I agree with the Idea of having a spellcraft score related way to examine chars for spells (also brought up at "cleric magic in terms of witchcraft")


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engelfire

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2009, 03:16:05 AM »
hm, problem with spellcraft is that its fairly open to all classes. and if the dc for identifying the spells on someone is se too low, then everyone can see the effects on the caster, which then negates the whole removal thing in the first place hehe

even though its slow skill to improve for the noncasters, surprisingly many takes it since you get +1 against spells for every 5 rank of it


hm would it be possible to create it as a new spell completely? Perhaps player createn spell, theres quite many master wizards around who can create such a spell :)
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ethinos

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2009, 07:17:05 AM »
Spellcraft should not be used to determine what invisible/unseen spells are upon another person. Knowledge does not impart the ability to see the unseen. I also don't like the idea of an item being able to detect magic, and this is coming from a guy that plays mostly non-casters.
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Charon

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2009, 07:22:48 AM »
hm, problem with spellcraft is that its fairly open to all classes. and if the dc for identifying the spells on someone is se too low, then everyone can see the effects on the caster, which then negates the whole removal thing in the first place hehe

I don't think identifying a spell should mean reintegration of the VFX to that PC but more an edit to the message coming up when you examine an object.
This could be stagewise depending on the spellcraft score, e.g. from. no message at all --> some kind of magic --> quantitative description --> quantitative and qualitative description
The caster level of the spells could also contribute to the sellcraft score needed to see/ identify it. (So prot. from alignment should be easier to detect than premonition for example)
Maybe that could be linked to the message you get when someone casts a spell in the nearby ( XY casts unknown spell/ XY casts xxxxxx )

Would that be possible?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 07:40:33 AM by Charon »

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engelfire

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2009, 08:20:48 AM »
ah maybe i worded it out bit wrong but i didnt mean that on succesfull identifying you would see the effects. i ment more like a text telling you what you have learned,vague text at best

Quote
Knowledge does not impart the ability to see the unseen

Ethinos said it well, spellcraft should have nothing to do in detecting the magic on someone. Detecting magic on someone propably enters the realm of someform of psychic talents, premonitional powers or so. Spider sense anyone? becouse how do you exactly are going to determine that someone has casted a spell on themselfs? spellcraft is out of the question becouse its more of knowledge of spells and magic in whole, its not a radar.

magic does not leave a trail one can sense, some monster may have some senses developed that are reacting to magic but as far as i know none of the playable races have such traits. so it would be silly to make magic detectable by good roll on spellcraft

so imo new spell for detecting magic is the way to go. it could be modified see invis spell or so, but scripted so that when casted, those who have some spell on them would glow for a very little duration on some color (could use the glow from ghostvisage or ethereal visage). and the glow would only be visible for the caster.

heck you could prolly even add that to true seeing spell, so you wouldnt need to create a new one
« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 08:31:30 AM by engelfire »
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Aahz

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2009, 09:53:39 AM »
I don't know what it's like in 3rd edition but detect magic was a pretty trivial spell in 1st edition. All it did was let you see magical auras around objects and people and that was all you got, just he presence of magic. It was the same in 2nd edition but if you made a roll against the level of the caster then you got roughly what level the spell was. Then, if you made a separate roll against the level of the caster then you got the school of magic the spell was from. That was it though, you didn't ever get what exactly the spell was and had to deduce what it could be based on the information you got from the detect magic spell and what you saw from the spell effects. Figuring out what a newly encountered magic did and now to make it work was a long and dangerous process, even with Detect magic and Identify spells.
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2009, 10:11:07 AM »
People should remeber that divination spells & divination in general is totaly whack in Ravenloft ..

[peers into crystal ball] Whoa! Strahd is a vampire !

If you were to use such a spell , its results would be almost completely unreliable esp. in the case of detecting someone the mists covet as one of thier own.

On the good side I tend to feel a bit nekid hunting now & this adds to the fear (probably until I get used to it)

On the bad side I tend to get over worried about important buffs on comrades...have they expired? or havent they ?

I guess time will tell

ThAnswr

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2009, 12:59:11 PM »
If a spell needs to be created to counteract the fact that there are no visual effects on many spells, why not just have a rollback to the old system of visual effects?  Seems like it would be a helluva lot easier than reinventing the wheel again. 
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2009, 04:04:45 PM »
Well to be honest, I think the lack of spell effects is on spot.  I don't tend to worry too much about balance, I just play through it.  Nor do I really care what other people are doing, weather they are drinking potion after potion or not... but its definitely nice not having to see the spell effects.  I'm not concerned if I can see if that mage is buffed or not.  If I attack and lose, so be it.  At least its all IC and closer to 3.5 with each update.

One thing...

Shield spells!  Shield's of force are supposed to be invisible... Is its spell effect going to be removed?
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2009, 06:15:39 PM »
Well to be honest, I think the lack of spell effects is on spot.  I don't tend to worry too much about balance, I just play through it.  Nor do I really care what other people are doing, weather they are drinking potion after potion or not... but its definitely nice not having to see the spell effects.  I'm not concerned if I can see if that mage is buffed or not.  If I attack and lose, so be it.  At least its all IC and closer to 3.5 with each update.

One thing...

Shield spells!  Shield's of force are supposed to be invisible... Is its spell effect going to be removed?

Effects will be worked on again sometime next week.

Jana

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2009, 04:42:14 AM »
I dislike the removals, specially in Barkskin and stoneskin, since it killed my RP when barkskinned, actually I didn't even try to cast bark after the changes, didn't face a situation that required it, all I can say is that I personally won't walk buffed, apart bulls strength that is a need, the rest is just too cheesy IMO.

