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Author Topic: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of  (Read 27068 times)

Bad_Bud

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New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« on: April 16, 2009, 05:17:49 PM »
Some people have already stated some of their opinions in regards to the new spell effects on some of the other threads, but were worried about wandering off topic.  Please feel free to express all of your concerns in this one!

Nefensis

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2009, 05:21:46 PM »
Fully buffed 24/7? That you can see it or not, really makes no sense.

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Aahz

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2009, 05:36:39 PM »
It all depends on how paranoid you are. 
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Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2009, 05:53:47 PM »
I'm not sure how less effects equate to being buffed 24/7.  Being buffed all the time is a lot of trouble to keep up with, and people have been doing it for ages.  For those trying to stay 100% ready all the time, invisibility will remain one of the spells they cast on themselves, so it's not like you'll be seeing them, and since you never saw them before, there's no change to your visible environment.

Personally, I think less visual effects will lead to less players upset over the too much magic issue, but that wasn't the aim of the current changes.  We were fulfilling the request of players to remove some visual effects.  It's not a new request, and people have been asking for a while, so we decided to give it a try.

failed.bard

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2009, 06:24:37 PM »
  Maria uses minimal buffs, even in a dungeon.  Fully buffed for her generally means PfE, mage armour, see invisibility, stoneskin, and either improved invisibility or GS.  Mage armour, PfE/PfG, and stoneskin last more than 24 hours for her extended, so there's really no reason for her to not have those buffs on constantly now.
  With my druid Lilindi I thing the only spells she has with a VFX now are elemental protections and spell resistance, and she's good for 14 hours on most of hers, non extended.  She also has no reason to not be fully buffed all the time now.
  That's not a complaint, I'm just mentioning it.

Vespertilio

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2009, 06:47:20 PM »
Too keep fully buffed wouldn't necessarily lead to mages more openly doing such any more than they are now, finger waving and chanting are still witchy and from a native point of view, so if buffs wear, depending on when and where it might be rather risky icly to put up more.  Some mages before this change would go around a corner or make some attempt to cast their spells discreetly, others didn't bother.  If you can't see the effects would lead to MORE suspicion in character to me.  If a native doesn't know much about witchery, has few to none ranks in spellcraft, icly how can they tell a mage cast stoneskin or just cursed someone, in theory. Too early to really say how it is going to affect things in game/in character but I'm optimistic that it could lead to interesting rp.  Since I have a rather sneaky character who like many mages uses invisibility a lot, the fact that I can't tell who has eyes floating around their head now, who might see through my pcs invisibility, means I'll have to be a lot more cautious icly and though a challenge still makes more sense to me than being able to look at half a dozen pcs in the outskirts at a glance and very oocly make mental notes of who has eyes and therefore is more likely to see my pc.


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Nefensis

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2009, 07:36:09 PM »
After doing a dungeon run on the new no spell effects, i find it a bit annoying to not see what spells are on me, I couldnt see if i had protection from evil and it annoyed me to have to ask in a semi ooc manner. Id like a way to SEE which spells i have on me, either in the character sheet etc.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2009, 07:37:58 PM »
As a temporary solution, you could scroll through your sheet to see if you had an immunity to mind effecting spells.

LawfulJoe

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2009, 07:40:36 PM »
Wouldn't there still be icons at the right hand corner indicating what you have in effect?

Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2009, 07:42:22 PM »
Yeah but sometimes our icons get all wacky and don't show up for some reason.  :/

Falcifer

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2009, 07:52:29 PM »
Really makes no sense to me. The visible effects being removed from spells that even have visible effects in PnP?

Would it be possible to get some kind of Detect Magic mechanic? Perhaps accessible through non-magical means, like an item that can detect magic on people?

Anyone under the effects of spells X, Y, Z gets pointed out as being magicked, and can be reacted to.

It seems that now in a Fighter vs. Wizard, the fighter can't even take advantage of the time a caster would need to prepare themselves, since they would likely already be.

Detect Magic would really add a lot, in my eyes. The witch hunters confront the ones buffed to the eyeballs, and we get less of it happening.

Nefensis

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2009, 08:05:40 PM »
Yes but i dont know most of them

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Heretic

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 08:07:53 PM »
Would it be possible to get some kind of Detect Magic mechanic?

I am not entirely certain, but I believe the examine tool you've got allows you to detect protections on someone, given you've got Spellcraft ranks and other variables; don't take my word for it though.

eyeofpestilence

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 08:12:53 PM »
To me it seems odd to remove the spell effects, even if one can use spell craft when examining a target, Barovians won't have the spell craft to see the effect.

The lack of visual effects is also a challenge to determine what buffs you have on your own PC, or if your playing the party buffer, though regretably that roll isn't that common. My initial reaction is I don't like it, but I'll give it a while longer before I say much more.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 08:14:36 PM »
Really makes no sense to me. The visible effects being removed from spells that even have visible effects in PnP?

 :?:

The idea was to stick to 3.5 as much as possible in making changes to spells, which means spells that do have visible effects in PnP would still have them here...

failed.bard

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2009, 10:27:37 PM »
Spell icons seem to be removed on entering any area that has the "You feel uneasy..." message.
  Party buffing may be an issue, it's too early to say on that, but since Maria tends to PfE, see invis, stoneskin, and imp invis in that order, it won't affect her.  I expect within a week the casters will have adjusted their buff orders to compensate.

Vespertilio

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2009, 10:41:52 PM »
Yeah but sometimes our icons get all wacky and don't show up for some reason.  :/


This happens to me a lot but the icon will re-appear to blink then fade when that particular spell wears off I've noticed.  Still it isn't a very long duration for the blink then fade icon effect that happens and can be easily missed.



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KoopaFanatic

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2009, 11:31:00 PM »
Protection from elements/resist elements seem to have their visual effects still, and I don't see any reference to a visual effect in the 3.5 SRD.  I'd suggest removing this one (or maybe replacing it with another more subtle effect) – it always struck me as an incredibly distracting and over the top visual for such a relatively minor spell...

In all I like the changes, though, especially for ultravision!  (That one is nearly as absurd as PfElements!)

shadymerchant

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2009, 01:18:50 AM »
I'm not really sure why there's no so much confusion. My wizard in his standard buff routine would cast 13 spells. Six of those, if you include improved invisibility, had visuals. This has been reduced to three. I still cast it all the same, and I'm still aware that I've cast PFE, stoneskin, and trueseeing on myself. I don't foresee any challenge in party buffing either, since it's fairly easy to know what you cast just seconds before, particularly when you have less of it to cast. The biggest change is not knowing if someone can see whether you're invisible or not. But there's a pretty easy way to do this, anyhow, if you really want to know.

failed.bard

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2009, 02:12:23 AM »
Probably not the thread for it, but the notes for bard song need to go next, if possible.

Bad_Bud

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2009, 02:32:42 AM »
Possible and easy.

ethinos

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2009, 02:42:47 AM »
Stat buffs have always been transparent. Mage armor, resistance, and more. Folks have been running around buffed forever. These are just a few more, and some like stoneskin are going to be apparent as soon as you attack the person. I don't see how this is really affecting the game besides upping paranoia, and bringing it more in line with PnP.

However, Detect Magic would be cool if it was something like Detect Evil.
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engelfire

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2009, 02:52:46 AM »
Detect magic that it available for all? no thank you.

But if someform of detection can be made and ONLY usable by those who really really REALLY have IC reason to have it, like mages for example. There is no point to give such ability to someone who just put few points in spellcraft to get that +1 against magics but other than that has no idea about magic and how it works and what can be done with it.
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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2009, 03:28:58 AM »
Technically to detect magic you would need the ability to cast magic first, as detect magic is a spell.

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Metal_ash

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Re: New Spell Effects, or the Lack Of
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2009, 03:40:33 AM »
I can be totally wrong here, but in 3.5 rules ain't there some visual effects really on spells like ultra vision and true sight? I mean if i don't remember wrong their eyes actually glows or as on ultra vision the eyes reflects the lights as on a cats eyes.
If so maybe a visual effect as about the eyes a monk gain through the perfect self feat may be in order?
For now it is to early to say how it effects the game balance to remove the visual effects but it sure is a good thing for the casters out there.
If spell craft could be used to detect magic, or a spell craft check be made by examine a target to see if there is some spells in work there could be a cool thing in my opinion.
None casters would for certain need to put a great effort in that skill to have a okay skill score in it as for most none casters it is not a class skill.