I RP Jana as having an itchy skin allergy from stoneskin and barkskin. The removal of this plus a lack of spellcraft just ruined one interesting tweak I've given her character because I will no longer know if this effect is on her or not.

Granted things are done for the whole and not the few but, I have to agree this is cheese. You cannot walk around with stone hard skin and not expect people to notice. I say no to these new/lack of effects.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2009, 05:53:35 AM »
That is not the definition of cheese.  :/

And I do not believe stoneskin is actually a hardening of your skin.  It's an abjuration spell, which implies a sort of magical barrier.

Barkskin, on the other hand, is transmutation and actually does make your skin harder.  Not magically absorbing damage.

I'd imagine stoneskin would be a lot like some of those weird materials we have these days.  As in, substances that go from soft and pliable to hard when a force is applied.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 05:56:35 AM by Bad_Bud »

ethinos

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2009, 06:01:50 AM »
I RP Jana as having an itchy skin allergy from stoneskin and barkskin. The removal of this plus a lack of spellcraft just ruined one interesting tweak I've given her character because I will no longer know if this effect is on her or not.

You can still RP that she's allergic to it. I'd relate this to the phantom limb syndrome that some folks have when a limb is amputated and still itches. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean its not there to your mind. Sometimes psychological things don't make sense. You'll still get a damage resistance token and mention of damage resistance on your character sheet. Maybe change the RP to being itchy when ANY lasting magical effect is placed on your person? *shrugs* I'd think it would personally probably feel like you were continuously full of static electricity. Hair on your arms/legs/etc raising, and what not.

Quote
Granted things are done for the whole and not the few but, I have to agree this is cheese. You cannot walk around with stone hard skin and not expect people to notice. I say no to these new/lack of effects.

You skin is hard as rock, not IS rock. There is a difference and no one will notice until you attack them and watch your sword bounce off. All these effects were put in by Bioware, not Wizards of the Coast or TSR. Bioware made the mistake of putting the effects in, in the first place.
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2009, 06:49:06 AM »
As far as I know your skin looks and acts normally with Stoneskin active, until you are attacked. It's strange, but then, it's magic. Nothing is stopping you from roleplaying little quirks just because there's no visible stone on your skin, though. :)

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2009, 04:07:03 PM »
I think people missed part of what I said... I cannot tell when someone has cast this spell on me or not. Jana's spell craft is nothing... if it doesn't show up the only indication I have is if I see the little icon in the corner which is buggy at best. Its not practically really for someone to tell me "Look in your charsheet to see if you have Damage Reduction" I'm not gonna play with my charsheet up the whole time blocking half the screen. It is also not very practical to give her a sudden allergy to all magic with a duration because then all magical items and what not.. which just hasn't happened over how long she's been around?

Furthermore stright out of the PHB 3.5

Quote
Barkskin (Transmutation)
Barkskin toughens a creatures's skin. The effect grants a +2 enchantment bonus to the creature's natural armor bonus...

Stoneskin (Abjuration)
The warded creature gains resistence to blows, cuts, stabs and slashes. The subject gains damage reduction 10/adamantine... Material Component: Granite and 250 G worth of diamond dust sprinkled on the target's skin

In both cases magic directly effects the skin therefore it does make sense an allergy can happen. Stoneskin granted has no meantion of physical change... of course I can't find a "greater stoneskin" spell in my PHB either but its in NWN all the same. On the other hand Barkskin does indeed make a physical change that should be visual and the only indication I would have is "AC increased" ....which is all the time with armor AC bonuses.

In any case, I disagree with the change, but I do acknowledge that it is based off the whole not with the few so I'm not going to argue it anymore.
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Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2009, 06:24:23 PM »
I don't mean to be rude, but I think I would find myself extremely surprised if someone was able to cast stoneskin (or any buff for that matter) on me without me realizing what had happened, even without spellcraft ranks.

The situation sounds hypothetical.

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2009, 07:23:46 PM »
Its not hypothetical. I left to get a glass of water, when I came back she had it on her and there was not a sign of it until she was hit by a monster. But whatever. And again and I know you people have RPed with her, its not all magic its only certain spells so please ask if you have to for clarification before being rude without intending to. Bad bud we use to adventure TONS, you know what I'm talking about so please don't make me to look like some sort of raving loonie.

Whatever though I just won't RP it anymore.
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2009, 07:26:24 PM »
Question: can something be done to the "lights" of the paralysis due to the assassin's death attack? It seems at this point... excessive :)
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2009, 10:22:05 PM »
Somewhat off topic (eventually), but all daze, stun, hold, and paralysis have effects.  These don't really have a PnP basis, but are more necessary since the character appearances don't reflect something that would be apparent if you were actually there looking at them.
  And since DA was brought up, and we're apparently moving to 3.5 PnP standards, concealment gives total immuntity to sneak and death attacks.

Grieyls

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2009, 05:18:48 PM »
Personaly, I like the recent changes to the spell effects. Keep them as they are now I say  :mrgreen:

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2009, 05:28:52 PM »
 I think for hold effects, there shouldn't be a whole... aura thing around them but just flashing red in and out.  Therefore it doesn't look silly/unrealistic but your still able to pinpoint who might be held. For as we all don't sit there and emote [His being held], or we can't exactly see the facial expressions of someones face.. should they be being held.

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ethinos

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2009, 09:31:45 PM »
I've been held once with Torgan courtesty of Vicho Cain, that charming fellow... I emoted that he struggled against the invisible bonds to no avail, face getting red and all that good stuff.
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